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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 06:22 PM   #1
Majarisan
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I don't know how many of you actually get your feet weet and get off the comp to do ssome real life taffing... but I consider myself atleast a moderately experienced sneak. So I thought perhaps the fans of the thievery community might be adventerous enough to try some of this stuff yourself. So here we go with Jarv's tutorial on stealth.

Camoflauge:

On a few occasions I've met people and somehow gotten on to the topic of stealth and trickery and they want to go sometime and raid something together. It is fun taffing with other eople so I take them up on their offer. When we meet I find them outfitted in full military BDU's and heavy combat boots. This screams newbie just as much as someone wondering around asking how to drop the supply chest .
Camo fatigues and black clothing are not very effective, particulary at close proximity. Black cloaks(as I'm sure some of you think are the ultimate taffing wear) are a little better, as you don't look human shaped when you wear them, but still are generally lacking. Heres why... light doesn't reflect off your clothing the same way it reflects off your surroundings. For example, a black cloak will only make you look like a black blob in the middle of a greyish-black shadow.

Proper camoflauging is more natural. First strip yourself down as naked as you feel confortable with. I only wear a ripped up old pair of camo shorts. Then smear your body with charcoals from an old fire and mud. Let that dry and voila! You will blend well to shadows and natural surroundings. Try to be creative with this method to try and blend as well as possible with your surroundings, rather than the amount of light around you. If you'll be mostly outside in bushes, use the above example. If you'll mostly be inside in dark rooms, use primarily charcoal as thats designed to blend with shadows. If you'll be sneaking around in a concrete compund with lots of gravel on the ground, use charcoal and a *thin* layer of damp cement mix. This will blend well with the greyish background.

Silent movement:

Do not wear any footwear. If you must for christs sake not combat boots. I go bare foot. Yes this hurts at first but if you do this with any kind of reguarity your feet will develop cauluses(sp?) and it won't hurt anymore.

To step silently place your foot down gently on the outside ball of your foot first. DO NOT apply weight to this foot yet. Gently roll the rest of the ball of your foot down, then your toes, and finally your heel. Feel for any twigs, small pebbles, leaves or anything that will make noise under your foot. If you find any then lift your foot and try another spot. If you feel nothing then finally you slowly apply weight to that foot and repeat with the other foot. Often you will find yourself on your belly to remain hidden. When you crawl do not drag your body across the ground military style (honestly the military doesn't know the first thing about stealth). Instead lift your body off the ground a couple inches and move 1 appendage at a time, putting them down gently to feel for anything that could make a noise as stated above. This takes a lot of strength, stamina, and practice to do properly, as well as balance for that matter.

Thats enough for now I think. Sorry for the long post, but if you've read this much then I imagine you wanted to know . This stuff has worked well for me, hope it does for all of you as well.
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 06:28 PM   #2
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Good stuff. A bit of that I know. I used to be in Boy Scouts, so I learned all kinds of stuff from man-hunt. Also, about rolling your foot. It works just as effectively, and I prefer this, to place the heel first, and roll your foot on the outsides of your foot, eventually rolling through all the way to your toes.

More to come I'm sure.
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 06:47 PM   #3
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And you wonder why you have run-ins with the police?
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 06:59 PM   #4
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Hmmm... I can't believe that nobody has made this topic yet.

Anyway, here's what works for me.

Concerning camoflauge, I like to choose my uniform based on where I am going. A good pair of BDU's (forest green of course) IS good for daytime romps in a forest area. That's why they're forest green ya silly! Nighttime sneaking ususally calls for black or dark grey. Of course, if you're good, your choice of camoflauge isn't a big deal, because the key to not being seen is to remain outside the field of view of all people. Camoflague only helps them not recognize you when you're in their field of view; the best way is to STAY OUTSIDE their field of view.

For silent movement, I prefer to use different techniques for different surfaces. For example, on concrete, marble and the like, the good ol' heel to toe technique is good enough. Others, like wood, call for different techniques.

Concrete: I've gotten good enough to go heel to toe easily on this. Hell, I can even run on it silently.

Tile: Most tiles, heel to toe works, but the key is to put the heel down SLOWLY, but the roll can be fast. Do it just right, and it looks like you're moving just as fast.

