What a Newbie unfriendly community we are, tsk, tsk...

[-=V12US=-]

I would just like to say that some people here act really friendly when you talk to them, but once you meet them ingame... they turn out to be total assholes. :x

Just a moment ago, I was trying to help your typical newbie... going toe to toe with guards, bow drawn and all... I even asked people to take it slowly the next game so I could help the new guy with buying equipment and the like...

But what happens??

Certain assholes whom I shall not name proceeded in ruining the 'class' by blackjacking the newbie while he was spawning, and rushing all the games so I could not explain stuff to him. Like what whistlers were, what caltrops do, etc.
I know you people want to play games, but new people don't join often. And when you just abuse them so you can get an easy victory I doubt it'll make them stay for long.

When a newbie joins, it is our responsibility to explain the game to them. This is not a "pick-up-a-weapon-and-start-fragging" game, this game actually NEEDS someone to guide you, especcially if you haven't played thief before...
So if you keep up this behavious, and start laughing at newbies instead of explaining them that they should sneak and stick to the shadows, then this community will stay small and eventually die out... New people are the life of any game, we need new people to discover new things about the game and propose refreshing idea's that will help the game evolve to something that could be considered one of the best and original mods on the internet.

Keep this in mind people...
just my 0.02 loot.

[Lurox]

That's true enough. Remember, this game has no frigging manual. Please, when you see one, try to educate him nicely so he doesn't become a DM'er. :erg:

[Mad_Gerbil]

NOTICE TO NOOBIES:
If you want help, ask. We have serveral servers out there and there are several people in the community who will give you one on one lessons.

NOTICE TO VETS:
Any time you guys wanna show noobies some stuff, just let me know and I'll password protect the RLF server and have you play there so you are left alone. I'm quite sure I speak for serveral server admins here when I say that we'll do what we can to make sure these people get help in a hassle free environment.

[NeoPendragon]

Newbies should read the fucking guide first insted of trying to learn everthing in-game. :stabbed:

[PhaeThorn]

That's true enough. Remember, this game has no frigging manual. Please, when you see one, try to educate him nicely so he doesn't become a DM'er. :erg:

says the man who rushed folly, after the n00b guard team asked, not to rush, in order to give them atleast a small chance.

[Omega]

Happened to me too on several ocurences, i'll don't post any names, but usually these people are from "clans".

[-=V12US=-]

Happened to me too on several ocurences, i'll don't post any names, but usually these people are from "clans".

Indeed, it doesn't really help when people spam stuff like =***** OWNS J00= either.

EDIT: Before someone takes this the wrong way, I was not talking about Omega, I chose the amount of *'s at complete random. :o

[BrokenArts]

I agree, people we need more players. It's a freakin GAME. Help the new players, and not yourself to their inventory with you Knock them out when you have spawn raped them for christ sake. Sheesh. :x

I have helped a few n00bs when they have asked questions, they all have appreciated the advice and the tips. I think some are afraid to speak up, I wish they would when I am around. I like to help. So sue me. :sweat:

I don't really understand why some of you continue to berate the n00bs, it's wrong. I get sick of hearing about it. :nono:

[BrokenArts]

Newbies should read the fucking guide first insted of trying to learn everthing in-game. :stabbed:

Yes you are correct, but, when in game, if you haven't played this mod before, it is quite different. Playing against a real person, is nothing like playing against an AI. It can't prepare you, for what you will face with a real human thief or guard. The learning curve for every n00b, will still be there, no matter how much they play solo, and read the guide. Learning the maps is the main thing, and loot placement too.

A n00b will have no idea the style of play that some of you prefer, he/she does the best they can do. Skill will be gained over time.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Newbies should read the fucking guide first insted of trying to learn everthing in-game. :stabbed:

If this is the attitude of "vets" in this game then I'd rather play on a server full of total noobies. The game can be learned rather quickly, good manners cannot.

[SNAFU]

You are CORRECT sir!

When I first started CS, somebody was trying to explain to me which guns were better, how the grenades worked, etc. when some loser decided to knife me while I was typing. After that, I became an AWP whore, and was much, much hated on all servers I joined. It took the scout to cure me of my AWP-ness, then I became what CS players call "1337". The lovable scout never let me down.

