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Old 16th Feb 2003, 01:26 PM   #1
WildBill
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This is a set of rules and server settings that has been developed as a baseline for guild matches. These are not required in any way, and guilds are free to modify them as they wish for individual matches. I think this will make organizing matches not related to TurfWars or another tournament far easier.

These rules were originally suggested by me, drawing inspiration from server settings and the rules of skirmishes played to date, and have been altered by suggestions from the community. While there is some consensus regarding them, they are not yet finalized or formal. I'm still looking for comments and suggestions.

Note that these have been updated for Thievery 1.4.

Server
-The match will take place on a dedicated server agreed on by both teams. In-game admin access will not be used by players to avoid any possibility of cheating. Map changes can be done with votes or remote admin tools.
-Default serversettings are:
* Clever level AI
* 3 max following AI
* AI do not stand still when flashed
* AI frob awaken enabled
* AI autowake after 10 minutes
* 850 starting loot for guards
* 600 starting loot for thieves
* 30 minute time limit + map time modifier
* Loot drop - 50%
* Supply chest active
* Force respawn enabled

Rounds
-There will be six rounds in the match, two rounds on three different maps. Each side will guard once and thieve once on each map.
-The guild that wins four or more of the rounds is the winner of the match. If both guilds win three, the match is a tie. (There is no fair way to make ties impossible)
-The three maps will be decided upon by both teams at least 3 days before the match, or later if both sides are willing.

Players
-The match will have 3 to 5 players on each side, to be agreed upon beforehand. If one of the chosen maps does not support that many players, teams will be as full as possible with non-playing players spectating.
-Teams do not have to be constant from round to round.
-Rosters must be submitted to the opposing guild at least 3 days prior to the match, or later if both sides are willing. If the guild will not have the same team for all rounds, they must specify who will be playing each round.
-No players commonly banned from public servers (Frantic, Unstoppable, Hardee, and the like) will be allowed to play. Any disputes or questions regarding this will be resolved between both sides and the server admin before the match.
-For a guild match, all players must be members in good standing in that guild. Aliasing as another player is forbidden.

Spectators
-There will be either one independent spectator present, or one spectator representing each guild. These spectators must remain totally silent during matches, except to call a serious foul. Dead to live chat will be enabled for this purpose.
-At the end of each round, these spectators should take a screenshot of the scores.
-Dead players may not use the shout channel, or communicate in another way with the remaining players. They may use the whisper channel to talk with other dead players.
-Spectating as a rat is forbidden, since they can effect the game.
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Last edited by WildBill; 28th Feb 2005 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 01:33 PM   #2
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Adding:

Server Settings
* Loot drop - 50%
*Supply chest active

Players
- All players for a guild will be members in good standing of that guild. Guild members may not alias as other members of that guild, and non-members of a guild in a match may not be brought in aliasing as a member of that guild. Violation of either of these rules forfeits the entire match.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 01:45 PM   #3
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I knew I forgot something.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 01:50 PM   #4
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Edited original post to include my suggestions. Indicated in red.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 02:03 PM   #5
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Enjoying your admin powers, are you? ^_^
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 03:12 PM   #6
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 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
Enjoying your admin powers, are you? ^_^
Just made more sense to put everything in a single post.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 04:30 PM   #7
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They look fine to me
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 05:52 PM   #8
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 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
-No players commonly banned from public servers (Frantic, Unstoppable, Hardee, etc) will be allowed to play. Any disputes regarding this will be worked out after rosters are submitted but before the match.
y shouldn't banned ppl play? :|
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 05:56 PM   #9
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 Originally Posted by daniel:
 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
-No players commonly banned from public servers (Frantic, Unstoppable, Hardee, etc) will be allowed to play. Any disputes regarding this will be worked out after rosters are submitted but before the match.
y shouldn't banned ppl play? :|
Because they've been normally been banned with good reason :|

