Say Goodbye to Spawn Rape.

[KewlAzMe]

"Spawn Rape", bitch moan," i was spawn raped."

Spawn Rape can happen, even with the new 10 sec invisi timer, a firebolt can change things quickly. So Ive found a mutator for UT that allows the admin to give all players temporary Invincibility after spawn.

So 10 secs of no damage + 5 (changed) secs of free invis = ALMOST NO SPAWN RAPE.

However, just like the free 10 secs of invisi, if you use a weapon, that voids the rest of the time you have left on the timer... However it is settable to give nondamage even to players that use weapons.

Zenkai Server will have this mutator on for a while, give u a chance to test it out.

There is of course one potential problem, based on location of objectives after a thief has died. Grank pointed out that with this protection, in the rare case that there are objectives by the thief spawn, a thief could spawn, grab the objectives, and run away without a scratch. However this is obvioudly extremely rare, and caltrops will still slow u down, and mines will still go off, so the problem is proababy moot. I am looking into making this timer void if you hit the frob button as well to remedy this problem, but Im not that advance at Uscript just yet.

Try it out and see if u like it.

[Nemesis #1]

Didn't you post this on zenkai already...... :sweat:

[Machine]

I like it

[Kiech Bepho]

Your mutator has an obvious problem: Th-Folly(LOL!) The ruby can be grabbed within 10 seconds 1/2 the time. Lower the invinco to 5 seconds, and we should be OK.

Kiech
www.thecrackaz.com

[KewlAzMe]

Your mutator has an obvious problem: Th-Folly(LOL!) The ruby can be grabbed within 10 seconds 1/2 the time. Lower the invinco to 5 seconds, and we should be OK.

Kiech
www.thecrackaz.com

Thx for the feedback, Perhaps I will make 5 secs no-damage, and then we can still have 10 secs of invisi.


yes nem i posted it on zenkai, also wanted to make it more mainstream... so shutting your hole is good :thumb:

[KewlAzMe]

wow..all the griping I hear about it, i would assume there would be some feedback, praise, etc.

[Sisu]

Good idea Kewl.

(here it comes)

But, whats the use? Most servers have policies against spawnrape. The community polices itself. With continued abuse the individual gets kicked or banned. As players we recognize spawnrape and deal with it and the party involved. So spawnrape becomes an isolated incident much like dealing with a rager.

When someone does spawnrape with malicious intent (which seperates them as the true jerks) its rare and it stains someones reputation. Just like raging will sully an individuals standing. This stuff sticks with them. We have a small community, this lends itself well to being able to have something done about an abuser.

I can forsee a much larger amount of abuse of this mut than possible rewards. Unless of course I'm blind and have missed a large amount of spawnrape? I would be happy to be corrected on this issue, as it would be nice to see the introduction of anything that will enrich and secure the Thievery experience.

[LaughingRat]

I've been thinking much the same thing as Sisu. A truly malicious spawnkill is pretty rare these days, and people who do it regularly quickly become exiles. The abuse this mutator will allow is probably worse than the "problem" it's set to solve. The cure is worse than the disease.

In Thievery, any meaningful period of invulnerability is going to allowunstoppable rushes of objectives (on some maps, not all). Caltrops may still work, but it's hardly fair to require guards to use up their loadout just to slow down an invincible rushing thief for long enough that he's actually killable once he has the objective. Turn the time down to where that's not possible, and the duration of invulnerability becomes almost pointless, in the dimension of stopping spawnkilling.

[Taffergirl]

I like this idea.

How come it's not in the suggestions forum?

[Antero90]

Altough this idea sounds good in theory in practice it may unbalance some maps, Folly may become completly killed with this.
As some people mentioned here already, when a guy starts spawnraping on purpose he gets a deserved dose of BAND. You might get spawnedraped by a guard who just happened to be chasing a thief into that area, in that case i consider it the thieve's fault, not the guard.
Anyway use it if you think its needed, maybe it may be proove to be a good idea in the future when it has more time of use.

[KewlAzMe]

Sisu, LR.. you guys seemed to forget about accidental Spawn rape such as thief running into spawn and guard firespamming. You also seem to forget there are two teams in this game.

This mutator could cause harm if it was set to a high number.. but its no diff than God mode. even in Folly... with speed and spawn in the barrel area.. u cannot get to the ruby in 5 secs.. which is how long the damage protection is set for.. No one cries about the free invisi 10 secs that can definitely allow thieves to get the ruby. Fire still affects, cals still affect.. but instead of gettin damage caused to you.. u just douse the fire and be on ur way.

