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Thread: Killing Floor release.

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Killing Floor release.

    Hello all, after a pleasant period of being out in the sun I have returned to my cellar/cave to read numerous articles religiously that do not pertain nor improve my standard of life. Now I see that out of the trio of ut 2004 mods that placed in the "make something unreal" contest" TWO have gone retail(Red Orchestra and Killing Floor in a week), leaving Alien Swarm as the last one to be released or gone gold. I'm not quit sure exactly why news or updates have pretty much halted for Alien Swarm since it looked nearly complete, but why not follow in the vein of the KF mod creators and ask for support from Tripwire? Tripwire took KF's potential and in under a year polished it into a full retail game. So if something is disastrous in the works why not contact them and see if they will give Black Cat an opportunity or extra manpower to complete the game? Maybe if you guys get some support the game will be released before Duke Nukem Forever and will not be a release of Daikatana proportions. Why else would you leave your most humblest fans in the dark? I should be the role model for #1 fan with the most humbleness. I say this humbly of course.
    Please debate intelligently or we will settle this in a game of counter troll.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator BiG_D's Avatar
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    KF is a giant piece of shit.

    I recall that I demanded a public apology from the dev team before lowering myself to trying any further versions of that mod after the bullshit that was the first two. I stand by that.

    I'll wait for Swarm. I would like a complete game, not a "we don't have anyone who knows how to program but we'll make a game anyway" sort of game.
    It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

  3. #3
    Member Aggamemnon's Avatar
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    D said it perfectly.


    Have fun with KF, obviously you're capable of pulling yourself away from such a gem to post this eh.

  4. #4
    Member Schleicher's Avatar
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    So the point is "Youre unable to finish AS so hand it to Tripwire" ? Harsh. :O

    As for KF it was fun enough for awhile, dunno whats with the hating. Not sure if that warrants putting it into a box and demanding money for it tho >:p

  5. #5
    Member DarkLord75's Avatar
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    Tripwire took KF's potential and in under a year polished it into a full retail game.
    What potential?

    I actually forced myself to play through all KF versions from the beta to the 2.0 (I like it painful, if you haven't noticed). It went from bad to worse. Every version added just a few more bugs and only corrected a handful of the previous ones.

    I guess what tipped me off was the creative direction the game was going.
    "Hi popular zombie game, can I take something from you to make my game slightly more popular?"
    "Spera: Ooh! Ooh! You hear that? A bird singing out amidst our desolation. It's a miracle. The miracle called supper."

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  6. #6
    Member Moses2k's Avatar
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    I wanted to like it.

  7. #7
    Member Carth's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wanted to like it. It was zombie co-op!

    I'll wait and see what Tripwire have made of it in reviews/demo. Given that I didn't like Killing Floor or Red Orchestra, I'm not getting my hopes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by BiG_D View Post
    "we don't have anyone who knows how to program but we'll make a game anyway"
    Sounds like you were there in the KF design meetings!
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  8. #8
    Was that the one where you had to find a shop between waves but never could and then ran out of ammo and died horribly frantically bashing zombies with a shovel? I played it for about 30 minutes before I realised that they had a really tense feeling of being overwhelmed that was utterly ruined by not having a jeffing clue about game design.
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  9. #9
    Super Moderator BiG_D's Avatar
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    You forgot about the two hour struggle to join a server without triggering the bug that stops the round from starting, but yeah that's the one.
    It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

  10. #10
    Member Moses2k's Avatar
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    I enjoyed playing, but every team, no matter, it seemed, how good, lost on the 7th or 8th wave (IIRC). Anybody else notice that?

  11. #11
    Member Schleicher's Avatar
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    Recalling very fuzzy memories 7th wave was about average we-did-good-but-its-time-to-die...time.

    Looked at a trailer recently and i dunno, it got a graphical overhaul but maps/zombies seem to be the same, no other gameplay additions seems like. Used to be Invasion RPG with zombies and money instead of xp and now its L4D Survival with some class abilities and more weapons and money. But who knows mebbe the exact same people who went all "Aploo l4d is just some multiplayer mod im not gonna buy that" will pay readily for a graphic update, would be funny :p

  12. #12
    Why all the giant hate towards Killing Floor? What bugs are you talking about? Seemed pretty fine and stable to me. And yea the 7th or 8th rounds are close to impossible but hey that's the fun of it. Sounds D is being a hater because they are actually gonna have a huge release with tons of zombie killing goodness while we wait and fantasize about Alien Swarm. Sad
    Trust me, if KF was as bad as you say(which is baloney) they wouldn't have been bought by Tripwire who in fact WON the "make something unreal contest".
    Give props to Alex were it is due, at least he LISTENS and TALKS to his community and doesn't think his behind doesn't stink.
    Instead of bashing maybe you should look at the advice about getting another indie developer to co-develop Alien Swarm.


    Quote Originally Posted by BiG_D View Post
    You forgot about the two hour struggle to join a server without triggering the bug that stops the round from starting, but yeah that's the one.
    The two hour struggle for finding a server comment coming from someone who plays Alien Swarm is a little goofy. Irony senses tingling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggamemnon View Post
    D said it perfectly.


    Have fun with KF, obviously you're capable of pulling yourself away from such a gem to post this eh.
    How can I pull myself from a gem that hasn't been released?
    You guys for some reason are trying to use "KF is shit" as an excuse for a company that basically said "stfu" to its community a long time ago and slammed the doors of its progress in our face.

  13. #13
    Member Aggamemnon's Avatar
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    There were loads of bugs, and the gem is the mod, which you are obviously bored of a long time ago, unlike swarmers, who play it daily, Hell, even thievery has a daily playercount better than Killing Floor believe me.

    KF was a semi-okay tide me over mod years ago, it's not come very far since, and anyone wanting some Zed killing survival action will stick to L4D.

    Don't talk about bashing something when that's all you have done about Black Cat Games on there own damn forum, cheeky get.

    If you're bitter about something keep it to yourself, most people are very happy with both Black Cats previous mods, and upcoming games, why would they sell themselves out to a company that deals in shit.

  14. #14
    Member Bucchus's Avatar
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    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but Red Orchestra and the retail Killing Floor use Unreal engine, right? (Because of the license and all that)

    Surely you realize that Alien Swarm: Infested is being developed for Source? Even though your suggestion that Black Cat should team up with Tripwire so it would get released is already a bit silly all things considering, I'd have thought Tripwire specializes in Unreal engine stuff. So let's scrap all the progress that's been worked on Infested and start off a retail game from scratch on the Alien Swarm mod?

    In my opinion, Black cat never said "stfu to the community and slammed the doors on progress". It is being worked on more than ever, I am confident on that (also, I know ) Yet again the major public for some reason clamors for new screenies and all that every week.... Screw pre-hype! I think that Infested will be a major hit just because people haven't been able to chew through all the details pre-release. The surprises in gameplay will taste so sweet once it's out. If you can't take the waiting (okay, it's been many years, so what? Play something else in the meantime), go whining elsewhere. There are tons of devoted fans who can still take the wait.

    I'd like to join in the Killing Floor bashing but I can't bash it otherwise than based on the first released versions (which totally sucked ). I've no idea how far the retail version has come from there but eh, it's going to be even more compared to L4D than other similar games just because they're both zombies. Is there hope for a commercial success there?
    My cats are black! How about yours?

  15. #15
    Member Machine's Avatar
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    Left 4 Dead is the definitive zombie survival game of today, nice graphics, great multi-player, frequent updates and decent replay ability. Killing floor from what I recall was a cumbersome amateur effort I don't wish to revisit.

    I'll forgive your Black cat bashing as ignorance given your short time on these forums. Cross me again tho, and by jove, I'll find you, and eat your skin whilst you sleep. (IRL).

    ~TuF~

  16. #16
    Member DarkLord75's Avatar
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    What bugs are you talking about? Seemed pretty fine and stable to me.
    What did you do every time the game crashed/you got randomly DCed/you couldn't even connect?

    Cover your eyes and go "LALALALA this is not happening"?

    Trust me, if KF was as bad as you say(which is baloney) they wouldn't have been bought by Tripwire who in fact WON the "make something unreal contest".
    Did you see the other competitors? You could count the professional mods with the fingers of one hand.
    "Spera: Ooh! Ooh! You hear that? A bird singing out amidst our desolation. It's a miracle. The miracle called supper."