My most incredible shot was with the scout; 3 headshots... with the same bullet.

But before that, I learned new cuss words that I'm sure don't really exist... :ebil:

Those were the days... now everybody there has the maturity and intelligence of your below average 1st grader.

[NeoPendragon]

I agree, people we need more players. It's a freakin GAME. Help the new players, and not yourself to their inventory with you Knock them out when you have spawn raped them for christ sake. Sheesh. :x

I have helped a few n00bs when they have asked questions, they all have appreciated the advice and the tips. I think some are afraid to speak up, I wish they would when I am around. I like to help. So sue me. :sweat:

I don't really understand why some of you continue to berate the n00bs, it's wrong. I get sick of hearing about it. :nono:

Well, I am sick of people who choose to be ignorant. I play the game to acually play it and have fun, not to be Mr. Human Tutorial. If there's a question thats not answered in the Guide, thats cool, but I don't want to be bothered about things they could have easily found there, especially what items do, etc. If this is harsh, so be it. :bj:

[Lurox]

Those were the days... now everybody there has the maturity and intelligence of your below average 1st grader.

Well, Eljoelio plays CS. :sweat:

[Mad_Gerbil]

Happened to me too on several ocurences, i'll don't post any names, but usually these people are from "clans".

Membership in a clan has nothing to do with level of rudeness displayed in game. Whatever hang up you have about clans has nothing to do with the topic.

[NeoPendragon]

That's true enough. Remember, this game has no frigging manual. Please, when you see one, try to educate him nicely so he doesn't become a DM'er. :erg:

http://www.thieveryut.com/Guide/index.htm

Ahem, yes it does. Its just that no one seems to read it. Is the link button invisible in some browsers? I don't know.

When a newbie joins, it is our responsibility to explain the game to them.

This is a silly statement. Its like buying a game with no manual, and the developers say "Well, Its the players' responsibility to teach each other." :roll: Thievery has a manual. A nice one. A nice one that also states that thieves are physicly weaker and need to use cunning. READ IT! :)

[Mad_Gerbil]

I dunno why the game manual would state that thieves are "physically weaker" when it's totally irrelevant to the game play. That might actually cause some noobies to believe thieves cannot hold their own in combat.

Thieves have the only 1 shot kill in the game (BJ).
Thieves have the only 2 shot kill in the game (Sword behind AI).
Thieves have the only ranged 3 shot kill in the game (Arrows in Back).

It escapes me what difference having 25 hitpoints less than guards makes when you can kill so fast guards don't have a chance to respond.

Not that I've hijacked the thread, mind you.

[-=V12US=-]

I dunno why the game manual would state that thieves are "physically weaker" when it's totally irrelevant to the game play. That might actually cause some noobies to believe thieves cannot hold their own in combat.

Thieves have the only 1 shot kill in the game (BJ).
Thieves have the only 2 shot kill in the game (Sword behind AI).
Thieves have the only ranged 3 shot kill in the game (Arrows in Back).

It escapes me what difference having 25 hitpoints less than guards makes when you can kill so fast guards don't have a chance to respond.

Not that I've hijacked the thread, mind you.

Jeah, too bad the AI's are braindead zombies who just stand there, not minding anything that's going on around them.

OH WAIT, THEY AREN'T!

[Mr.K.]

NeoPendragon, i don't know what outrages you so much. If everyone was to follow that policy, soon the game would end up being 3 players all alone. Of course it'd be great if all the newcomers would read the guide before playing, but to be true, even though the guide is correct and complete, once you are in the game it will take days until a new player gets the hold of the game, let alone play decently. If this newcomer is in a game with other players that don't give a f*ck or even worse, start bashing him/her, this person will just say "screw it" and move on.

When you want more people to play a game, you promote it and create a friendly environment for new players. If you visit any decent gaming company's forums, you'll see lots of plainly stupid questions about things that are in the manual or that may seem obvious for you. Thing is that not everyone gets everything equally fast. The company could say "screw you, you already payed for the game.", but if it's a good one, they'll try their best to support the players and allow them to enjoy the product of the hard work they put on the game. Now this is a free mod and the developers are no big company with customer support department, and it is OUR responsability, as people who benefit from the work of others for free to help the game to be accessible for everyone. Most of the gamers for mods are people who casually picked it up to try it. If the mod is good and the community is friendly, they will stay. If they feel lost and nobody gives them the smallest help, they'll just uninstall it and tell their friends not to bother trying it.