Carpet: Now most people go "DUH! How can you screw up carpet?!" Well, most of the carpets I walk on have wood flooring/supports underneath. This can cause problems...

Wood: I hate wood. It CREAKS all the bloody time. The best way I've found is to tip-toe. The way I do it is unatural, but it minimizes the creaking of the flooring. Basically, I kind of karayoke (misspelled ), putting one foot around the other, and ONLY MY TOES CONTACT THE FLOOR. It's hard to do, but it mizimizes surface area, which means you are less likely to set your foot down on a spot that squeaks.

Da woodz!: I stink at sneaking around in the forests and such. Too many twigs and the like. However, I'm good at HIDING in the forest, so I can more or less wait until whoever is around is out of earshot, but I exaggerate the heel to toe, doing it slowly, rolling to the side of the foot so much I almost snap a tendon, then lift slowly. And I STILL make noise. Oh well...

Do NOT crawl. It is OK to lie prone, but in my experience, there is no good way to crawl silently, so either be in such a position that making some noise is not an issue, or just don't. Remember to get up SLOWLY; movement attracts the eye, and a lot of people seem to be more attentive to vertical motion than lateral motion, perhaps because you move your head laterally than you move it vertically.

Still, do not underestimate the prone position! I once played a game with some of my friends. I had them search a 50 x 50 yard forested area with flashlights. I lied down and covered most (but not all) of my body with leaves, and waited. I got 5 guys searching the area with flashlights, and it takes them an HOUR. I'm watching them for this hour, listening to them say "Damnit! This is stupid. I'll bet he isn't even here..." I finally gave up and stopped hiding, and showed them where I was hiding. I was wearing green sweats. Imagine if I had REAL camoflauge...
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 07:20 PM   #5
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Haha, that's awesome!
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 07:20 PM   #6
Majarisan
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
And you wonder why you have run-ins with the police?
The only time I have run ins with cops is when i'm just taking a walk. If I don't wanna be seen then I won't be. I have had to elude the cops before, this was back in the day when I was noob enough to wear BDU's, and my sneaking partners were whispering(BTW, contrary to what LR might say I'm not a thief, I may be guilty of trespassing and breaking and entering on ocassion... but its all purely for sport. nothing was broken or taken.) Anyway we had to make a hastey retreat... the cops were called and we weren't far enough away yet. So we had to sneak away. Thankfully our skill held true and we weren't caught. Since though I've read books and praciticed and developed my current style, covering myself with mud ect. ect. I haven't been seen since
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 07:39 PM   #7
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 Originally Posted by Majarisan:
but its all purely for sport. nothing was broken or taken.)
Well, there goes the whole breaking and entering thing, then....
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 07:45 PM   #8
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 Originally Posted by Majarisan:
honestly the military doesn't know the first thing about stealth
I'd like you to say that to a Marine sniper, you'd be missing your head before you knew it.

For wooded areas in any range, or outdoor urban type areas of medium to long range, the biggest issue it to break up the outline of the body, the colors on your camo are really secondary, although getting the colors right isn't hard, epsecially if you use natural camo. At close ranges in ubran areas or pretty much any indoor area, expecting camouflage to work is a joke. You had either be behind something opaque or a completely dark area. The only times not being completely concealed will work is if he is only looking in your direction through his peripheral vision or if you are planning on putting 2 in his chest and one in his head as soon as you see him anyway (or some fancy-ass "flashbomb.") At close ranges, speed and silence are things you have to pay attention to more since only complete concealment will keep you un-seen.
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 07:52 PM   #9
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....then suddenly, i dreamt that i was surrounded by wolves...

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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 07:56 PM   #10
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 Originally Posted by Alpha-Omega:
 Originally Posted by Majarisan:
honestly the military doesn't know the first thing about stealth
I'd like you to say that to a Marine sniper, you'd be missing your head before you knew it.

For wooded areas in any range, or outdoor urban type areas of medium to long range, the biggest issue it to break up the outline of the body, the colors on your camo are really secondary, although getting the colors right isn't hard, epsecially if you use natural camo. At close ranges in ubran areas or pretty much any indoor area, expecting camouflage to work is a joke. You had either be behind something opaque or a completely dark area. The only times not being completely concealed will work is if he is only looking in your direction through his peripheral vision or if you are planning on putting 2 in his chest and one in his head as soon as you see him anyway (or some fancy-ass "flashbomb.") At close ranges, speed and silence are things you have to pay attention to more since only complete concealment will keep you un-seen.
Amen.

But there are exceptions to the rule. Ever seen one of those ghille suits? Man... put one on, find a good spot in the middle of a field or meadow, lie down, and someone could piss on you without noticing you... 8)
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 08:13 PM   #11
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that's what I mean, in wooded or natural outdoor areas, breaking up your human outline (such as a guille suit) works at any range. 8)
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 08:23 PM   #12
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I'm not saying that I possess the skill beyond that of a marine sniper, but the guy I get my info from does... even if you give the marine his ghillie suit.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...-2003+20:22:46

Read this book, this is where I get my stuff from. Believe it or not... the author of this book, Tom Brown, puts Garrett to shame.
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 08:45 PM   #13
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
 Originally Posted by Majarisan:
but its all purely for sport. nothing was broken or taken.)
Well, there goes the whole breaking and entering thing, then....
Wouldn't that be entering and breaking? or Breaking and entering and breaking?
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Old 2nd Apr 2003, 10:01 PM   #14
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 Originally Posted by SNAFU:
But there are exceptions to the rule. Ever seen one of those ghille suits? Man... put one on, find a good spot in the middle of a field or meadow, lie down, and someone could piss on you without noticing you... 8)
Hey, man, whatever you're into....
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 12:59 AM   #15
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When walking up wooden/creaky stairs, always walk on the outsides of the steps. (NEVER the middle!) They're used less and are attactched more closely to the wall and therefore have less weight to divide over creaky parts.
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 01:06 AM   #16
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Question:

What are you going to do with creaking doors?
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 01:57 AM   #17
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 Originally Posted by Swiss Mercenary:
Question:

What are you going to do with creaking doors?
These are tricky... I spit on them, then spend about 45 minutes opening it. The slower the better. I've done this before, and managed get inside a cabin right behind people watching TV. The trick was to slightly nudge the door when the TV made any noise. It took an eternity and was quite risky. The reason I took the risk is they had just started watching Dogma, so I knew I had time on my side. That also provided me with entertainment during the painstaking process of opening the damn thing
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 04:28 AM   #18
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Have fun getting your ass kicked by some guy pretending he's a guard.
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 08:42 AM   #19
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back in the day me and a friend of mine where straight up thieves...
then we turned 18 he got busted and i realized jail is not cool...

but the feeling of being a true to life thief was captured so well in theif
i could not put it down and to this day
i belive no other game will ever top the thief/thievery series..


gotta run....
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 11:41 AM   #20
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Homeowner >>><<< sneaking fool

This can only end in tragedy.


.
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 12:01 PM   #21
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Majarisan, try the catfall+invis combo and when you are in a hurry add a speeder to the combo. There is no need to keep in mind all those complicated things...
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 02:21 PM   #22
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stairs are easy, so is most creaky floors for that matter you just step in areas that are not normal for ppl to walk on IE, next to walls i go up and down stairs all the time silently
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 02:31 PM   #23
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hmmm , it's fun to see amateur thieves sneaking for the hell of it , just like script kiddies hack computers for fun... however RL thievery sounds like an extreme sport :>

Just don't try it at home , kids (and especially not in America... maybe here in France where guns are forbidden)
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 04:39 PM   #24
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 Originally Posted by Stakhanov:
hmmm , it's fun to see amateur thieves sneaking for the hell of it , just like script kiddies hack computers for fun... however RL thievery sounds like an extreme sport :>

Just don't try it at home , kids (and especially not in America... maybe here in France where guns are forbidden)
Guns? Who cares? If the person has a fireplace, they most likely have large, heavy, sharp thing to poke the fire with. Its just as bad being beaten to a pulp. (And I broke into a friends house...)
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 05:04 PM   #25
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You people are fucked up man!
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 05:50 PM   #26
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Hmm. I propose a new Thief item:

The Ghillie suit.

