Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Accent StealthPlay

  1. #1

    Accent StealthPlay

    Alright, this is just an observation from someone whos been playing thievery for only a week, and although its been said that nightblade is a completely different game, I still have some concerns.

    From my experiences over the last week, thievery has been nothing more than a medieval DM, in fact most thief players dont even grab any loot at all.
    The one thing that irks me to no end in thievery is the thieves ability to turn invisible instantly upon reaching a shadow even while guards are right on his heels and then turn and knock the guards out easily.
    I strongly hope that this is changed in NB.
    It is ridiculous to think that guards would lose sight of a thief while passing through a sliver of shadow while right on his heels - yet this happens frequently.
    A solution to this would be not being able to go invisible for 2-3 seconds after running (including running then crouch crawling) until standing still.
    The whole point of invisibility is that the thief hasn't been seen yet (stealth) and not for magical powers of escape from night blind guards.

    This suggestion will probably meet strong opposition since every thievery player I've come across believes luring guards to chase them into a patch of shadow to go instantly invisible is somehow stealthy instead of exploiting the ability for DM purposes.

    My suggestion would put the stealth play back into the game IMHO.

  2. #2
    Member Master-Builder's Avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Stuck in a crate factory!
    Posts
    2,870
    It's already done...

  3. #3
    New Member
    Registered
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by XenoPhobe
    It is ridiculous to think that guards would lose sight of a thief while passing through a sliver of shadow while right on his heels - yet this happens frequently.
    A solution to this would be not being able to go invisible for 2-3 seconds after running (including running then crouch crawling) until standing still.
    The whole point of invisibility is that the thief hasn't been seen yet (stealth) and not for magical powers of escape from night blind guards.

    So far as I know Thievery was heavily inspired by the Thief series of games. The main character thief was trained by a secret order known as The Keepers. Their ability to be unseen in shadow was not mundane. The introductory movie from the original Thief where Garrot meets his mentor introduces their having aptitudes beyond the normal.

    If a thief in that brief period that you can't see him manages to strike you unawares, down you go.

    They are fragile things otherwise though.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Builder
    It's already done...
    Means that yea, it's a good idea.

    Well, the details are a bit different, but still.

  5. #5
    Member Aggamemnon's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by XenoPhobe
    From my experiences over the last week, thievery has been nothing more than a medieval DM, in fact most thief players dont even grab any loot at all.
    Usually because its their role that they chose, they don't grab loot because they are playing for the TEAM, not their OWN personal score.
    If a DM thief was grabbing loot, that means one more (and a very high risk player) will have to escape with the others. Whereas a teamplayer with NO loot can make sure the actual people with loot get out, for the TEAM win. This isn't a solo game.

  6. #6
    Member Radamanthus's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Playing with his blades.
    Posts
    3,606
    DMing and lootgrabbers work well together, but not always well in one player.

    I agree withthe idea to limit the utter killing sprees and keeping the stealth element in the game, but i disgree with the DMing is all you see speech. I also agree wiht aggamemnon as it is a TEAM game and not a solo game.
    "Just off the border of your waking mind there lies another time, where darkness and light are one. As you tread the halls of sanity, you feel so glad to be unable to go beyond. I have a message from another time."

  7. #7
    Member Aggamemnon's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,373
    Oh yeah, and just because there is no *Pick Warrior class* *Pick Thief class* *Pick scout class* *Pick Engineer class* buttons, doesn't mean the players don't have a ROLE to play in their team.

  8. #8
    Member Shug's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Play Hard. Go Pro.™
    Posts
    3,294
    Quote Originally Posted by XenoPhobe
    From my experiences over the last week, thievery has been nothing more than a medieval DM, in fact most thief players dont even grab any loot at all.
    I don't know who you've been playing against (and if they've been exploiting the fact that you're new), but we've already had our hardcore DM era and the last month or two have been quite calm in comparison. I almost never see complete DMs now.

    The changes to stealth systems would only encourage DMing. Shadow-hopping with 3 second intervals where you are completely visible? That would be a KILLER to any ghoster.

    Your ideas might seem good to you, but seeing as you've only played the game for a week I would suggest that you aren't qualified to make sweeping gameplay changes.
    Nightmaster,
    .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
    - "until the cat is skinned"

  9. #9
    Member TafferBoy's Avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Canberra Australia
    Posts
    2,225
    Yep depends who you play against, but I assure you that any team that totally disregards objectives is putting itself at a severe disadvantage, especially at higher levels of competition.

  10. #10
    Member R's Avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In shadow's land with gold in my hand
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammatai
    So far as I know Thievery was heavily inspired by the Thief series of games. The main character thief was trained by a secret order known as The Keepers. Their ability to be unseen in shadow was not mundane. The introductory movie from the original Thief where Garrot meets his mentor introduces their having aptitudes beyond the normal.

    If a thief in that brief period that you can't see him manages to strike you unawares, down you go.

    They are fragile things otherwise though.
    SHAME ON YOU

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shug
    Your ideas might seem good to you, but seeing as you've only played the game for a week I would suggest that you aren't qualified to make sweeping gameplay changes.
    Well considering that Tut is said to be inspired from - a desire for looking glass theif made multiplayer - and thinking it would be cool but was overwhelmingly disappointed in this aspect of the gameplay - all I can say is 1st impressions are the most lasting ones.