But how many times have you been in the situation where u are a guard.. u just got KO'd or just joined... and as soon as you spawn.. BONK! I know many of you have been in that situation because I do it to guards many times a day. You see new guards spawn all the time... now if a thief tries that.. u can be protected, turn around and kick his ass. as soon as u swing ur weapon though, protection is off.. so fair is fair once the battle begins..

As long as the admin's have the control.. this mod is exactly what we need to stop the bitching about spawn rape.. which i heard just the other day about a member of Zenkai. Instead of arguing about who was right.. I went ahead and fixed the glitch.

There is however, one scenario, which i mentioned before.. What if thief gets ruby in folly, goes to exit, gets killed, then spawns right there.. he can get the ruby again and get out without harm... which is why i, or someone, needs to modify it so that whether you swing your weapon or frob.... u still lose the protection.

But dont take my word for it.. go on my server..give it a try... do some tests.

As far as rules about spawn rape.. sure.. rules.. there is always some technicality or bullshit that someone makes up for going into the spawn area.

[Radamanthus]

The one MAJOR problem I have wiht this is when a guard ihas a mace and is blocking the exit from the spawn.

Such is the case oin maps wiht one spawn. The guard only has ot stand in the exit, wait until the time is out, and then just hacks away.

And it doesn't stop Trappin hte entrances, like you did yesterday.

[KewlAzMe]

that has nothing to do with this though... and who blocked the exit yesterday? i never played u as a guard.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Kewl: While you may not be able to get the gem in Folly in 5 seconds, you will be able to get the objective that dropped near a spawn. You would also be able to sword-rape the guards guarding it (One charged sword hit in the back HURTS)

[KewlAzMe]

Reading skills are key my friend.. please see my last post again.. and read the last paragraph.

There is however, one scenario, which i mentioned before.. What if thief gets ruby in folly, goes to exit, gets killed, then spawns right there.. he can get the ruby again and get out without harm... which is why i, or someone, needs to modify it so that whether you swing your weapon or frob.... u still lose the protection.

yes i know that is a pretty rare condition..on all but folly and asylum. As far as the sword in the back.. the already implemented invis function already lets you do that! Once again, nothing to do with this mutator.

[Sisu]

Well Kewl you have some good points. I still don't agree. :P

The case you mentioned of a thief running back through spawn and thus attracting a guards attention to the thief spawn area can be a problem, but just like the ten sec of invis, it doesn't assure a getaway, in most instances you still must be sufficiently skilled in escape and evasion to make use of the invis alone. I didn't forget about such happenings, but in IMHO they are rare enough as is.

In my experiences if you need invincibilty, that means you would be taking damage, if you're taking damage that then equates to someone laying the smackdown on you, if they are close enough that they are laying the aformentioned smackdown, then a few sec of invincibility aren't going to save you. In this case I would say the invis and perhaps the added effect of catfall for the spawn duration would go much further, you can't hurt (or try to injure) what you can't see or hear.

As for guards being spawnraped... again, I must have had very positive experiences because this hasn't happened often, granted if I am spawning into an insecure spot, I allow a few sec before I right click to enter the actual match, that way any taffers will reveal themselves after your loadout is bought (sound of rasping metal as sword is drawn) they then try and strike, you can tell them to bugger off at that point.

Think of how often a thief on folly dies in or immediately around the spawn when trying to escape with the ruby? Much more often than spawnrape I am sure. And with even a few sec of invincibility they may be able to make off with the goods, quaff a speed and a catfall, and away you go?

To be clear I am not against the concept because I think it would be useless, I think that the rare times spawnrape might occur could be offset by this mut, the problem I see is more of the abuse side. I am willing to defer this point temporarily so that I can test it out and see if it might cause more harm that it prevents. I'll hop on and see I suppose, either way, its nice to see someone trying to address the possible negative points of an otherwise great game.

[KewlAzMe]

Well Kewl you have some good points. I still don't agree. :P

The case you mentioned of a thief running back through spawn and thus attracting a guards attention to the thief spawn area can be a problem, but just like the ten sec of invis, it doesn't assure a getaway, in most instances you still must be sufficiently skilled in escape and evasion to make use of the invis alone. I didn't forget about such happenings, but in IMHO they are rare enough as is.

Rare, but in those rare times, it may or may not come in handy. If it does...then its a bonus and u can start the level without needing a health pot, if it doesn't then you still have full health.. so whats the loss?


In my experiences if you need invincibilty, that means you would be taking damage, if you're taking damage that then equates to someone laying the smackdown on you, if they are close enough that they are laying the aformentioned smackdown, then a few sec of invincibility aren't going to save you. In this case I would say the invis and perhaps the added effect of catfall for the spawn duration would go much further, you can't hurt (or try to injure) what you can't see or hear.

If you are gettin smacked down while invis... u have never gotten away? Then you must work on your escape skills. For the ones that can escape while invis, im sure they will appreciate not taking damage during those first few hits of spawn...Also if its Firespam.. Once again.. if the timer runs out before they started taking the smackdown... then A. They should have gotten out of there in the time allotted, and B. Thats too bad.. but its no different than not having this mutator at all.. so once again..what have u got to lose?

As for guards being spawnraped... again, I must have had very positive experiences because this hasn't happened often, granted if I am spawning into an insecure spot, I allow a few sec before I right click to enter the actual match, that way any taffers will reveal themselves after your loadout is bought (sound of rasping metal as sword is drawn) they then try and strike, you can tell them to bugger off at that point.
OK..u may do this..but thieves like me dont fall for that.. and noob guards wont know better.

Think of how often a thief on folly dies in or immediately around the spawn when trying to escape with the ruby? Much more often than spawnrape I am sure. And with even a few sec of invincibility they may be able to make off with the goods, quaff a speed and a catfall, and away you go? Sigh.. its almost like Im speaking another language.. no one seems to read the last paragraph.. I will have to make it RED. Scroll up and read the RED TEXT!

To be clear I am not against the concept because I think it would be useless, I think that the rare times spawnrape might occur could be offset by this mut, the problem I see is more of the abuse side. I am willing to defer this point temporarily so that I can test it out and see if it might cause more harm that it prevents. I'll hop on and see I suppose, either way, its nice to see someone trying to address the possible negative points of an otherwise great game.

Yes you've just spelled it out.. spawn rape happens at rare points.. but when it does happen, it might just be useful.. You act as if you are losing something precious by having 5 secs of damage protection... its only a bonus! You have almost nothing to lose ..only something to gain.. except for the objective near spawn., and once I fix the frob thing, you have nothing to lose at all! How can it cause harm if no one has the control of timer but admins, and same spawn respect stays in line.

Everything that the invisi gives you is still there.. this is transparent as far as rushing items.. And if there are spawns left when the loot is all captured and all thieves are in exit.. even if u didnt have damage protection, thieves are still gonna win it with that invisi anyway. So all your complaints should be regarding the free 10 secs of invisi, not 5 secs of damage protection.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Reading skills are key my friend.. please see my last post again.. and read the last paragraph.

There is however, one scenario, which i mentioned before.. What if thief gets ruby in folly, goes to exit, gets killed, then spawns right there.. he can get the ruby again and get out without harm... which is why i, or someone, needs to modify it so that whether you swing your weapon or frob.... u still lose the protection.

yes i know that is a pretty rare condition..on all but folly and asylum. As far as the sword in the back.. the already implemented invis function already lets you do that! Once again, nothing to do with this mutator.

If the guards hear footsteps, they can start shadowslashing. With invincibility, that won't save them.

[Sisu]

If you are gettin smacked down while invis... u have never gotten away?

Did I say, NO... urge to kill... rising...
Circular... cigol woof!

And retroactively editing your posts to reflect new information and then jumping all over people who post AFTER you edited your post seems to be... not kewl. :lol:

We shall see what we shall see either way, I'm curious if certain maps will be affected. When I went online to play your server wasn't up (or visible) though so I couldn't check this fun stuff out. Maybe tomorrow...

[MortalMonkey]

So many words...making me blind to them...

Anyway, I'm with Sisu and LR on this, I think Thievery needs better spawns instead of better spawnings. I don't think the 10 sec invisibility needs be there either.

[killed]

Well, I like the idea, of course, I would have to see it in action to really see how well it works. The rushing thing kinda makes me wonder. And it is true that spawn rapes are much more rare these days, but they still happen. Interesting mutator.

[KewlAzMe]

Don't take my word.. go try it! first off..its totally passive..its like insurance.. its a big what if.. I want u all to try to break it and find a real thing wrong with it. MM, Better spawns is the best answer but its too late.. not without remaking all the maps.. this is a fix for that, and its not even major enuff to notice it.. or to find it useful... its insurance for that rare time someone comes into spawn and hits u on accident while shadow slashing for another thief... No more bitching.. AMEN!

Secondly.. i must have the only PC in the world where footsteps are hard to concentrate on while im running around swinging my mace along with 2 other guards, AI talking, and loud "New Objective" bells ringin in my ears. Only time footsteps come in handy for me is when Im camping or walking slowly to hear them.

[DarkProject]

i just stopped by here to say bye

"bye spawn rape...i'm sure i'll see you soon though"

[Radamanthus]

More like "bye spawn rape: see you against the guards!"

THis has some seroious isues. If it works likethe invisibility: wers off when you attack, tehn I say yes.


If not, no.

[KewlAzMe]

Have you read anything yet Rad? yes..like i said..it wears off with attack... and soon it will wear off with frob.

[Kiech Bepho]

Have you read anything yet Rad? yes..like i said..it wears off with attack... and soon it will wear off with frob.

Hmm? What are we susposed to read again? I got blindined by all of that red stuff in the middle of the thread and just kept scrolling down past it. Maybe you should post your points in a purple color so someone will see it...no wait, how about orange? NO thats still too red for me. Blue then? Or better yet, put it in a spoiler text, then maybe someone will bother reading it (I always read the spoilers!)

:joking:

Kiech
www.thecrackaz.com

[Radamanthus]

Ho about restating everything in english, not Gibberish.

[KewlAzMe]

Ho about .....

hypocrit.

[hAiNeSy]

What are you torking about? His English is purfect.

[LaughingRat]

hypocrit.

+e

[Kiech Bepho]

hypocrit.

+e

Whats a "+e"?

[KewlAzMe]

HO +e keich.. he was talkin about you! ya hoe!

[Kiech Bepho]

PIMP not whore. Ok, now I gotta side with everyone else and say your idea sucks worms. See what happens when ya PO a pimp? He cuts ya off!

Kiech
PIMP of the CTG
www.thecrackaz.com

[LaughingRat]

hypocrit.
+e
Whats a "+e"?
I was adding the "e" that KAM forgot, to "hypocrite".

[MortalMonkey]

Oh, noting to do with electrons then?

[LaughingRat]

Oh, noting to do with electrons then?

Would't that be -e, then? Or were we discussing the possibility of anti-matter?

[CrouchingDork]

He's got ya there, MM.

:P

[LaughingRat]

He's got ya there, MM.

:P

Oh, sure. Just undermine my position completely by agreeing with me.

[CrouchingDork]

He's got ya there, MM.

:P

Oh, sure. Just undermine my position completely by agreeing with me.

Ok. I agree with you LR!

[LaughingRat]

Ok. I agree with you LR!

You already said that.

[MortalMonkey]

He's got ya there, MM.

:P
What, you don't believe in antimatter?

But antimatter is the only reason matter can exist, as the total amount of matter in the universe started at 0 (tho you can't really say that it started). The big bang was just a fluke due to infinity of time that split zero into +1 and -1 (so to speak), thereby creating the universe we know. What has happened to the antimatter since then is yet unknown, but scientists believe that there now exists much less antimatter than matter.

Well, that's my probably flawed theory anyway.

[LaughingRat]

What, you don't believe in antimatter?

But antimatter is the only reason matter can exist, as the total amount of matter in the universe started at 0 (tho you can't really say that it started). The big bang was just a fluke due to infinity of time that split zero into +1 and -1 (so to speak), thereby creating the universe we know. What has happened to the antimatter since then is yet unknown, but scientists believe that there now exists much less antimatter than matter.

Well, that's my probably flawed theory anyway.

All well and good, but I'd originally posted "+e". As electrons carry a negative charge, I couldn't have been referring to them (unless I was making a mistake - but of course, that's not even thinkable :P). I could have been referring to a positron, however.

But really, I just felt the need to correct KAM, since he felt the need to correct someone else on something that was trivial, and a joke.

[MortalMonkey]

I could have been referring to a positron, however.
Yes, ofcourse, antimatter "electrons" are considered positrons. But are they the same? Wait, I thought antimatter had their own set of quarks?
Gah, now I'm confused.

[LaughingRat]

I could have been referring to a positron, however.
Yes, ofcourse, antimatter "electrons" are considered positrons. But are they the same? Wait, I thought antimatter had their own set of quarks?
Gah, now I'm confused.

A positron (the only antimatter particle to have its own name, all the rest being named "anti-whatever", as in anti-neutron, anti-proton, etc) is an anti-electron. It's the first anti-particle discovered, which probably accounts for the uniqueness of it's name. It has all the same qualities as an electron (same kinds of quantum numbers, with the same possible values), but has a positive charge.

I think I recall that antimatter does have it's own set of quarks, but they're just anti-quarks, quarks with similarly reversed polarities.

There's also a theory that anti-particles are actually just normal matter particles, travelling backwards in time. It's perfectly consistent with existing quantum theory, and last I'd heard, no one had come up with any theory or experimental evidence to deny it.

Beware the quantum duck. QUARK! QUARK!

[Curunir]

Beware the quantum duck. QUARK! QUARK!


You just hurt the left side of my brain very badly...