This is, at least, the way i see it.

[-=V12US=-]

I have yet to find any piece of text in any guide that teaches players what mantleing is, or how they should operate lockpicks.

[SNAFU]

Those were the days... now everybody there has the maturity and intelligence of your below average 1st grader.

Well, Eljoelio plays CS. :sweat:

I wonder if that says something about him... :P :grin: :joking:

[NeoPendragon]

I have yet to find any piece of text in any guide that teaches players what mantleing is, or how they should operate lockpicks.

I don't know about mantling, but the lockpicks are pretty obvious to your average 3 year old. The problem with the guide is that most of it assumes you've played Thief 1 and 2.

[NeoPendragon]

NeoPendragon, i don't know what outrages you so much. If everyone was to follow that policy, soon the game would end up being 3 players all alone. Of course it'd be great if all the newcomers would read the guide before playing, but to be true, even though the guide is correct and complete, once you are in the game it will take days until a new player gets the hold of the game, let alone play decently. If this newcomer is in a game with other players that don't give a f*ck or even worse, start bashing him/her, this person will just say "screw it" and move on.

This claim is unfounded. CS (and yes I used to play quite a bit) has loads and loads of jackass players and its one of the most popular mods in the world. I might go so far as to suggest that it has so many asses because it is the most popular mod in the world. Nice people tend to gravitate to their own or get discuraged and quit while assholes will play with anyone. :)

When you want more people to play a game, you promote it and create a friendly environment for new players. If you visit any decent gaming company's forums, you'll see lots of plainly stupid questions about things that are in the manual or that may seem obvious for you. Thing is that not everyone gets everything equally fast. The company could say "screw you, you already payed for the game.", but if it's a good one, they'll try their best to support the players and allow them to enjoy the product of the hard work they put on the game.

Yes, they also get paid for it. I as a player, do not.

Now this is a free mod and the developers are no big company with customer support department, and it is OUR responsability, as people who benefit from the work of others for free to help the game to be accessible for everyone. Most of the gamers for mods are people who casually picked it up to try it. If the mod is good and the community is friendly, they will stay. If they feel lost and nobody gives them the smallest help, they'll just uninstall it and tell their friends not to bother trying it.

This is, at least, the way i see it.

I will usually answer any questions in-game if I'm spectating, and any questions on the forum that can't be found with the search button. I'm just saying people should do their research first.

And I'm not outraged. I'm cynical.

[LaughingRat]

I don't know about mantling, but the lockpicks are pretty obvious to your average 3 year old.

I have given basic tutorials to about a dozen people, none of them stupid. None of them understood the operation of the lockpicks initially. It's obvious to YOU because YOU already know how to use them.

The problem with the guide is that most of it assumes you've played Thief 1 and 2.

And yet, not every player of this game has played Thief and Thief2. That, combined with your quote above bely your earlier claim that this game has a manual. It does, but (with all due respect to the devs), it is woefully inadequate.

NeoP, you said you like to play this game to PLAY it. How long do you think you can keep doing that if every new player gets driven off immediately? Fail to support it, and it soon won't be there for you to play any more.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Any new players wishing to learn this game in a friendly environment, contact me or any CTG member. Most will be happy to help you, and have access to a private server, if learning on a public server isn't feasible at the time. If necessary, we can schedule a time for an actual tutorial to get you started.

[Omega]

Membership in a clan has nothing to do with level of rudeness displayed in game. Whatever hang up you have about clans has nothing to do with the topic.

Bullshit, I'm saying that off all the players I have spectated ingame "clan"-members are often the ones being rude against newbies.

[Mr.K.]

This claim is unfounded. CS (and yes I used to play quite a bit) has loads and loads of jackass players and its one of the most popular mods in the world. I might go so far as to suggest that it has so many asses because it is the most popular mod in the world. Nice people tend to gravitate to their own or get discuraged and quit while assholes will play with anyone. :)

[...]

Yes, they also get paid for it. I as a player, do not.



When CS started and the community was tiny, like this one, it was probably formed by people who usually helped newcomers. Once it gets rolling and goes out of hand then it sort of works on its own. This mod is not the most popular in the world, and if it has to compete with others to make some people spend time with it, it better offer something CS or other mods don't have. Different gameplay, yes, but also a fine community.

As for service supports being paid, yes, but you pay for the game too. You paid 0 for this yet the developers spent a huge amount of time for free so people like you can enjoy it. It's only fair that we return the favour making the game accessible to all the people we can. And they really need it, as this must be one of the hardest games to play for someone who has never played T1/T2, no matter how much you've read the manual.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Membership in a clan has nothing to do with level of rudeness displayed in game. Whatever hang up you have about clans has nothing to do with the topic.

Bullshit, I'm saying that off all the players I have spectated ingame "clan"-members are often the ones being rude against newbies.

Dude,
If you wanna believe wearing a tag somehow ups a person's "arse ratio" I don't care.

[PhaeThorn]

Membership in a clan has nothing to do with level of rudeness displayed in game. Whatever hang up you have about clans has nothing to do with the topic.

Bullshit, I'm saying that off all the players I have spectated ingame "clan"-members are often the ones being rude against newbies.

Dude,
If you wanna believe wearing a tag somehow ups a person's "arse ratio" I don't care.
I think your totaly missing his point gerbil.

In simple facts he mean:

Maby by chance, the n00b unfriendly people, are mostly people from a guild. He isn't saying attitude changes when you join a guild. He is just pointing out some stats.

[NeoPendragon]

I don't know about mantling, but the lockpicks are pretty obvious to your average 3 year old.

I have given basic tutorials to about a dozen people, none of them stupid. None of them understood the operation of the lockpicks initially. It's obvious to YOU because YOU already know how to use them.

The problem with the guide is that most of it assumes you've played Thief 1 and 2.


It was obvious when I was a newb. I tried to use them by just clicking. After that, I tried holding the button down. :roll: Its not hard to figure out.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Phae:

Well, his comment coming from someone not in a clan... it sounded like clan envy to me. Why else would anyone make such a comment?

When I was in UO I used to really *wonder* about guilds and everything. They seemed so mysterious. Once I jumped in I learned it was no big deal and now I've even started my own and things are fine. (So I'm interpreting his comment through that understanding)

The silly comment Omega made was exactly the sort of nonsense I would of said before actually getting involved. "Those clan types always cause problems". "Oh, he's in a clan, figures".

No biggie.

:guard:

[Omega]

You have no idea......... :twisted:

[Mr.K.]

Envy? Omega is very capable of defending himself and performing boldly in TUT, he doesn't need a sticker to prove that. Your suspicion of envy shows one of the things why i always avoid "serious" online clans. I don't get along with the idea of "we're so l33t and everyone wants to join us but we only let the most l33t3st to be our friends". I play for fun.
This being said i probably took things a little bit out of place, but chauvinism is one of the things that gets to my nerves. :oops: My apologies as i know you didn't mean any wrong.

[DarkProject]

That's true enough. Remember, this game has no frigging manual. Please, when you see one, try to educate him nicely so he doesn't become a DM'er. :erg:

why don't we make one! someone hurry and make one for 1.3

WOW new smileies :D :chase: :shoot: :ninja:

[Mad_Gerbil]

Envy? Omega is very capable of defending himself and performing boldly in TUT, he doesn't need a sticker to prove that. Your suspicion of envy shows one of the things why i always avoid "serious" online clans. I don't get along with the idea of "we're so l33t and everyone wants to join us but we only let the most l33t3st to be our friends". I play for fun.
This being said i probably took things a little bit out of place, but chauvinism is one of the things that gets to my nerves. :oops: My apologies as i know you didn't mean any wrong.

Well, nOObies on up through pro are welcome in the [RLF].
The [RLF] was founded by a clown, is currently full of clowns, and is about as unserious as a clan can be.

The "[RLF] is Uber" spam is all in fun. :chase:

My suspicion of "envy" is founded on my own experience with clans. When I was new to UO I'd never even heard of such a thing. The players all seemed so good and rich and uber that I developed clan "envy" of my own. It's taken me 4 years on online gaming to be comfortable enough with the idea to form my own clan. I found out that a clan is what you make it and a well made clan is just a bunch of friendly people who enjoy playing the same games together.