  12. #12
    Member Antero90's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Unreal Editor 2
    Posts
    1,463
    Quote Originally Posted by XenoPhobe
    Well considering that Tut is said to be inspired from - a desire for looking glass theif made multiplayer - and thinking it would be cool but was overwhelmingly disappointed in this aspect of the gameplay - all I can say is 1st impressions are the most lasting ones.
    Thievery is defenetly NOT the game you can "get a hold off" in just one week. It has been known to have a very steep learnign curve. Even bigger than AS.

  13. #13
    As complex as you'd like to make it out to be - its really not.
    My main issue is the shadow system.
    Thieves should not be invisible while RUNNING through the shadows period IMO.

  14. #14
    Member Shug's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Play Hard. Go Pro.™
    Posts
    3,294
    I think a veteran player of over a year would be more qualified to judge the complexity of this game than a 2 week fledgling, to be honest.

    What you need to get your head around is the fact that Thievery is BASED on a desire to see the Looking Glass ethos, not just the gameplay, in a multiplayer setting. No doubt the devs didn't anticipate the eventual possibility of hardcore DMing - but at the same time, it's the beauty of the game that many different styles of play are possible. Thievery isn't Thief. It never was; it's just become more evident over time that the only real link is the inspiration for stealth gameplay, and I'd be the first to tell you that imitating Thief in a multiplayer setting would be absolutely piss-boring.
    We had some guys in here before telling us that they strictly roleplayed on LAN; that they tweaked stealth, made traps more powerful and the guard turned his gamma down so as not to spot thieves easily. That the guard never left his assigned patrol-route, much as an AI wouldn't. I'm sure that was great fun for them, but sadly, I was looking to get away from the crap AI of Thief and so I took the opportunity to play this game in the way it allows me to play.

    Funnily enough, also, thieves are NOT invisible when running through a shadow. If a thief runs full tilt through the deepest shadow, he's still 12% visible and thus perceptible to the guard eye on-screen. 9% or below is completely invisible. What many thieves do is run into a patch of darkness and then pull up to become invisible - and that's why guards are equipped with a number of different tools providing light - flares, tag bolts, firebolts. If you have no equipment left, whip out your melee weapon, pull a Slashy Rodent McSlash and swing wildly in the dark.

    Now, having said that, it's still very possible to be a ghosting type of player and win without so much as touching a guard. It's also possible to eliminate an entire guarding team to win, but that also requires skill in equal measure, especially with KO'd bodies coming awake if you frob them. You can't tell other people how to play. If it really worries you, play on a ghosting server - Daniel from TuF has one running as of now, in fact.

    Also, I think you'd be amazed at how complex this game really is if you're prepared to accept it and explore the possibilities.
    Nightmaster,
    .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
    - "until the cat is skinned"

  15. #15
    Member Convict's Avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Back in Oz...
    Posts
    2,138
    Higher levels of competition rarely use DM for winning from the little I've seen. I use a little DM and a little ghosting but mainly running around warping from place to place.

  16. #16
    Member Illuminus's Avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,060
    Be assured that all the teams will be focusing on what they meant to do. Thieves stealing, Guards guarding and Shades... .

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Writer's Block
    Posts
    429
    Quote Originally Posted by XenoPhobe
    Alright, this is just an observation from someone whos been playing thievery for only a week, and although its been said that nightblade is a completely different game, I still have some concerns.

    From my experiences over the last week, thievery has been nothing more than a medieval DM, in fact most thief players dont even grab any loot at all.
    The one thing that irks me to no end in thievery is the thieves ability to turn invisible instantly upon reaching a shadow even while guards are right on his heels and then turn and knock the guards out easily.
    I strongly hope that this is changed in NB.
    It is ridiculous to think that guards would lose sight of a thief while passing through a sliver of shadow while right on his heels - yet this happens frequently.
    A solution to this would be not being able to go invisible for 2-3 seconds after running (including running then crouch crawling) until standing still.
    The whole point of invisibility is that the thief hasn't been seen yet (stealth) and not for magical powers of escape from night blind guards.

    This suggestion will probably meet strong opposition since every thievery player I've come across believes luring guards to chase them into a patch of shadow to go instantly invisible is somehow stealthy instead of exploiting the ability for DM purposes.

    My suggestion would put the stealth play back into the game IMHO.
    Well, since you're new, try to play a little more, because some more experienced guards doesn't have any problem with thiefs running throe shadows, even if they go invis, I know it seems frustrating in the beginning, but it changes, the main problem that many guards gets very mad or unfocused when beeing ko'ed and rushes to "kill" the thief again. If the 2-3 second rule when entering a shadow would be aplied the thiefs would mostly be slaughtered since guards tend to shoot a tag and then finish the hunt. This would mean that the current balance would be leaning 1 side, and not both sides.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by XenoPhobe
    This suggestion will probably meet strong opposition since every thievery player I've come across believes luring guards to chase them into a patch of shadow to go instantly invisible is somehow stealthy
    I knew there would be strong opposition and as much as I would love to argue about it - I won't. The dev team has answered the threads issue to my satisfaction and I'll put my trust in their decisions, as should we all.

    Master-Builder It's already done...
    Illuminus - Be assured that all the teams will be focusing on what they meant to do. Thieves stealing, Guards guarding and Shades...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •