Thievery Mapping Basics

[willy_poodle]

I'm trying to figure out how to make a map for Thievery and of course I use some UT tutorials. A lot of them are long gone now, though.
Maybe there are some shortcuts or hints people who already have made some maps could share?
I mean something straight to the point.

What is the optimal size of Thievery map?
How to check size of the world cube in ready maps I open?

Please help me with the beginnings.

1. I substract a cube and add some texture or leave the default one.
2. I add ZoneInfo actor in the cube
3. I substract another, smaller cube for skybox, add texture and SkyZoneInfo in it.
4. I set main cube ceiling and walls as Fake Backdrop.
5. I add light in the skybox

Is that correct?
What kind of light and how bright should I use for a night map with starred sky texture?

I tried to make some terrain in UE 3.0 first and hoped I could use it then in UE 2.0, but I guess that's impossible.
UE 2.0 doesn't have such terrain tools as 3.0 so I think I'll start with a flat base.
But should I add any terrain info in the cube first? I can't see TerraInfo actor as in 3.0. Do I just build on the cube floor?
Can I form the landscape after the buildings?

Which spawn point actor is for what? there are:
ThieveryBSpawnPoint
ThieveryDSpawnPoint
ThieveryPSpawnPoint

B, D and P don't look like abbreviations of "Thief" or "Guard" to me.
ThiefMatch and Rat spawns are obvious.

What should be the next step?

What should I do right away during the building and what to leave for later?

[Keggie]

What is the optimal size of Thievery map?
How to check size of the world cube in ready maps I open?

will vary from map to map... hard to say for sure, check out a map like gerome/grange for a decentish size. make it as large or as small as you like tbh id recommend a smallish map, not many people play these days

1. I substract a cube and add some texture or leave the default one.
2. I add ZoneInfo actor in the cube
3. I substract another, smaller cube for skybox, add texture and SkyZoneInfo in it.
4. I set main cube ceiling and walls as Fake Backdrop.
5. I add light in the skybox
Is that correct?

sounds right so far, only don't add a zoneinfo actor, add a thieveryzoneinfo actor, i cannot recall why tho, been to long since i did it... might be something to do with naming the zone or something...might be nothing at all, i just recall using it

What kind of light and how bright should I use for a night map with starred sky texture?

take a look at the other maps, will also depend on the map your making, nostalgia has a nice sky box for a city map. just play around with it till you think it looks good

I tried to make some terrain in UE 3.0 first and hoped I could use it then in UE 2.0, but I guess that's impossible.
UE 2.0 doesn't have such terrain tools as 3.0 so I think I'll start with a flat base.
But should I add any terrain info in the cube first? I can't see TerraInfo actor as in 3.0. Do I just build on the cube floor?
Can I form the landscape after the buildings?

yeah you cannot use 3.0 terrain in 2.0, in 2.0 you create the terrain in BSP, like any other brush, bit fiddley and its very likely to crash your unrealed till you know how to do it and what not to do, tbh id leave the terrain out of it if possible. how you create terrain again depends on how you build your map. take a look at stronghold map, that mapper made the terrain first then added brushes to create the keep.

Which spawn point actor is for what? there are:
ThieveryBSpawnPoint
ThieveryDSpawnPoint
ThieveryPSpawnPoint

B, D and P don't look like abbreviations of "Thief" or "Guard" to me.
ThiefMatch and Rat spawns are obvious.

don't use em, i think the normal playerstart is for thief team. Guard lives depend on the AI guards, if you have 5 AI guards on the map, the guard team have 5 lives, when a guard spawns then he takes over one of the AI. the thieveryspawnpoint can be used to create random spawn points that don't take up a life iirc, highway inn used them but rather badly imo. for guard ai, look under... pawn i think, the class you want is TKnight, you can take your pick from a selection, TKnightArcher etc (or something like that)

What should be the next step?

buildings/rooms and layout! worry about how the map looks later. map gameplay > map looks

What should I do right away during the building and what to leave for later?

leave loot/lighting for end, concentrate on layout and routes for now, i suggest making a small map to start with, thieverys pretty dead so you wont get many players on it, and small maps have a much higher chance of been played and completed.

id offer to help and test but i don't have tut installed, Also i don't know if you have seen it or not, but thievery website has a few tutorials for some custom actors for late on

http://www.thieveryut.com/Mapping/index.htm

hope that's helpful

[willy_poodle]

check out a map like gerome/grange for a decentish size.

But how to check the size of a cube already substracted? I can't find it in the brush properties.

What light should I use while building to see anything in the playtest.

Do you mean choose playerstart without unfolding it?

Also i don't know if you have seen it or not, but thievery website has a few tutorials for some custom actors for late on
http://www.thieveryut.com/Mapping/index.htm

Yeah, I've seen it, but I guess it's a long way to that stuff.

Is there any difference, if it comes to bugs and memory usage, if I build from sheets or substracting from cubes?

And do you think it's pointless now to make it at all?

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And BTW why does this forum log me out in such a short time?

[Asaltec..SaitoNai]

Unless there is an easy way:

I haven't used ued2 since 2000+ something. Just to hazard a couple of guesses:

1.You might see if its possible to use vertex editing mode to get the size of a brush that is already subtacted:
find its subtracted wireframe and use vertex editing mode to get the coordinates of the points ... and then do a little math

2. Export the brush to t3d and use a text editor to get the coordinates of its vertices ... and then do a little math

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:T3D_File#Exporting_T3D

[Keggie]

But how to check the size of a cube already substracted? I can't find it in the brush properties.

you could do as above, or you could just open an exsisting map then create a builder brush to try and match the size, then just keep resizing till its about right...

What light should I use while building to see anything in the playtest.

open the level properties or all the zoneinfos/thieveryzoneinfos and change the ambiantbrightness to about 30, will light up all the map

Do you mean choose playerstart without unfolding it?

yeah i think that is correct, been long time but im pretty sure

Is there any difference, if it comes to bugs and memory usage, if I build from sheets or substracting from cubes?

wouldnt know. however i normaly found too many sheets was asking for glitches, sheets should only be used for decoration imo. think i only ever used it for masked decoration and water. Also know that sheets are non-solid, so players can run/fall through them

And do you think it's pointless now to make it at all?

well i dont think i've seen anyone on the servers playing for a few months now, but if you create a playable map theres prob a few people about who will appear for a few games. its never pointles making anything if you like doing it

And BTW why does this forum log me out in such a short time?

clever ploy to discourage long essay posts i believe

[willy_poodle]

I used wrong word. I didn't actually mean "sheets sheets".
I meant building from single walls and ceilings vs. extracting from added cubes.

It seems a bit strange that you can't see the size in brush properties, but ok, i'll do it the way around if I still need it.

[Keggie]

I used wrong word. I didn't actually mean "sheets sheets". I meant building from single walls and ceilings vs. extracting from added cubes.

noooo no no no, add a brush as a big square/rectangle(whatever) for the building, then subtract rooms inside it. you can do it the other way, but i wouldnt recomend it. in theory its better to have a fully subtractive map if possible i think but not essentual. that normaly depends on the style of map anyway.

[Edy94]

I used wrong word. I didn't actually mean "sheets sheets".
I meant building from single walls and ceilings vs. extracting from added cubes.

Don't repeat the mistake i did xd. Your poly-count will grow faster then the bugs will appear.

[Keggie]

yeah, also make sure you use grid size 16 or greater for the basic building layouts... should try and avoid going lower if possible.

[Asaltec..SaitoNai]

I just checked something in UED2.
To get the properties of a brush (like the positions of its vertices), you can click on the subtacted/added brush and do a "Copy" on it, and then open a text editor and do a "Paste" and voila-or-something: the brush properties appear. Each "Begin Polygon" block comes with a list of vertices, each "Vertex" gives you an X,Y,Z coordinate. Each polygon shares some vertices with the other polygons, but you can probably paste the entire list of individual vertices into Excel, or OpenOffice Calc and sort them by value to figure out which vertices are unique (or write a quickee script to figure it out). Applying some mathematics to those vertices will get the brush size.