I'll requote:
 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
Any disputes regarding this will be worked out after rosters are submitted but before the match.
If you can get both sides to agree & the person hosting the server, then you could have a banned person playing. However, there aren't any guild members banned at the moment.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 08:48 PM   #10
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Hmmm, Tho I personnaly think bagging Frantic with the likes of Hardee and Unstoppable isn't really fair, these rules seem fine.
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Old 16th Feb 2003, 08:52 PM   #11
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 Originally Posted by TheMachine:
Hmmm, Tho I personnaly think bagging Frantic with the likes of Hardee and Unstoppable isn't really fair, these rules seem fine.
I wasn't implying they were similar, I was simply pointing out some people who have been mass banned that most everyone here would have heard of.
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Old 17th Feb 2003, 03:35 AM   #12
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Why don't you sticky this, LR. If these are going to be standard for all guildmatches, it requires a little priority.

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Old 17th Feb 2003, 03:45 AM   #13
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I agree. But who's saying that these are going to be the standards?
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Old 17th Feb 2003, 04:29 AM   #14
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 Originally Posted by Ømega:
I agree. But who's saying that these are going to be the standards?
Absolutely, what about ghosting matches?
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Old 17th Feb 2003, 09:47 AM   #15
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Omega, TMach, I think WBill is just trying to standardise, match terms, the idea being, one guild challenges another and says "standard settings", and then they don't have to haggle or agree explicitly to each individual setting. Or you could say "standard settings except 800 starting money for thieves because we're ghosting", or something like that.

Kiech, good idea, I'm stickying it now.
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Old 17th Feb 2003, 09:57 AM   #16
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I know, but any blog could dump some rules in here saying they should be standard codes, we should discuss this in great detail and vote about it.
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Old 17th Feb 2003, 11:08 AM   #17
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 Originally Posted by Ømega:
I know, but any blog could dump some rules in here saying they should be standard codes, we should discuss this in great detail and vote about it.
Anybody could come in and propose a change, sure, but I really doubt there will be much dispute. This is fairly standard stuff, and it's not like it's set in stone or anything. And in the end if there is an issue, all the guilds could vote or something.

I'm totally for the discussing part, I just don't think anyone has a real problem with the rules as they stand now. Again, any suggestions or comments are more than welcome, but take the ghosting discussion to another thread. ^_^
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Old 17th Feb 2003, 11:36 AM   #18
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I'm just saying that everybody needs to agree with this, since its addressing all guilds isn't it?

And as for the ghosting discussion:

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Old 17th Feb 2003, 11:43 AM   #19
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I was planning on just waiting a couple days to see if there is any more discussion or debate about any of it, and then just asking all the guildmasters to sign onto it.
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 01:24 PM   #20
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 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
I was planning on just waiting a couple days to see if there is any more discussion or debate about any of it, and then just asking all the guildmasters to sign onto it.
What about Friendly Fire? I wouldn't think anyone would be afraid of ragers in such a game.

The option of 'talking from the grave', would that be on or off? And what should eliminated players do while waiting for the game to end? Rats can distract players too, and would they be able to call serious fouls?

What about cases of lag or player 'disconnects'? It happens a lot on public servers, and sometimes only a few lives are lost to it, sometimes most.

Lastly, as more of an add-on, perhaps even deserves its own topic, what about scoring for such events? Sure we know who won or lost the map, but what about a team scoring system? Example you get 100 points for finishing the map, 2 points for kills/KO, 1-10 points for % of the maps loot collected, 2 points for each spawn/AI remaining, and 5 points for each non-loot objective completed (ie each vial of antidote from Asylum is worth 1 point.) Or something along those lines.

Kiech
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 04:21 PM   #21
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I think we should make it standard that a demo should be recorded in any guild matches. That way:

-Any arguments about the validity of certain tactics can be reviewed

-The winners have themselves a nice souvenir

-The losers can see where they went wrong

-Everyone else can see what happened in the match (written accounts aren't quite as exciting)
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 04:28 PM   #22
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 Originally Posted by The_Dan:
I think we should make it standard that a demo should be recorded in any guild matches. That way:

-Any arguments about the validity of certain tactics can be reviewed

-The winners have themselves a nice souvenir

-The losers can see where they went wrong

-Everyone else can see what happened in the match (written accounts aren't quite as exciting)
Not everyone can record a demo online. In fact, most people can't, I think. And when you ARE recording, you can't switch from one player to another. Your suggestion would require one spectator for every player in the match.
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 05:08 PM   #23
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 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
What about Friendly Fire? I wouldn't think anyone would be afraid of ragers in such a game.
Friendly fire off by default, because that's how it is on all public servers right now. 1.3 might change things.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
The option of 'talking from the grave', would that be on or off? And what should eliminated players do while waiting for the game to end? Rats can distract players too, and would they be able to call serious fouls?
Dead to live chat doesn't really matter as the spectating players can't talk to the players anways, except to call a serious foul. Spectators may not be rats, since rats can interact with the game world.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
What about cases of lag or player 'disconnects'? It happens a lot on public servers, and sometimes only a few lives are lost to it, sometimes most.
Lag is something players just have to deal with, it's not going to go away. Unless both teams agree otherwise, a disconnect means that round has to be restarted.
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 05:20 PM   #24
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 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
Lag is something players just have to deal with, it's not going to go away. Unless both teams agree otherwise, a disconnect means that round has to be restarted.
I think that a disconnect means that team has to deal with the loss of that life. It's far too open to abuse otherwise. A team that's losing badly could have a player "accidentally" disconnect, forcing a replay of that round.

Serious players in a serious match should make sure their connection is sound before playing for their team. CTG just had a player scheduled to play against TCO bow out because he feels he can't rely on his connection.
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 05:28 PM   #25
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
I think that a disconnect means that team has to deal with the loss of that life. It's far too open to abuse otherwise. A team that's losing badly could have a player "accidentally" disconnect, forcing a replay of that round.

Serious players in a serious match should make sure their connection is sound before playing for their team. CTG just had a player scheduled to play against TCO bow out because he feels he can't rely on his connection.
On public servers, I agree that this is how it should be. I think abuse would be rare, and if one guild did abuse it, it would become fairly obvious and people wouldn't match them anymore. Any guild that behaved like that isn't one I'd like to match against, much less be part of, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

Still, you have a good point. I intentionally didn't bring this up in the first post because I think it's something best handled differently in each situation. With that in mind, let me propose the following: If a player disconnects, the round continues normally unless both guilds agree to restart the round.

In most cases, I think it will be restarted, because for the most part these are reasonable people playing to have fun.
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Old 19th Feb 2003, 05:36 PM   #26
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 Originally Posted by DarkBill:
 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
The option of 'talking from the grave', would that be on or off? And what should eliminated players do while waiting for the game to end? Rats can distract players too, and would they be able to call serious fouls?
Dead to live chat doesn't really matter as the spectating players can't talk to the players anways, except to call a serious foul. Spectators may not be rats, since rats can interact with the game world.
Isn't dead to live that point after you are killed, but before you respawn? Players could use that time to tell others about their death, while they are safe to talk.

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Old 19th Feb 2003, 05:41 PM   #27
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 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Isn't dead to live that point after you are killed, but before you respawn? Players could use that time to tell others about their death, while they are safe to talk.
No, it's spectators talking to actual players.
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Old 30th Mar 2003, 06:08 PM   #28
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For 1.3, the AI setting for these rules is being lowered to genius. While better than the genius setting in 1.2, they've become standard for servers in 1.3.

AI awaken time is still under discussion.
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Old 30th Mar 2003, 08:58 PM   #29
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Don't you mean clever, DB?
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Old 5th Apr 2003, 11:00 PM   #30
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 Originally Posted by Biohazard:
Don't you mean clever, DB?
Indeed.
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