When crouched, it makes you completely invisible despite the amount of visibility in the area.

If its a permenant item, then it takes 10 seconds to put on, and you are also visible 10 seconds after you stop moving. This negates the shadow invisibility.

If its a temporary item, then it works right away, but is discarded after you start moving.

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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 07:00 PM   #27
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 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Hmm. I propose a new Thief item:

The Ghillie suit.

When crouched, it makes you completely invisible despite the amount of visibility in the area.

If its a permenant item, then it takes 10 seconds to put on, and you are also visible 10 seconds after you stop moving. This negates the shadow invisibility.

If its a temporary item, then it works right away, but is discarded after you start moving.

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Too much power for thieves.
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 07:20 PM   #28
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Lesson 2:

Stealth is more about psycology than it is about your ability to hide and move silently. When ever you must sneak past someone, watch them from a distance. Watch what they're aware of and what their habits are. Now lets say you must get past a paranoid person who is looking around for someone who might be sneaking up. As many of you have graciously demonstrated for me in this very thread... people generally believe it impossible to sneak up completely in the open. People like this carefully scrutinize the heavy brush and dark wooded areas and only give a passing glance to the open field infront of them. In their mind no one could possibly sneak up on them from there. So if your properly camoflauged (see lesson 1) you can belly crawl at a painfully slow rate right up on the person. The trick is pay attention to the contour of the land. Very few natural fields are perfectly flat, and even some lawns have some minor dips and rolls. Try to move in valleys of the land and never be caught on a crest. Carefully watch the person you are stalking and never move when they are directly facing you. This is a very slow process and is not for the hastey or faint of heart. Just for the sake of arguement.... unless the field is overgrown, a ghillie suit would have more trouble accomplishing this. Its too big and bulky, and the person might be suspicious if they realize that big bulky bush like mass keeps getting closer every few minutes.

If your dealing with people who aren't alert or paranoid, particularly if they are near their home where they feel safe, its amazing what you can get away with. Earlier in this thread a related a story where I made it into a cabin through their creaky front door, well when I was about to approach this cabin I was faced with two options. I could go around the cabin through the woods and come up behind it, which is the obvious route. Or I could advance up a small hill infront of the cabin which was well lit by a flood light. I chose the front as the woods had many dead leaves on the ground that would make too much noise. When planning my approach I observed the front porch, it streched the entire front length of the cabin and the stairs down were on the right side. So I moved up the left side of the hill. I knew that if anyone came out the wouldn't be able to see me, as the railing obscured their view of the hill unless they came right up to the railing and looked down. I also knew that they'd probably imediatly face to the right (away from me) as thats where the stairs were. As a moved up the hill, walking upright as belly crawling wouldn't conceal me in that light, sure enough someone came out on the porch. As I predicted they didn't have a clear view of me thanx to the railing and they faced to the right. The man had boots on and I used the noise of his heavy foot falls as he moved away from me to slip up to the left of the cabin to the shadows.

People are in their deepest ruts where they are the most comfortable. Use this against people. Regardless of where people are, everyone has what is called 'dead space'. Its places that they don't believe someone could be hidden from them. So if the look there they 'look but they don't see'. The spot on the hill infront of the cabin was that mans dead space. He could have seen me through the raling if he'd have looked hard enough. Infact his glance did stray in my direction but he never saw me there. Thats one of the taffers greatest secret weapons. Use peoples minds and beliefs against them.

:grin:
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 07:47 PM   #29
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As long as we're on the psychology of getting into where you're not supposed to be, sometimes the best way to get somewhere IS in plain sight. You just act, with complete confidence, like you belong there. Don't avoid the gazes of people there, meet their eyes, acknowledge them, say "Hi" even. It's amazing where you can go, if you don't give any indication that you're not supposed to be there.
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Old 3rd Apr 2003, 07:53 PM   #30
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
As long as we're on the psychology of getting into where you're not supposed to be, sometimes the best way to get somewhere IS in plain sight. You just act, with complete confidence, like you belong there. Don't avoid the gazes of people there, meet their eyes, acknowledge them, say "Hi" even. It's amazing where you can go, if you don't give any indication that you're not supposed to be there.
So true.

Heh.
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