So that is how Omega came across, I cannot read his mind so only he knows what he really meant. Instead of being harsh on the clan idea, form your own and stock it with nice, helpful people.

[Mr.K.]

I am already in the Rent'a'fence section of clan Larcenio Haul (We haul assets!!), which was founded years ago when Thievery wasn't even a little cell in the middle of a dark place. :grin: If you go over to TTLG and head to the Thief 1/2 general discussion forums you'll see the scroll calls, and the ones for many other clans. These clans were created as a way of having some good fun and in preparation for multiplayer thief. But they are not clans in the means of people who play toghether, stick toghether and train toghether. I like the clan not because we're better than anyone else (or we think we are nor we want to be) but because there's a lot of whacky people inside. We just have fun. Oh, and hate bunnies. All bunnies should die, they will be the doom of humanity. Other than that, we're (almost) sane.

[Omega]

Foofies! :joking:

[Mr.K.]

*Hearing the name of his hideous archrivals, Mr.K. jumps up and draws his sword of justice*

Death to the scum! Kill the Foofies!! :stabbed:

[Thwark]

lordy lordy lordy

[Mr.K.]

http://myweb.cableone.net/maryrn/Larcenio_Haul/CLH01.jpg
<marquee>WE HAUL ASSETS</marquee>

[TheOutrider]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Any new players wishing to learn this game in a friendly environment, contact me or any CTG member. Most will be happy to help you, and have access to a private server, if learning on a public server isn't feasible at the time. If necessary, we can schedule a time for an actual tutorial to get you started.
I second that. I'm in #thievery most of the time and check the forums often, so any newbies can just PM me here or stumble into #thievery and see if I'm there. If I'm available at the time, I can host a game on my own comp (128kbit is enough for two players) and introduce them to the world of Thievery.

[Aggamemnon]

I noticed this too, when i seen it was was amazed that anyone could be so blunt and harsh.
The new player was Alex and also another (sorry dont remember the name alex is easy as its my real name)
Was on spiders a few nights ago and the ONLY person giving him tips was virus, we then proceded onto gerome, and ppl simply bashed them with the usual "he has a fucking sword the N00BIE dumbass" and i was like easy guys he is new why dont ya give im some tips ffs.
Neo was present in both matches im pretty sure, but others where acting "1337ist" too

[Ghostly apparition]

Wow.
well I for one always try to help a newbie. This game is hard enough to
learn without all the razeing people. I've even stopped playing and gone spectator so i could give them some tips.
Any of you giving newbies a hard time should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't n00bs be playing the single player game first? Makes more sense.

[NeoPendragon]

I noticed this too, when i seen it was was amazed that anyone could be so blunt and harsh.
The new player was Alex and also another (sorry dont remember the name alex is easy as its my real name)
Was on spiders a few nights ago and the ONLY person giving him tips was virus, we then proceded onto gerome, and ppl simply bashed them with the usual "he has a fucking sword the N00BIE dumbass" and i was like easy guys he is new why dont ya give im some tips ffs.
Neo was present in both matches im pretty sure, but others where acting "1337ist" too

Um, no I wasn't. I haven't played (1.2 :P) in quite a long time.

[BrokenArts]

Of course n00bs should play solo first. Learn the maps and loot placement. But, nothing will prepare them for having to deal with a real human guard. Especially a veteran.
Their movements :chase: Placement of caltrops, mines, whistler's. Just doesn't compare sometimes to a bot.

there better Neo? was doing two things at once. :P :roll:

[NeoPendragon]

Human AI? :P

[SNAFU]

Human AI? :P

Military Intelligence? Political Think-Tank? Theoretical Physics?

This species is officially SNAFU'ed...

[Jocke]

Military Intelligence? Political Think-Tank? Theoretical Physics?
Microsoft Works, Government Organization, Dodge Ram...
Oxymoron list (http://www.oxymoronlist.com)

[Anonymous]

I'm a total newbie; I'm sure some of you may recognize me from in game. I'm a TDP and Metal Age vetern though, played through both on expert yadda yadda, so I'm not a newbie to the whole 'stealth' thing.

But I'm finding this game insanely difficult to get the hang of. I tried learning the map in single player, but there's so many of them and, to put it plainly, it's really boring. I just can't be bothered, really. In game, it's really hard, much harder than the two Thiefs. The human guards catch sight of me once and I can't get away, they jump me and brain me no matter how far I run. Oh well.

In game, I try to follow other players and such, and sometimes can do pretty well. Other times I do poorly, mostly because I don't know the map well. I figure as I play more the better I'll get.

As for the people I experience, they've been nothing but helpful. Once, on folly, I was the last thief alive, and all the dead guys helped guide me to the objectives. I died, of course, but I was happy that they tried. My last session was also helpful -- when it became clear I was clueless, everyone started giving me advice and such, and offers for me to follow them. I wish I remember their names...impervious or something was one, greivous something another?

All in all, my overall impression of the Thievery community, though miniscule, is quite helpful and polite. Soon I will get to know more of the levels (now I am well aqauinted with only Aquatone).

In the meantime I will study the guides and such and continue to blunder about getting stabbed.

[Ghostly apparition]

i beleive it was impulse and Garlisk
I showed up late for the aquatone map
but everyone was helping him
:thumb: :thumb:

great guys! this is what i would like to see more of.
keep up the good work

And you will get better the more you play.
this mod is great fun! :joking:

[LaughingRat]

Aquatone actually has one of the more confusing layouts, due to it's ratmaze like structure and the fact that there's nowhere to view it from above as you can with some of the other maps. If you're well acquainted with it, you're well on your way.

Try doing some spectating. Watch what other players do, how they flush out thieves, or escape rabid guards intent on mayhem. You won't be able to actually DO those things right off, you'll need to practice those techniques to make them work, but at least you'll have something specific to work on.

[-=V12US=-]

Aquatone actually has one of the more confusing layouts, due to it's ratmaze like structure and the fact that there's nowhere to view it from above as you can with some of the other maps. If you're well acquainted with it, you're well on your way.

Try doing some spectating. Watch what other players do, how they flush out thieves, or escape rabid guards intent on mayhem. You won't be able to actually DO those things right off, you'll need to practice those techniques to make them work, but at least you'll have something specific to work on.

Hah, the first couple of weeks I had no idea where I was going in Aquatone, especcially the vents were confusing.

I'd just crawl around and jump through a grate, hoping there wasn't a guard around.

[LaughingRat]

Oh, gawd! Those vents!!

[Aggamemnon]

Euphrates, You were doing okay considering the aggro guards that night..... welcome to the mod and hope you get good at either 1.sniping, 2.KOing, or 3, ghosting...hehe :thumb: Escape artiste is also a decent profession.

PS, flash invis and catfall work wonders (hmm just notices there no "Sly" smilie here) guess its :ninja: now eh

[Yenzarill]

One of the best ways to improve your thieving is to play guard.

[-=V12US=-]

Euphrates, You were doing okay considering the aggro guards that night..... welcome to the mod and hope you get good at either 1.sniping, 2.KOing, or 3, ghosting...hehe :thumb: Escape artiste is also a decent profession.

PS, flash invis and catfall work wonders (hmm just notices there no "Sly" smilie here) guess its :ninja: now eh

Heh, I pulled some mad escape tricks in BreakOut yesterday, :)

The guards were everywhere, yet I somehow managed to shake of three (3) guards while paralysed and low on health :D

One of my better moments :)

[Aggamemnon]

LOve doing things like that, although there isnt usually 3-4 guards left by the time i see the humans :lol:

[NeoPendragon]

Breakout is acually fairly easy sometimes. Just get 2 moss arrows and invis and whatever else. Use moss and invis to get through the A/B doors, get the loot as fast as you can and remember to use the flashbombs you get from the storage rooms.

[Stakhanov]

Speaking of Breakout , it's somehow a noob unfriendly map really... if you drop a key outside the blocks your team is dead (it happened to me a few hours ago , as a guard opened the door before I actually unlocked it , and killed me after a long chase... I forgot to drop the key before the door. Damn it)
The vineable wooden beams aren't that easy to aim at , too. Plus the sentrie's sensivity is hard to figure (can spot you from weird angles when you open the middle upper cells for exemple ; yet can't spot you when you crawl straight ahead of it)

[Anonymous]

:ninja: