Fun with loot bug: Pictures Enclosed.

[Mad_Gerbil]

I think some of the TUT players fail to realize just how big of an impact the loot bug can have on a game. A picture is worth a thousand words, so here is a library of thought for you. (Note: Enjoy the bug while you can, it's gone in 1.3)

Clearly on a loot-centric map like Nostalgia the death of one or two thieves could generate enough loot for a thief to get the entire 1500 required to finish the map by camping one out of the way respawn point. I'm suprised the guards do as well as they do on maps like Flats and Nostalgia. :grin:


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot1a.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot1b.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot2a.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot2b.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot3a.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot3b.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot4a.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot4b.gif


http://www.rlf-haunts.com/images/signatures/loot5a.gif

[-=V12US=-]

Hah! pretty nifty :)

I wish I could dupe my money in real life like that. :D

[LaughingRat]

Server has to be set to 100% loot drop to accomplish that, though, and you have to have collected virtually all of it before dying.

Ironically, 0% loot dropped works more in the guard's favor in terms of how much loot can be made available in a map.

[[RLF]Kore (V)acLoed]

Only problem with the 0% is once they have collected all the can with out going for the lyre all but one person goes to the exit. Then the last person runs in takes lyre, smack smack smack they die. They respawn and win. Not that much fun.

Or as one person collect 500 loot (which is not hard) then go for lyre and die. Respawn in exit and you won.

[LaughingRat]

Yep. For now, the best compromise seems to be the 50% loot drop.

[NeoPendragon]

lol. I want to see someone do this on DP's map. :)

[Dalai]

lol, great screenies, Mad_Gerbil!

[modetwo]

As I've told you before, you're funny!!

[SNAFU]

Hah! pretty nifty :)

I wish I could dupe my money in real life like that. :D

You can. Just die a couple of times... :grin: :ebil:

[Stakhanov]

lol. I want to see someone do this on DP's map. :)
How about on yours ?... 1400 loot + trophy is nice too
No , to obtain ridiculous amounts of loot , just play Chief's map. Amongts the little flaws it has there is the 7000 fscking loot objective... I bet I'll reach the million loot before you ;)

I had similar bugs in Thiefmatch on Theatre , and still got the pics...

... and I was naive enought to think the respawning loot came from guards taking dropped loot ! :roll:

[Jered]

That reminds me of a bug during testing that rocked for the 56kers. You could frob an object really fast, and it would grab it 8-15 times due to lag. I was on dial up at the time, and it ROCKED!

[PhaeThorn]

That reminds me of a bug during testing that rocked for the 56kers. You could frob an object really fast, and it would grab it 8-15 times due to lag. I was on dial up at the time, and it ROCKED!
OMG !!! BUG USER !!!!

[MrEricSir]

This is proof that TUT teaches kids to invest in worthless pyramid schemes. Down with TUT! Down with investments! Down with kids!

[DarkProject]

i bet you can get like 100000 on my map....the loot available is like 7230 or something :sweat:

[Sneaky]

:lol: I liked the previous version of DarkProject's map...15,000 loot :twisted: :bj:

[Rodent]

Taking what was said about loot respawn bug into consideration, I was In a game of nostalgia, with my guild guarding.

I instructed them not to touch any loot dropped by thieves,and funnily enough, the thieves failed to reach the loot total and one left in disgust, after proclaiming his skill the round before. :guard:

[Buho]

Aaargh! Mad Gerbil beat me to it. I was gonna do that Sunday night, but I was so frikkin' tired! Kudos to the postwhore. :grin:

[Aggamemnon]

Known and tested thouroughly for a month, and now dalai has sorted it for 1.3, it was a loot pickup bug rather than a loot drop bug, and it also depends on lives, loot percentage for drop and how much time you have. On a private server with no resistance you could get as much as you like (which you did) but in a public server with only 1 or if your lucky 2 lives its not too much of a prob when it happens.
ESPECIALLY if the guards are good. which you are eh gerbs :guard:

