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Thread: Every Beginning Has an End...

  1. #1
    Member Biohazard's Avatar
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    Every Beginning Has an End...

    And sometimes that end comes much sooner than we would like. Yes, unfortunately I bring the news that many of you have seen coming now for quite some time. The Nightblade team has decided that we just don't have the manpower to complete the mod. Our latest recruiting drive brought in several excellent people, but ultimately it just wasn't going to be enough to deliver on the quality mod that you all expect and deserve from Black Cat Games.

    I would like to specifically thank Inq and Illuminus for their hard work over these last few months. They have been cranking out models left and right for new maps, only to have most of their work not get used. I'd also like to thank all the new recruits for the time they did put into the mod, and I'm sorry we couldn't get things rolling here.

    I will take full blame for this mod not coming together. I tried to get new recruits, but it turned out to be way more difficult than I anticipated. I can hardly blame them though, because in these economic times we all are focusing on our jobs more (including myself). It's also very difficult to get people excited about a mod that has already been designed.

    While some of you will be frustrated by our decision, I would ask you to consider the team members that have been working on this mod for years. A lot of work has been put into this and it's a more than a bit upsetting to see it end before we could finish it. I haven't talked with the team about it, but I'd assume we will release the rest of the content we have created in its unfinished state.

    Last, I'd like to thank the BCG community for always being so patient with us. It's nice to have a player base that is supportive even when things look so bleak. I'd also like to reassure you Alien Swarm'ers out there that our progress on Nightblade is in no way reflective of what the AS team has been doing. From what I understand, they are still chugging away at full speed.

    Game over.

    -Biohazard

  2. #2
    Hell no this can't be true!

    Is there nothing we can do about it, Bio?

    NB shouldn't end like this!

    You guys worked so hard on this, I don't care how long it takes! How is the resonance in the team? Where are the problems in the personal? Like which people are missing? (Mappers Coders Modellers etc.) So is there really NO way of saving the mod and the great work?

    So sad ...

    Regards,
    Trap

  3. #3
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    Farewell NightBlade, we hardly knew ye.
    So, the models etc that have been worked so hard on for the last 6 years, can we predict victorian/medieval era styled Alien Swarm maps from the NB devs?

    The Taff Campaign. The Galaxy is full of races, some more advanced than others. A recent alien swarm outbreak of the Taff Home Planet (Luke'Nglas) has led to your team being deployed to help save the Taffers. The planet was stuck in a form of strange victorian and medieval fantasy styled world, things should be .... interesting out there.



    How about some screenshots of the Work In Progress, that the team had been working on before this demise?

    Chief
    Like which people are missing? (Mappers Coders Modellers etc.)
    My magic 8-ball predicts a coder.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator BiG_D's Avatar
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    Too bad. No doubt an incredibly difficult decision. I hope everyone can appreciate that, and your ability to be up front and honest about it.
    It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

  5. #5
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    I hardly think anyone here is going to set up a private lynch mod against Bio, I think that though he says he's taken responsibility of its closure, I'm sure the many aspects of resulting in his making the decision aren't his fault really.

  6. #6
    Member Illuminus's Avatar
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    It has been a fun working on the project and personally have learned much from it. It is sad to not see it resulting in anything . I would like to thank Immort and oRGy, you guys are great in what you do and really hope to see you returning to modding at some point. Also, thanks to Bio for trying try revive it (you did awesome man) and to Inq for sticking around to help with modelling some great stuff!

    How about some screenshots of the Work In Progress, that the team had been working on before this demise?
    Sure, ill collect some of the work and post it in here. Ill encourge Inq to post some of his models as well.

    And yea, the ship was sinking way before Bio tried to revive it. So i say "Pff" at him taking the blame

  7. #7
    Cmon is there nothing that can be done about it ? I already tried to apply Ive sent bio a pm one or two weeks ago. I can both code and map (and I am even willing to learn/specialize on UT3 mapping for NB!) and surely also some other stuff.

    Perhaps even more people would apply if they know more about to what they are applying. And some solid conception info would surely be good for waking interest.

    Please dont give up yet!

  8. #8
    Member Schleicher's Avatar
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    Eh you are to be commended for trying to get this running despite the obvious lack of manpower. Ambitious and maybe abit foolish since the decision what dies and what lives has been made long ago. But how does the ol book of lies say, "God gives, God takes".

    Maybe you can put your models up somewhere for use by mappers or something. <<

  9. #9
    Member Illuminus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schleicher View Post
    Eh you are to be commended for trying to get this running despite the obvious lack of manpower. Ambitious and maybe abit foolish since the decision what dies and what lives has been made long ago. But how does the ol book of lies say, "God gives, God takes".

    Maybe you can put your models up somewhere for use by mappers or something. <<
    At least it can still be used. All the hours of coding Immort must have put into it

  10. #10
    Member Firetiger's Avatar
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    Ahh well that's disappointing. Not just for us but surely for everyone involved. So, what happens to BCG then? Is it AS, period, or are there other projects in consideration?
    <-- Resident Nightblade suggestion attorney...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Schleicher View Post
    Eh you are to be commended for trying to get this running despite the obvious lack of manpower.
    Sounds like a compliment uuh.

    Well BCG is known for it's stealth games and AS games, so I think it should stick to it.

    Atleast it would be good to know, what people are missing to bring on the development. And in order to atleast attract talented people you need to give out some info.

    For example, you can't map for NB, simply because you don't know how the gameplay will work. And a mapper needs to know this so he can match his design/conception to the gametype.

    Thus far the only thing we know is that it has victorian style, which isn't too helpful for getting an idea how maps should look like.

    I'd say release some stuff / conception documents so people can first take a look at it. But at all, I think NB should still be under control of BCG. Atleast for a while to see if there are really no persons interested.
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 7th May 2009 at 02:56 PM.

  12. #12
    Member Illuminus's Avatar
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    To clarify a few things... AS split the development team into a "not so official" and "official" group. The "not so official" group worked on Nightblade while the other started AS and then AS:I. The closure of the "not so official" group will hopefully clear this confusion and simplify future plans.

  13. #13
    Member Schleicher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapmaster View Post
    Sounds like a compliment uuh.
    Wut? :p

    PS : On top of the whole thing being fairly similar to TUT there were also regular alphas and there also is a NB recruitment forums section with the open positions in need listed.

  14. #14
    Yes but it's not precise on how urgent the need is. Or how many people they have of each section (X mappers, Y coders, ...)

    Haha, A "not so official Blackcatgames" Product
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 7th May 2009 at 02:58 PM.

  15. #15
    Member Bandit's Avatar
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    Actually, it isn't bad news because now everyone may focus on Thievery.
    Do not drop what you made and put it into TUT.

    IMHO only incurable optimists were waiting for Night-Blade.

  16. #16
    lol, incurable optmists also dream of a TUT 1.7 . (Which I would appreciate too, of course)

    I guess the main question would be:

    How do YOU (the inofficial BCG devs / NB dev team members) think about this? Would you like to go on?

  17. #17
    Member Illuminus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapmaster View Post
    lol, incurable optmists also dream of a TUT 1.7 . (Which I would appreciate too, of course)

    I guess the main question would be:

    How do YOU (the inofficial BCG devs / NB dev team members) think about this? Would you like to go on?
    I think all of us wanted to see it to the end, but at some point you have to accept when something isn't working out.

  18. #18
    Very sad...

    Where were the problems? You and Inq are amazing modellers and Immortius is a very skilled coder. And oRGy always has cool design twists and lyrical knowledge.

  19. #19
    Member Rodent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    Actually, it isn't bad news because now everyone may focus on Thievery.
    Do not drop what you made and put it into TUT.
    A sterling idea. Thievery still remains the best stealth fps to date.
    Nightwarden,
    .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
    - "Earth dons the red; calls the maggots."

  20. #20
    Although I would like to see a TUT1.7, I doubt it will happen.Oh well... back to look on ATUT things...

    NB has been so long with BCG it feels strange loosing it now.
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 7th May 2009 at 08:05 PM.

  21. #21
    Member Inq's Avatar
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    There's not point in working on the original ThieveryUT for me, it's just way too old and the community there will only dwindle over the coming years. That's just because the game is long passed its heyday. I joined up on Nightblade mainly as a learning exercise (and in that respect it was a big success for me). I would be more than happy to continue working on the project, but realistically there's a certain amount of animosity that comes from doing work for something you know isn't going to happen.

    The big problem was that even with direction, nobody really did enough quickly enough to actually make reasonable progress. When working on one of these projects, you have to treat it like a job and really get stuck into it. I don't think we, including myself, did enough on that front.

    The only thing you can really hope for guys, is that once the "official" BCG team are wrapped up on Alien Swarm, and I'm not clear on their progress on those games, they may take a look at Nightblade and notice that there's the core materials there to pick it up and get it finished relatively quickly compared to starting a game from scratch. That's just optimistic musing by me though, you'd probably have to pummel the idea into them.

    I'll look for some pics of models to post up soon.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Inq View Post
    The big problem was that even with direction, nobody really did enough quickly enough to actually make reasonable progress. When working on one of these projects, you have to treat it like a job and really get stuck into it. I don't think we, including myself, did enough on that front.
    Well I'd say thats just normal considering RL issues that all of us had.

    So you think, even with new team members it wouldn't have been enough?

    Oh n btw, I still hope to see you online from time to time

  23. #23
    Member Inq's Avatar
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    You have to find the right sort of people to work on these projects who get more enjoyment out of taking part in a project and doing the work (instead of just talking about doing the work) to really get far. Unfortunately, those sort of people are a rare commodity and are usually already taken.

  24. #24
    Member Bucchus's Avatar
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    Bugger. Guess I'll have to attend the wake and toast The Mod That Never Came To Be one last time. This leaves a sort of game-ecological niche to be filled...

    Oh well, takes guts to face the music and admit the inevitable, thanks and respects to the devs for that... Maybe there still is hope for this to resurface one day
    My cats are black! How about yours?

  25. #25
    Hm I get the point. So I guess the newcomers didn't do much stuff?

    I was hoping for that you guys would release some stuff first so interested people could take a look over. It was something that kept me off from joining for very long (I didn't even like NB). The problem is you can't join something that you don't know what it's about. Don't underestimate that, it was a huge hindrance for me. Currently there isn't much information that lets you get an idea on what you have to expect - like the look of the maps - gameplay and all that kind of stuff. You just can't even go and start a map because you don't know how the gametype will work. (and personally, starting a map with no idea on how it will play is something that I try to avoid. The aim should be that stuff has to be planned before creating it.)

    If I wouldve known about NBs serious situation I wouldve already applied earlier I guess. When I wrote bio, my main problems were that I didn't have much stuff (or the right stuff) to show around. Basically I focused on UT99. UT3 had so less stuff that I felt no desire to map for it, so I couldn't show around much UT3 stuff, although I know how things work on UT3 Engine (funny tho that I still read those (UT3) mapping guides ) And on the coding site, there wasnt much to show around either, since most stuff isn't written in english - would get a hard time for everybody to read through it. Although I guess I'm a good coder and perhaps could even handle some NB stuff.
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 8th May 2009 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Meant UT3 Mapping guides of course! (And not NB mapping guides, theyre fine!)

  26. #26
    Super Moderator BiG_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapmaster View Post
    I was hoping for that you guys would release some stuff first so interested people could take a look over.
    Were the dozens of alpha releases not good enough to count as "stuff"?
    It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

  27. #27
    Member immortius's Avatar
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    The alpha releases contain the majority of what we had done. I'm not sure what else we could have made available.

    I find it sad that it ends like this, but I can certainly understand it. It seems that UT3 is not a popular engine for modders (perhaps Epic would do well to try and make Gears of War their modding platform), so recruitment has always been hard.

    I certainly learnt a lot in the 4-5 years I was working on the various incarnations of Nightblade, and it was great working with everyone. I'm sure I've made mistakes too that have contributed to Nightblade's failure - I'm certainly more at fault than Biohard who so kindly took on the already troubled project.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by BiG_D View Post
    Were the dozens of alpha releases not good enough to count as "stuff"?
    I see, sorry for not specifying. Well I was more refering to descriptions like how the gametype works or some conception arts/ map layouts etc. so some basic documentation stuff in general.

    From what I know it should still be different from TUT so it wouldve been good to see in what direction maps should go. For example, Single obj items in TUT have mostly been placed in lit rooms (like Geromes library). Some people think it didn't work well, so it would be interesting how the direction in NB would have looked like or if the approach has changed. So actually, I geuss I was more refering to the basic mechanics how a map should work like.


    Hm Immortius, does this mean that the lates in-work version is much of the content of the latest alpha release?
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 8th May 2009 at 09:41 AM. Reason: forgot a word

  29. #29
    Member Inq's Avatar
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    I did actually urge for a promotion document clearly clarifying everything and showing the project in its best light. Unfortunately we didn't really have much to work with to do it.

  30. #30
    That sounds nice Inq . It would surely improve things.

    Unfortunately we didn't really have much to work with to do it.
    Perhaps this wouldn't even be a problem, as long as you also document what you intend to do / in what direction you want to go / how you want the game mechanics etc., and all those things.

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