View Poll Results: Is crate stacking a valid guard tactic?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • I believe this is a valid guard tactic.

    19 55.88%
  • I believe this is a cheap (but valid) guard tactic. It is up to the guards at the entrance if it is ok.

    11 32.35%
  • I believe this is not a valid guard tactic. It is far too unfair to the thieves.

    3 8.82%
  • I have no comment on this topic.

    1 2.94%
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Thread: crate stacking

  1. #1
    i hear that it was fixed in some way in 1.2, how i do not know.

    during a game with someone on bourgeious eventually it was 3 guards vs one thief. one of the guards came to my usual attic location and started to seemingly toss crates on the stairs. now, i eventually heard that it was fixed in 1.2 and was easy to move.

    however, i still don't believe it should be done. at least, not when there are 2 guards waiting in teh room (one with a mace, the other a firebolt). then it just becomes far too cheap. eveery second matters then, and even if you can just jump over the crate it is still a second lost.

    so, i would like to ask the entire community. not just the guards that yelled at me for slashing crates (generally when i see a crate stacker i move the crates. if they keep tossing them down, i break them so he can;t use them anymore). i know i can't get people to stop. but i would at least hope that they would still give the thief a chance.

  2. #2
    The thief has a chance. The scepter isn't necessary to win Bourgeois.

    Furthermore, the crates were put in the game to be USED.

    *waits for the day Gundy plays against Dalai online....*

  3. #3
    yeah. i understand sometimes it is good. but what i am saying is that the thief would not stand a chance in that room (where an item that is almost necessary to get. unless you want to search the entire map. and with one thief left that would not be a smart idea).

    they get slowed down by the trops at the door. then the crates on the steps. all the time getting shot with firebolts and smacked with maces.

    that is kind of overkill and unncessary if you ask me.

    and i kinda made a mistake when i voted, so always take one off of the always unfair option, and put that in the unfair, but can be agreed on by the guards at the door.

    if a mod would like to edit that for me. hint hint

  4. #4
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    Crate stacking can be useful for a guard more without it being completely cheap. Putting a few at the bottom or top of a ladder can alert the guard to the thief's presence, putting a larger crate in a small shadow in a room may eliminate the thief's opportunity to hide right there if he's being chased, etc.

    Now putting 20 crates on an objective can be retarded, and completely blocking off rooms is pretty stupid too, but I've made my point. cheers
    *Leader of the 56k rebellion*
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  5. #5
    Member Biohazard's Avatar
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    I think LR has a good point. The crates were made to be used, which seems to be stacking.

    However, putting crates on top of an objective/loot is cheap.

  6. #6
    i am talking about like littering the stairs or a path with them. this way the thief needs to hop over them, or dodge around them. that seems more lame because it slows the thief down in a combat area.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard
    I think LR has a good point. The crates were made to be used, which seems to be stacking.

    However, putting crates on top of an objective/loot is cheap.
    I don't even go so far as to agree with this. They can be moved, destroyed, ot objectives frobbed right through them. Their primary function in this instance is not to impede gettingt he loot/objective, but to hide it.

    For instance, in Theatre, in the back room, there's a spawn point for a relic. Right next to that spawn is a stack of crates. Given the opportunity, I WILL pile those crates over that relic, if it spawns there. It's still grabable, but the thieves have to take extra time, or move the crates first, and that gives me an advantage.

  8. #8
    Yep, crates are awesome.

    Ever tried to think of points to put crates if you're a THIEF? :twisted:

  9. #9
    Member Curunir's Avatar
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    I've used crates when being chased by guards to black paths and give me extra time to get away :twisted: , just gotta do it right, or you're dead.

  10. #10
    Member MrEricSir's Avatar
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    It's fairly easy for thieves to move crates. Now the chest, that's a different matter. I think it's cheap to block things with the chest, or leave the chest in midair in a place where it blocks thief access.

  11. #11
    Member Curunir's Avatar
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    Eric is right. Making it absolutely impossible for a thief to complete an objective by placing the chest in a position so that a thief cannot get acces to an area or item it wrong, and in my opinion, use of a "bug." However, in 1.3, that will hopefully all be fixed. :twisted:

  12. #12
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    Crate stacking is perfectly balanced imho
    When guard camp with 2047 crates on the objectives , it's less a matter of crate stacking than objective camping... still , the thieves can destroy crates with broadheads much like they remove caltrops with moss (and thieves have 10 broadheads by default)
    Metal crates are rare enough to let the thieves move them quickly when needed. Their sound is less specific also.
    The only sad thing about stair filling is that unlucky players may die of a collision error while walking on crates.
    About the chest : blocking an access with it isn't cheap , thieves can walk on it when it's destroyed. Few thieves have moss arrows at the end of the game , but only DMers don't even have 2 broadheads left.
    Chest on objectives is a lame bug exploit , though. Even when broken , thieves can hardly frob the obj under it.

  13. #13
    Member Beowulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_gundam_war
    generally when i see a crate stacker i move the crates. if they keep tossing them down, i break them so he can;t use them anymore
    So you do this when you are a guard?
    Uhm, sorry: THAT is cheap! :| Pretty much like raging to me.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    Quote Originally Posted by one_gundam_war
    generally when i see a crate stacker i move the crates. if they keep tossing them down, i break them so he can;t use them anymore
    So you do this when you are a guard?
    Uhm, sorry: THAT is cheap! :| Pretty much like raging to me.
    I think calling it "raging" is pretty extreme. Admittedly, if I were building a defense and a member of my team tore it down and destroyed it, I'd be pissed. But Gundy's doing it out of some sense of "fair play", which is the furthest thing from a rager's mind.

  15. #15
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    Stak's post portrays my opinion perfectly.

    maybe as an alternative to just moving or destroying crates, (something I have admittedly done in the past) those guards who disagree with stacking could agree to quickly discuss it with any guards they see doing it... just something like "any other way we can set up defense here please? I tend to think crates here are a little overkill"
    poe

  16. #16
    i love crates they rock
    great for defence and they are balanced


    An open mind is like a fortress, with its gates unbarred and and guarded

  17. #17
    Member Beowulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaughingRat
    I think calling it "raging" is pretty extreme. Admittedly, if I were building a defense and a member of my team tore it down and destroyed it, I'd be pissed. But Gundy's doing it out of some sense of "fair play", which is the furthest thing from a rager's mind.
    Mind I said "Pretty much like"
    Just my opinion on it.
    I don't care why they destroy the teams' resources/defense on purpose, I just see they DO.
    Oh and who says they don't like pissing off the crate-users by doing
    so as a side effect and to 'teach' them?

  18. #18
    Like I told you the other day when you destroyed all my crates, they're there for a reason, and they're interactive for a reason. They're not meant to play catch with, or throw at rats. If there's an objective under a crate, you can grab it without moving the crate. If there's crates on the stairs, thieves just have to either jump over them, or wack em' with their BJ. All it does is slow them down, not prevent them from everything. I've seen DarkBill get past a large crate, traps, and 2 AI's in an exit in flats to win the game, NO PROBLEM. It just takes skill, and maybe a little crate knowledge.

    Basically, it's like this. If there's caltrops for sale, and you use them, would it be wrong because it slows them down and makes it hard for the thieves? NO! It's the exact same thing, except crates are all over and free. As long as it's a valid tactic, and it's not gonna get me yelled at by an admin or developer, I'll use it to my advantage.

    Period.

  19. #19
    usually i won't. but all i saw was an endless stream of crates getting tossed onto the stairs in bourgeious. if it was one or 2 i would toss them away (i did that at the start). but eventually saw that the guy was just going to keep tossing them onto the steps (making a chokepoint that is hard to pass even harder) so i just put a stop to it.

    was it the right thing to do. probably not. but neither was such excessive crate stacking.

  20. #20
    Honestly, what are you people like?

    The devs go out of their way to create an interactive Thievery universe & we suddenly have people saying

    "Hang on, those things are just for decoration, you can't USE them"

    If I was guarding something & didn't want people to get it, I'd hide, barricade, booby-trap & camp on it as much as I thought was necessary.

    It's the same reason Nostalgia has a great big wall around it (give or take a rather annoying hole): walls/barricades are valid defence to keep the people on the other side on THAT side

  21. #21
    Like I said about 5 times now, I was moving them to the stairs, so I could move them to OTHER PLACES. I was GOING to open the door and place them around so thieves couldn't get in without making noise, but I didn't have a chance as you ran around and destroyed every single crate there. There was 3 or so left and I said "DONT DO IT AGAIN!!!!" "PLAY YOUR GAME, NOT MINE" and started to take the three remaining down. Then you destroyed the last crates.

    As I just said, play your game, not mine. Say something before you ruin my plan.

  22. #22
    to the guy who just screamed at me: when you see every crate getting tossed onto the stairs. do you think they are stacking at stairs, or outside?

    and i can understand that they are meant to be used. i just don't think they should be used to make a room that by that point was necessary impossible. seriously. think of it from the thief's point of view. he is the last person alive, so he most likely does not have time to go get every piece of loot outside of the attic and crap. there are 3 guards left. do you really want to take away all chance of victory by making a chokepoint (i am pretty sure there is a second way into the attic. but i have never seen anyone use that) even more impossible? as if a guard with a mace and a guard with 2 firebolts are not enough.

    not saying it should not be done. i can imagine some areas it could be useful. but i am saying to show some consideration. just because you would do it in real life, does not make it right (in real life, i would hunt down the thieves from where they are coming from. the spawn). sometimes it is useful. as said before. to slow someone down, or to block out a hiding spot.

  23. #23
    Member Beowulf's Avatar
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    No matter what: I'd call a kickvote on you if you wouldn't apology
    and stop doing it. But since all the thieves(if there wouldn't be ppl like me on their team) probably wouldn't vote you out for that you'd stay in and I'd leave and avoid playing with you in the future.

    Such behaviour is a perfect example of forcing your gamestyle on other players! Most ppl hate that. It's not a matter of right or wrong; when the head dev and the admins say it's okay it's decided for that server.Live by the rules or don't play there but do not rage. Thx!

    oh and the sword is superb for destroying crates and thieves can buy that as well. (just to add to the BJ/broadhead or arrows in general/throw away/avoid list)

  24. #24
    Member Beowulf's Avatar
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    Damn I'm slow. I wrote my last post when the last one was gundys which was posted at 10:23 pm.
    Not that that changes anything...

  25. #25
    Member -=V12US=-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_gundam_war
    to the guy who just screamed at me: when you see every crate getting tossed onto the stairs. do you think they are stacking at stairs, or outside?

    and i can understand that they are meant to be used. i just don't think they should be used to make a room that by that point was necessary impossible. seriously. think of it from the thief's point of view. he is the last person alive, so he most likely does not have time to go get every piece of loot outside of the attic and crap. there are 3 guards left. do you really want to take away all chance of victory by making a chokepoint (i am pretty sure there is a second way into the attic. but i have never seen anyone use that) even more impossible? as if a guard with a mace and a guard with 2 firebolts are not enough.

    not saying it should not be done. i can imagine some areas it could be useful. but i am saying to show some consideration. just because you would do it in real life, does not make it right (in real life, i would hunt down the thieves from where they are coming from. the spawn). sometimes it is useful. as said before. to slow someone down, or to block out a hiding spot.
    First of all, there's only one (1) entrance to the attic... the door/stairway.

    And second, the scepter isn't nearly as important as you think. On the rare occasions that thieves won Bourgois, they never got the scepter.

  26. #26
    I never screamed at you, but I think most people here would back me up on this.

    Oh, and I guess it is too hard for thieves to win with crates, I think I should be nicer to them, and help them out. I've got rid of my caltrops, mines and melee weapon, and changed all my loadouts to pure tagbolts.

    I'll use every valid strategy or technique (that won't get me yelled at by an admin or dev) to win. Oh wait, I already said that.

    :roll:

  27. #27
    I used to be obsessed with finding a way to complete Bourgeois without getting the sceptre. I was ecstatic when I finally managed to accomplish it.

    *blink*

    I'll go get me coat...

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