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  17. #17
    Member Carth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pataran View Post
    Give props to Alex were it is due, at least he LISTENS and TALKS to his community and doesn't think his behind doesn't stink.
    I found this particularly funny, because my experience was the exact opposite. KF was riddled with bugs, it was poorly programmed and often unplayable. People simply reporting the bugs on his forum were insulted by Alex. He was horrible to them. And he would often go off on a diatribe about how hard it is doing it all and he'd like to see you do better. To someone who just said "hey when you do this and that, it sometimes isn't possible to do this any more".

    Heaven forbid someone new to the forums reports a bug that was already known about. I think at one point he said he would ignore any posts about bugs.

    One of the main problems with the mod imo was his attitude. I just don't think he was a very nice person, or he was under way too much stress. Either way, one of the reasons I didn't give it multiple chances with later releases was because of how he treated the players, and how holier than thou he was. It wasn't even towards me personally either, it was against other players who I then tried to defend.
    I think I can love you
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pataran
    Trust me, if KF was as bad as you say(which is baloney) they wouldn't have been bought by Tripwire who in fact WON the "make something unreal contest".
    Straaange.... I heard rumors that ALEX approached Tripwire and not the opposite. But not sure tho, have to relook it.

    I used to like KF when played on lan. But it's nothing that I want to play for a longer time. But I agree with the criticism. I made a small fix for the infinite pistol ammo bug, since I knew a player would exploit it and spoil our matches. I didn't tell him - but I enjoyed watching him being pissed about that his pistols didn't do any damage .


    Quote Originally Posted by pataran
    Give props to Alex were it is due, at least he LISTENS and TALKS to his community and doesn't think his behind doesn't stink.
    Thet's actually the greatest joke ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by pataran
    Instead of bashing maybe you should look at the advice about getting another indie developer to co-develop Alien Swarm.
    No need to.

    AS:I should stay property of BCG imo. I bet they do a good job and take care for releasing something good.

    Simple economy stuff: quality ~ development time.

    Quote Originally Posted by pataran
    How can I pull myself from a gem that hasn't been released? You guys for some reason are trying to use "KF is shit" as an excuse for a company that basically said "stfu" to its community a long time ago and slammed the doors of its progress in our face.
    Not really. Just out of couriosity Pataran, but did you ever work on a mod or do you have experience in development? When I relook your threads/post you just seem to come and mourn/complain/whine that ASI isn't released yet (or any updates). Sry for saying that. Devving is a hard job and it takes up masses of time. And just because you don't see results quickly enough it doesn't mean they will fail at all.

    I just don't know what the fuzz is all about. So the point is that BCG isn't going to make it in the desired time so they should hand it to someone else to finish? Just wait and when it's done it's done. Let them do their jobs and post some positive comments rather then pissing them off with any pessimistic complainment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggamemnon
    If you're bitter about something keep it to yourself, most people are very happy with both Black Cats previous mods, and upcoming games, why would they sell themselves out to a company that deals in shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carth
    People simply reporting the bugs on his forum were insulted by Alex. He was horrible to them.
    Absolutely. I loosely watched the forums for some months now. I guess lil Alex is just on for cash. Half a year before he started donations, so people can send him money for his mod and perhaps get some extra content (also depending on how much they donated of course). And now he reveals the news that he signed a deal that KF goes retail and they have to pay for it again! Kinda tricky isn't it? First asking for donations and when some people finally donated he tells everybody that they have to pay him anyway.

    Another thing I have seen twice so far was him insulting and flaming server hosters that used custom settings because they alterd it so that KF "isn't being played the way it was meant to be played any more". I know one of the hosters added a quadjump mutator for testing reasons but he wanted to remove it.

    Imagine the possibilites for Alex once he get the rights for the mod! Perhaps he can add some paragraphs so he can threaten server hosters that set the shopping time to something higher (90 seconds) with legal issues and grab off another stash of money!

    So much for "caring" and "listening" to his community.

    Of course this is just my personal opinion, but I followed the forums and stated my impressions.

    And did we tell you the name of the game, boy,
    We call it Riding the Gravy Train.
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 6th May 2009 at 07:32 PM. Reason: eek, typo

  19. #19
    Please tell me what crack you guys have smoked in the last 4-5 months. KF doesn't have any DC issues in 2.5 from what I've played(at least 30 hours of it). The only real game changing bug that I saw was the infinite pistol bug and some same difficulty issues.

    Also more people play Red Orchestra and Killing Floor than alien swarm by a landslide. RO nor tripwire is full of sh!t, the RO mod that went retail actually has 2x the content and fan made expansions than Alien Swarm.

    It's just ridiculous to compare the two and it feels that your going the fanboy route to marginalize other successful mods. And for the record, next to counter-strike, RO is one of the most successful mod to retail games on the market and has a wonderful and informative community.

    For some reason you are all wearing rose colored glasses comparing KF's gameplay and issues to Alien Swarm's issues. I see not a mention of the numerous bugs or design decisions that plagued Alien Swarm.

    For example, some of you say that Killing Floor or RO had terrible gameplay or balance decisions either from misguidance or unfair difficulty, blah blah. WAAA? Ok for starters, when first playing Alien Swarm how many times did you die from the first campaign? Lemme guess....DOZENS. Know why? Because in reality the Alien Swarm swarm mod had some MANY design issues as well.

    The game if you fairly look at it is a giant and LONG arudous affair of trial and error, trial and error. Someone complained about KF having poor direction but more than half the missions in swarm were RIDDLED with vague objectives and very little directons to how to complete them. Figuring out how to complete a missions, especially in the later issued campaigns was basically this -> Try objective, get confused, fail. ->Try objective again, succeed, get confused and fail next objective due to poor navigation or gameplay that was too frantic to get your bearings on wtf was going on. -> Succeed at first two objectives and fail third due to AGAIN poor pacing or navigation AD NAUSEM. See a pattern? Besides the hardcore players, it is a CHORE to get other casual friends to play this game due to the inate frustration it causes.Hopefully though Black Cat learned from this and streamlined goals or at the very least make normal mode's difficulty "normal" or hard "less than insane".

    The confusion of the game is primarily the reason alien swarm is such an insane challenge to many who play it. It's both its draw and its flaw. Stuff happens that surprise new players that gives absolutly no warning such as insta whole team exploding by getting your ammo bag flamed or facehugger aliens that come from every freakin corner and butt rape you into oblivion.

    The game is virtually die every 5 minutes of gameplay(until you practically memorize the maps) and wait in lobby to watch people switch out gear for another 2 minutes. It basically only appeals to a hardcore audience who dedicate the time to learn its inner workings.

    The same thing can't be said about KF. Sure it doesn't have the polish that AS has, but its made by a much smaller team with a different goal in mind as well. KF is more of a pick up and just play it kind of game. KF does its job well for what it IS. A nonstop survival zombie shooter.

    L4d in no way is an arguement to take away KF's appeal. KF is a slower paced shooter thats more about tactical spacing and conservation of ammo and resources. Zombies are all they really have in common gameplaywise. L4d is all about arcady, speedy, play that 100% depends on others for survival. It is in more of the vein of Alien Swarm in that respect, but I wouldn't go and say "O look, L4d is the best arcady teamwork game, how could swarm ever compare?"

    As for the Tripwire thing, I didn't intend to mean that tripwire should get all credit or hands on develop the game. I'm thinking if Alien Swarm is having publisher or release issues then why not try getting Tripwire to publish it since they have real experience in the arena AND come from the same UT 2004 cloth. Tripwire per se doesn't HAVE to develop the game itself just help in its release or help in general polishing.

    I close by saying that making a suggestion because you care or have a passion about a game doesn't make it 100% whining. I'm not the only one who feels this way nor the only one who is concerned about the fate or quality of swarm. I want the best for the game and black cat because they are one of my fav devs. I don't want to see our rather small community die out in obscurity because blackcat, ttlg, and swarm deserve better than that.

    Edit for better reading, and like paragraphs!
    Last edited by BrokenArts; 7th May 2009 at 07:08 AM.

  20. #20
    Member Machine's Avatar
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    FFS. I'm not even going to read that until you separate it into bloody paragraphs. Shoddy post development that is you know!
    ~TuF~

  21. #21
    Member Schleicher's Avatar
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    Heh woah :0

  22. #22

    BlackCat

    Quote Originally Posted by pataran View Post
    ...stuff...

    Agreed. AS was a damned hard game. Definitely not for the casual gamer. I remember during testing, one of the other devs asking me, after a grueling game or twenty, what I thought, and I replied with something like, "Now this the point where I go and play GuildWars."
    And I remember the time when the Telic campaign was released. I was on a real slow dial up, so it took over night to download. I installed it, and started it up. The first map loaded up, and I had no idea what to do, and the game ended because the team suffocated or something. I didn't even give it a second try. I deleted Telic and AS, and never played it for fun again.

    AS:I, however, is fun fun fun! And it's getting better everyday.

    I wish I could talk about it and show screenshots and stuff, but right now I have to keep tight-lipped.

  23. #23
    Member DarkLord75's Avatar
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    Thank you BA.

    Also more people play Red Orchestra and Killing Floor than alien swarm by a landslide. RO nor tripwire is full of sh!t, the RO mod that went retail actually has 2x the content and fan made expansions than Alien Swarm.
    Oh, we decide the quality of games by the number of people playing them now?

    It's just ridiculous to compare the two and it feels that your going the fanboy route to marginalize other successful mods. And for the record, next to counter-strike, RO is one of the most successful mod to retail games on the market and has a wonderful and informative community.
    Yes, we're all terrible fanbois. It's odd though, we never ignored any bugs within AS.
    Are we talking about KF here or RO?

    I see not a mention of the numerous bugs or design decisions that plagued Alien Swarm.
    Wait, what? Ask details in the AS forums regarding a certain infamous patch. Be on the lookout for Che references.

    Hopefully though Black Cat learned from this and streamlined goals or at the very least
    make normal mode's difficulty "normal" or hard "less than insane".
    I hope they did not. Normal was acceptable, and nobody forces you to play on hard/insane.

    rest of the stuff I won't bother dissecting like a mad scientist
    If AS:I was dead, I doubt Cythe would keep pulling us in with vague promises of awesome. Right. RIGHT?
    "Spera: Ooh! Ooh! You hear that? A bird singing out amidst our desolation. It's a miracle. The miracle called supper."

    --Lucifer #28, Breaking & Entering

  24. #24
    Super Moderator BiG_D's Avatar
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    Pataran. You are the one who started comparing Alien Swarm to kf here. Don't act like it was someone else.

    The game that I remember playing was only marginally fun, but so incredibly buggy it was an insult. If you want more details, go read through the other KF threads that are listed at the bottom of this very page as related threads.
    It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

  25. #25
    Member Ran-bot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythe View Post
    I wish I could talk about it and show screenshots and stuff, but right now I have to keep tight-lipped.
    I'm sure there's a reason there's a good reason for being tight-lipped, but it's a shame. Pataran and other trolls of his ilk are very annoying and I don't pay attention to their inane ramblings. However, it's clear that many of the die-hard fans are showing fatigue, and BCG being so tight-lipped doesn't help matters. I really don't mean for this to come off as an attack. I think we all understand that being an indy developer dealing with their first full-release game, and balancing your real life takes it's toll. I'm sure everyone is also confident that the final release will be superb and worth the wait. But still, an update or teaser of any sort would go a long way with many of us. If for whatever reason BCG really can't do that, then I hope that some day those that have waited patiently for so long get an explanation for BCG's silence.

  26. #26
    Oh, there's a plenty good explanation, alright.

  27. #27
    Member FixXxeR's Avatar
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    Double AS and Nightblade release!!?! /sob
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  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLord75 View Post
    Thank you BA.



    Oh, we decide the quality of games by the number of people playing them now?




    Yes, we're all terrible fanbois. It's odd though, we never ignored any bugs within AS.




    Wait, what? Ask details in the AS forums regarding a certain infamous patch. Be on the lookout for Che references.



    I hope they did not. Normal was acceptable, and nobody forces you to play on hard/insane.

    If AS:I was dead, I doubt Cythe would keep pulling us in with vague promises of awesome. Right. RIGHT?
    Well I def agree with you there.
    However the thread was initially about Tripwire releasing someone else's mod as a game on steam and maybe Black Cat could try following suit. But then members turned it into a quality or which game company has the bigger e-penis match.
    On the difficulty comment even normal mode in Alien Swarm had the majority of players giving up or quiting on the initial campaigns due to immense confusion(explosive timers combined with unlighted switches, not clearly marked areas etc) and the complexity of the gameplay and maps.
    Also when I mentioned the player base it was because a previous bcg member brought up how many play KF or RO versus Alien Swarm, I was saying otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ran-bot View Post
    I'm sure there's a reason there's a good reason for being tight-lipped, but it's a shame. Pataran and other trolls of his ilk are very annoying and I don't pay attention to their inane ramblings. However, it's clear that many of the die-hard fans are showing fatigue, and BCG being so tight-lipped doesn't help matters. I really don't mean for this to come off as an attack. I think we all understand that being an indy developer dealing with their first full-release game, and balancing your real life takes it's toll. I'm sure everyone is also confident that the final release will be superb and worth the wait. But still, an update or teaser of any sort would go a long way with many of us. If for whatever reason BCG really can't do that, then I hope that some day those that have waited patiently for so long get an explanation for BCG's silence.
    Hate to tell you I have no ilk on this forum. Also posting a topic and trying to stay within its bounds isn't trolling. If you read the post you will realize it is not rambling. A lot of what I said does have some value. Just now you also proved one of the points I was bringing up about how the silence on swarm has effected many members in the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythe View Post
    Agreed. AS was a damned hard game. Definitely not for the casual gamer. I remember during testing, one of the other devs asking me, after a grueling game or twenty, what I thought, and I replied with something like, "Now this the point where I go and play GuildWars."
    And I remember the time when the Telic campaign was released. I was on a real slow dial up, so it took over night to download. I installed it, and started it up. The first map loaded up, and I had no idea what to do, and the game ended because the team suffocated or something. I didn't even give it a second try. I deleted Telic and AS, and never played it for fun again.

    AS:I, however, is fun fun fun! And it's getting better everyday.

    I wish I could talk about it and show screenshots and stuff, but right now I have to keep tight-lipped.
    Fair enough

    Quote Originally Posted by BiG_D View Post
    Pataran. You are the one who started comparing Alien Swarm to kf here. Don't act like it was someone else.

    The game that I remember playing was only marginally fun, but so incredibly buggy it was an insult. If you want more details, go read through the other KF threads that are listed at the bottom of this very page as related threads.
    Read intial post, I in fact did not compare or talk about the quality nor mechanics of the games until it was brought up into question in defense of Alien Swarm. The whole thread slid into "the reason KF has been released as a full retail quickly was because it a buggy piece of crap" not "Tripwire actually released and polished their game". THAT was the major point of the topic, not opinions on what game sucks or not.
    Also I do beg you guys since KF has left a bad taste in your mouth to try 2.5. It was a very large overhaul in qaulity and might change your opinion since the intial releases are what most of you are upset about.
    Last edited by BiG_D; 7th May 2009 at 12:48 PM.

  29. #29
    I dunno, Im excited for KF's release. But I like Tripwire and was a big fan of RO (still am, play it often yet), unlike most of the people here.

    First thing I thought of when seeing KF was AS though. I spent a lot of time in that mod. The retail version just dropped off the radar though...
    Trucking the Bread all over your @$$!

  30. #30
    Member Ran-bot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pataran View Post
    Well I def agree with you there.
    However the thread was initially about Tripwire releasing someone else's mod as a game on steam and maybe Black Cat could try following suit. But then members turned it into a quality or which game company has the bigger e-penis match.
    On the difficulty comment even normal mode in Alien Swarm had the majority of players giving up or quiting on the initial campaigns due to immense confusion(explosive timers combined with unlighted switches, not clearly marked areas etc) and the complexity of the gameplay and maps.
    Also when I mentioned the player base it was because a previous bcg member brought up how many play KF or RO versus Alien Swarm, I was saying otherwise.


    Hate to tell you I have no ilk on this forum. Also posting a topic and trying to stay within its bounds isn't trolling. If you read the post you will realize it is not rambling. A lot of what I said does have some value. Just now you also proved one of the points I was bringing up about how the silence on swarm has effected many members in the community.



    Fair enough



    Read intial post, I in fact did not compare or talk about the quality nor mechanics of the games until it was brought up into question in defense of Alien Swarm. The whole thread slid into "the reason KF has been released as a full retail quickly was because it a buggy piece of crap" not "Tripwire actually released and polished their game". THAT was the major point of the topic, not opinions on what game sucks or not.
    Also I do beg you guys since KF has left a bad taste in your mouth to try 2.5. It was a very large overhaul in qaulity and might change your opinion since the intial releases are what most of you are upset about.
    Did anyone hear something? Like a distant drone or buzzing?

    /shrug

    /ignore

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