[Mad_Gerbil]

Known and tested thouroughly for a month, and now dalai has sorted it for 1.3, it was a loot pickup bug rather than a loot drop bug, and it also depends on lives, loot percentage for drop and how much time you have. On a private server with no resistance you could get as much as you like (which you did) but in a public server with only 1 or if your lucky 2 lives its not too much of a prob when it happens.
ESPECIALLY if the guards are good. which you are eh gerbs :guard:

I happen to think this bug has had a major impact on the game.
When a noobie thief dies with 300 loot that means that 600 could spawn in some out of the way loot location. That is the difference between Uber Thief having to hit the treasury on Flats or a couple of other camped locations.

Imagine on Spider where a single thief gets into the apartments. He cleans them out and dies in the courtyard with the apartment still locked. Where do the thieves get the loot then? Do they have to get back into the apartment? NO!
Get respawn loot at the pool, grab the cup with a invis/speed/catwalk.. game over!

For the longest time I've been camping loot locations only to have a thief not show up. What has been happening is noobie thieves running out and grabbing 200 loot only to die and spawn 400. The careful Uber Thief now has to hit half as many locations.

That bug nearly cost us the scrimage on Sunday. You'll see that Buho claims to have grabbed 700 of 1500 loot by snatching respawning loot in the stables. (see bug board) I think that is an absolutely game smashing bug.

[LaughingRat]

I happen to think this bug has had a major impact on the game. When a noobie thief dies with 300 loot that means that 600 could spawn in some out of the way loot location. That is the difference between Uber Thief having to hit the treasury on Flats or a couple of other camped locations.

Only if loot drop is set to 100%, which most servers are not. The default is 50%. It is a problem, yes, but it's one you're blosing way out of proportion, with figures that are not in play, and with deliberately arranged setups, like the screenshots in your initial post.

For the longest time I've been camping loot locations only to have a thief not show up. What has been happening is noobie thieves running out and grabbing 200 loot only to die and spawn 400. The careful Uber Thief now has to hit half as many locations.

Again, twisting the facts. This assumes 100% loot drop, but that isn't set on most (if not all) servers. Again, yes, an issue, but again, one you're blowing out of proportion using figures that are not in play.

Interestingly, guards have COMPLETE control over how this affects them. All you have to do is NOT pick up the dropped loot, and no additional loot respawns, only the amount dropped.

[Buho]

Thank you LaughingRat. I was about to say the same thing.

But this control part isn't nescesary so. In practice, it's strongly instinctive to return the loot yourself, and in most cases where loot is dropped is not the best place to guard until it returns on its own. On top of that, many many guards do not even know of this bug still, nor will they before 1.3 comes out.

Get it out of your system now, Mad Gerbil, and then shut the hell up :) There's nothing any of us can do about it now except wait for 1.3. :cool: Remember, this is beta and we are testers. I don't want to read your rants about this bug anymore.

[LaughingRat]

Thank you LaughingRat. I was about to say the same thing.

But this control part isn't nescesary so. In practice, it's strongly instinctive to return the loot yourself, and in most cases where loot is dropped is not the best place to guard until it returns on its own. On top of that, many many guards do not even know of this bug still, nor will they before 1.3 comes out.


I don't actually agree with this. If a thief drops a large amount of loot, hafing it in one place, even for just two minutes, makes it easier to guard that LARGE amount of loot than if it were returned to the map, scattered all over the place. This won't ALWATS be true, of course, especially in cases of maps that have large concentrations of loot in one place (Nostalgia and the treasury in Flats come to mind), but in general, having it all in one place makes it easier to cover for the time that it's there.

[Buho]

Oh, yeah. I know, LR. I practice guarding loot piles too for those reasons, but you have to consider the other general guards that are on your team and how they play -- usually without thinking ( :o uh oh, making generalizations). All I was saying is that even tho this is a good idea, it usually doesn't happen.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Buho,

There is nothing to get out of my system.
I documented the loot bug for fun and Dalia says it's fixed in 1.3

Not much to discuss really, except maybe the level of impact it may have on the game. I say you being able to fetch half the loot objective from one location on Nostalgia is a major impact....others feel differently.

No biggie.

[Aggamemnon]

Yeha that lyre really is a bitch eh... :lol: :lol: :joking:

Right and go amd re-edit the one above to spell the devs name right at LEAST pffft man :stabbed:

[Buho]

Mad Gerbil, I have you beat! I be now UBER THIEF!!

http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~eseger1/uberloot.jpg

You read right. That's 40,660 loot! The lyre respawned 29 times after I died the fifth time. What makes Nostaligia a good candidate for this bug is it's so convinient to collect the respawn in 1000 incriments. Other maps work too, but you have to run your ass around, or camp one stack of coins for 20 minutes.

I found that when a thief dies, he drops a maximum of 10,000 loot (that's 100 blue bags!), so Mad Gerbil's initial estimates of 50,000 or more loot are impossible. For Nostalgia, 100% drop, 6 thief lives, 2820 map loot, the theoretical maximum loot you can get with the loot bug is 41,280. With that in mind, I didn't do too bad, with being a mere 620 away from the max. Anyone care to top that? :ebil:

Another interesting thing I found: the loot bug is not present in single play mode. Loot nabbed from a dead thief does NOT respawn. If you guys want to get a flavor of what 1.3 will be like, try it out :)

Although I be Uber Thief, I do be Uber Geeky too for finding all this out. :P

[Mad_Bergil]

damn man, you have your gamma maxed or what?!

[-=V12US=-]

damn man, you have your gamma maxed or what?!

It looks quite similar to my settings, maybe mine are a tad darker, but not much.

[LaughingRat]

Another interesting thing I found: the loot bug is not present in single play mode. Loot nabbed from a dead thief does NOT respawn. If you guys want to get a flavor of what 1.3 will be like, try it out :)

It makes sense that the loot bug doesn't occur in single player. It's a result of loot being returned by guards, being returned to the map again 2 minutes later by the game as well. In single player, the AI guards don't return the loot, so it's only respawned once.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Another interesting thing I found: the loot bug is not present in single play mode. Loot nabbed from a dead thief does NOT respawn. If you guys want to get a flavor of what 1.3 will be like, try it out :)

It makes sense that the loot bug doesn't occur in single player. It's a result of loot being returned by guards, being returned to the map again 2 minutes later by the game as well. In single player, the AI guards don't return the loot, so it's only respawned once.

LaughingRat:

Even if a thief picks up his own loot, it will still spawn again (in multiplayer).
That means in a multiplayer game if I drop 1000 loot as a theif, spawn, and pick up the 1000 loot that an additional 1000 loot will respawn anyways.

[LaughingRat]

Even if a thief picks up his own loot, it will still spawn again (in multiplayer). That means in a multiplayer game if I drop 1000 loot as a theif, spawn, and pick up the 1000 loot that an additional 1000 loot will respawn anyways.

That I wasn't aware of. I thought it only occurred when guards returned loot dropped.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Even if a thief picks up his own loot, it will still spawn again (in multiplayer). That means in a multiplayer game if I drop 1000 loot as a theif, spawn, and pick up the 1000 loot that an additional 1000 loot will respawn anyways.

That I wasn't aware of. I thought it only occurred when guards returned loot dropped.

Nope.
It's one way I got such high numbers.
I'd kill myself near the spawn and then pick up my own dropped loot. =)
It's a pretty nasty bug.

[LaughingRat]

It's one way I got such high numbers.
I'd kill myself near the spawn and then pick up my own dropped loot. =)
It's a pretty nasty bug.

It's nowhere near as nasty as you and Buho have portrayed, though. Such phenomenally high loot totals can only be achieved under very specific circumstances, which will never actually be encountered "live".

[Buho]

I have my gamma down at a more respectable darkness. I brightened the image in Photoshop using Levels (Ctrl+L) for your convinience. I wish everyone did this to their screenshots, as they are almost always too dark to see.

Mad Gerbil is right about the respawn. Still, it's wierd why the bug is not in single play.

LR: Yeah. But it's common to get an extra 150 - 500 in a normal game, all while spamming a safe loot zone. It's that extra little bit that every thief has been taking advantage of, an edge that everyone has come to rely on, intentionally or no. Everyone will experience a shock when 1.3 comes out.

[Mad_Gerbil]

It's one way I got such high numbers.
I'd kill myself near the spawn and then pick up my own dropped loot. =)
It's a pretty nasty bug.

It's nowhere near as nasty as you and Buho have portrayed, though. Such phenomenally high loot totals can only be achieved under very specific circumstances, which will never actually be encountered "live".

LR:
Of course it's not as nasty as all that, but then again, the thieves don't need 40,000 loot to win. I think 2-3X the normal loot being generated is common in a public server game and I think that is a HUGE difference.

I'm gonna make a prediction here: After 1.3 goes live there will be a HUGE stink about how difficult it's become to thief a map and get the required loot. Why? Because it is now a viable option to camp loot without people getting half from an obsure spawn location. Thieves have come to rely on the spawn bug and they are gonna really feel the pinch when it's gone.

We'll see what happens in 1.3 :eek:

[LaughingRat]

Of course it's not as nasty as all that, but then again, the thieves don't need 40,000 loot to win. I think 2-3X the normal loot being generated is common in a public server game and I think that is a HUGE difference.

You're exaggerating the additional amount being generated quite a bit The only way it could get that high under normal circumstances is when 100% loot dropped is insisted on. At the default of 50%, the problem is considerably less, and it's non-existent if guards don't return dropped loot themselves and thieves dno't pick it up before it respawns automatically.

I'm gonna make a prediction here: After 1.3 goes live there will be a HUGE stink about how difficult it's become to thief a map and get the required loot. Why? Because it is now a viable option to camp loot without people getting half from an obsure spawn location. Thieves have come to rely on the spawn bug and they are gonna really feel the pinch when it's gone.

That, combined with thieves reduced ability to remove obstacles in thier way (guards) will undoubtedly make it harder for thieves. I'd add to your prediction that we'll see a guard win rate of 75-80% after that patch, as opposed to the approx 50-50 it is now.

[Mad_Gerbil]

LR:

I think the guard wins have been about 80% even now. I don't think this has much to do with loot or bugs, however. In my honest opinion I think more thieves are actively trying the DM route and are getting very sloppy.

I'm finding thieves running around with bows out, sword out, and trying to hide in shadows. I'm finding thieves attacking me when I've got two other humans with me. It's like they've lost the ability to use the shadows or something.

At any rate, I really do think the thieves have been losing ALOT lately because of a total lack of patience and the persistent overt agressiveness under the most ridiculous circumstances.

Guys, even if you DM you still have to have a knowledge of the shadows for when things don't go your way.

[LaughingRat]

Or maybe the overall quality if guarding is just going up?

[Mad_Gerbil]

Or maybe the overall quality if guarding is just going up?

I was going to suggest that, but its nicer to have you say it.

8)

:chase:

[-=V12US=-]

Why are we still debating on the lameness of this? It's going to be fixed in 1.3 anyway.

As for now, why don't you just consider a game a good game, whether you win or not.
Personally, I still get the kicks from being able to KO or ghost a guard with him not even knowing I was there, or chasing that one thief for a minute and finally killing him... It's all about the moments, not the scoreboard... I have my own little wins and losses. :)

[LaughingRat]

Or maybe the overall quality if guarding is just going up?

I was going to suggest that, but its nicer to have you say it.

Well, I've been throwing out enough suggestions. It's nice to get some confirmation that SOMEONE has been listening.

:ebil: