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Old 27th Mar 2003, 05:15 PM   #1
Arrowgrab
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For some days now, I've been toying around with the idea of a Magic: The Gathering-style Thievery card game. Now, so far I haven't as much as moved my little finger to make it real, but if it does get off the ground, I'll need graphics for the cards at one point. Ideally, that would mean in-game screenshots, and that means a server and some people who will pose for the shots. Three questions:

- Is that okay with the devs if I use TUT screenshots? Yabba yabba noncommercial open-source rhetorics, pleaseplease?

- If there's an affirmative answer to the question above, are there any clans who would be willing to cooperate with making the shots?

- Anyone interested in and willing to discuss ideas? I have a relatively clear picture in my mind, but there's always room for input.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 05:36 PM   #2
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What about making vine arrows stick into gaurds and be able to tie them to things.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 05:36 PM   #3
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If I were making the cards, I would employ artists to draw fabulous renderings of guards attacking thieves, invisibility, et-cetera. That would be much cooler than just screenshots. After all, TUT has such basic animation. How do you make a "block" card graphic when there is no pose for blocking?

Overall, cool idea. TUT has a lot of strategy that you could pull into a card game.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 05:42 PM   #4
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CrouchingDork: I seem to have heard that suggestion before. Hmm, now who said it and when?

Buho: Excellent idea. There are only two minor problems. A, I don't know any artists who would draw the mentioned fabulous pictures, and B, even if I did, I wouldn't have the kind of money artists regularly ask for fabulous pictures.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 06:10 PM   #5
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I like the idea, but the "Server crash!", "Disconnect" and "Ping Spike" cards will probably end up overpowered. I cetainly would be willing to help with game mechanics and such, and probably could manage to make some decent art for simple things, like arrows and swords, using some 3D software. I'm no artist however.

*Pays 50 loot and plays "Callvote kickban" on Taffer*
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 06:22 PM   #6
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Ooooh!

Lets make card ideas.

How about whine cards, firespam cards, rage cards, OMG WTF cards, FUKIN LAAG!1111! cards, and some Drunken spectating Rat with too much admin priviledges and a plasma gun cards.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 06:30 PM   #7
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i'm so popular....now there's not only a pc game named after me....but a board game
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 06:33 PM   #8
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i've actualyl been working on the logistics of a Thievery card game. I'm held up, though, since I've got no art skills, and can't find anyone capable or willing to help me make an internet based gui for playing it. Thus, i can't test out the rules i've made.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 07:00 PM   #9
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 Originally Posted by Buho:
How do you make a "block" card graphic when there is no pose for blocking?
How about a screenshot from the perspective of the blocking player, showing the sword in it's block position?

 Originally Posted by CrouchingDork:
How about some Drunken spectating Rat with too much admin priviledges and a plasma gun cards.
LMAO!! There's actually a good idea in there, though. An "admin cheats" card.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 07:19 PM   #10
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Card Name: Leap of Faith

Image: Thief jumping off the church tower in Korman.

Description: Selected opponent removes one creature of their choice from play. Counterable by a Catfall Potion or a Mario.

Text: In his attempt to evade the guards, CrouchingDork took a leap of faith. He escaped the guards, but not the ground.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 07:57 PM   #11
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 Originally Posted by Salvage:
Text: In his attempt to evade the guards, CrouchingDork took a leap of faith. He escaped the guards, but not the ground.
But alas, he quaffed an invis and the ground could not track him down.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 10:07 PM   #12
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If you intend to make this a published, collectible card game, be aware that Wizards of the Coast (and hence Hasbro) own the patents for collectible card games. They charge a percentage of sales (I think it's 2%), and I believe they require that they authorise each product.

If it's not collectible, don't worry bout it though
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 10:11 PM   #13
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Wizards of the Coast are a bunch of arses. Down with them.
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Old 27th Mar 2003, 10:12 PM   #14
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 Originally Posted by Entropy:
If you intend to make this a published, collectible card game, be aware that Wizards of the Coast (and hence Hasbro) own the patents for collectible card games. They charge a percentage of sales (I think it's 2%), and I believe they require that they authorise each product.

If it's not collectible, don't worry bout it though
Even more evidence of the problems with patents in the United States...
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 12:03 AM   #15
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I should add that these patents extend to the mechanic of 'tapping' a card, or turning it at an angle to indicate it has been activated.

I've been involved (loosely) in the gaming industry since well before MtG, and I remember the advent of CCGs, the proliferation of a new 'industry' and hopes for a creative boom that would help bring fresh gamers into RPGs via CCGs. I also remember the rumours, then the reality of the patents, and the lockdown of that particular lucrative market, followed by Hasbro's acquisition of WotC.

All the complaints, frustration, and bitterness have come and gone since then, but when it comes down to it nothing is going to change the situation. The American patent system tends to give out patents fairly easily and rely on court battles to correct errors. That means little guys without lots of money for legal battles can't do shit. And there's no guarantee that these patents would be quashed even if a legal challenge were mounted - the US system is there to protect those who would earn money from creations, not to protect common sense or the public domain.
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 04:45 AM   #16
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Quite a turnout, it would seem. Let me adress the various issues one by one.

I thought of doing this as non-comercial, just for fun. At any rate, WotC and Hasbro can go and royally screw themselves up the arse, they'll never even hear about this thing, and if they do and try to give us any merde, we'll just circlestrafe BJ them.

As for the card graphics, I've already received some offers to do them. I suggest that whenever some specific request comes up, I'll post it here, and anyone can submit if they happen to have the time to do something. One thing I'll definitely need is pictures of various thief/guard equipment in action.

In case someone is interested in the gameplay, here's the concept I have right now:

There's a bunch of location cards, each one representing a particular room, corridor, a street section, a patch of garden, etc. How these locations interconnect spacially is yet to be decided, but I think it's going to be somewhat abstract. Next to each location card, there's a bunch of other cards (assigned randomly or planned before the game) which detail the contents of the room - number and types of light sources, furniture, loot, guards posted there.

Whenever the thief enters a location, he can start searching it for loot. During every turn, however, the guard player can play various cards which symbolize various anti-thief measures taken by the guards: a patrol arrives, guards use their equipment, etc. As a counter, the thief player can play his own cards, representing the use of thief equipment and various maneuvers (Leap of Faith, for example).
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 05:30 AM   #17
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heh, that's pretty similar to the gameplay i had begun to outline in my version. Let me PM you my gameplay stuff as is written.
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 08:30 AM   #18
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i got some lil 3d pictures of things that could be put on the cards they are at my geoshitties thing....the mace and the bow n arrow
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 08:48 AM   #19
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Oh, will the cards need color?
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 10:52 AM   #20
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[E.D.G]Ordinator already made some (pretty good too -note im only saying this here as he hardly ever reads this forum ) Dalai among others has seen them and I believe gave positive feed back (without any reference to winrar ) At mo he's very busy due to stuff but maybe when things calm down he can post them here again
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 11:21 AM   #21
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Deja Vu?
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 02:04 PM   #22
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 Originally Posted by Bloody-Reaper:

I was waitin for that.
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 05:53 PM   #23
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I would like to ask someone to explain how a card game like this works. I never played MtG, Pokemon, anything like that...

So, im curious as to what the idea is and how it would work. Explain it to me like im a n00b.

Might help me have a better idea of what Ill be drawing, too.
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 06:56 PM   #24
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 Originally Posted by Garlisk:
I would like to ask someone to explain how a card game like this works. I never played MtG, Pokemon, anything like that...

So, im curious as to what the idea is and how it would work. Explain it to me like im a n00b.

Might help me have a better idea of what Ill be drawing, too.
You can download the PC demo here or here. ~14MB.
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 07:49 PM   #25
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Feel free to ignore these if your ideas are better.
On the 'location cards' theme:

How about each player has a 'spawn' location card (directly in front of them). This card would be pretty much the same every time (Thieves = dark, etc.), but there may be inside/outside spawns, etc. These two cards would have 3 or 4 card-spaces inbetween them. When a character (Thief/guard) moves into one of the 'blank' spaces, whoever moved the character into that blank space takes a card from a location pile and puts it into place. At this time (AND ONLY AT THIS TIME) each player may play cards on the location to 'set it up' - Torch, loot(50/100/200/300), Objective, etc.
After both players are finished putting items into the location, no more items may be put into the location.
Also: The locations pile should be kept seperate from the actual play-deck of each player. Each locations pile should contain quite a few cards (i.e. 20).
Also: At any time, the Guards player is allowed to look at the next 2-5 location cards in his/her stack, and choose among those. The thieves player just turns over the next on the pile and places it down.

Example: Thief player moves Garrett into an 'unexplored' area. He flips over the top card on the pile and lays it down.
(Cardtext)
Inside: Medium (Size of area, S, M, L)
Light: 2 (On a scale of 0 to 5, with 0 being the darkest)
(/Cardtext)
Doors: E and W (Note about doors/entryways: To move into an un-explored location one must use a door that is in the location moved from. A door on either adjacent card allows passage between them - If Garrett came in from the North, the room would actually have THREE doors, to E, W, and N. If he came in from the E or W it would only have two. Outside areas usually have 3 or 4 'doors'. Doors are little top-view wooden-slat things in the center of the card borders).
The guard player puts a "Torch: Raises Light in room by 1" card on the location. The thief player puts down a "Loot: 50" card, and neither wants to put down another card so the location is now 'fixed'.

Anyways...[/u]
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Old 28th Mar 2003, 07:55 PM   #26
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Small suggestion regarding the pictures on the cards.

There is no need to be restricted to do one set. For example, you can do one set with screenshot graphics, other with dedicated art, other child-like drawn, and so on. OK so it looks like more work, but the point is do not get rid of some pictures because their style don't match the selected as the main one, just store them until you have at least one set complete and then maybe do the other sets.

For now I'd say focus on gameplay.
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Old 29th Mar 2003, 06:01 AM   #27
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Very good point, dude. Never put your cart before your oxen. (Or whatever.- I never quite got the hang of that proverb.)

Anyway, my present concept of filling room would be more random: let's say that each location card has a numerical value on it, and whenever that card comes into play, you draw that many 'content' cards from a shuffled deck. Of course, there might also be 'historical' or 'pre-planned' missions, where the content cards are assigned to the location cards before the game.

The thing I'm thinking about right now is how to make the location cards serve as a believable map of a mansion/etc. The most obvious way would be to lay them out on the table in the form of a map, but this would need a BIG table, unless you want to have a 'map' significantly smaller than in the game (which is of course not necessarily a bad thing).

Maybe there could be a semi-random layout of the playing field. Every location card would have a list of different types of exits which are there, and the exit types would determine what kind of cards might symoblize neighbouring locautions. For example, if a location card says that a room has 2 doors and one window, then there would be two room/corridor cards and one street, garden or rooftop card next to it.
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Old 29th Mar 2003, 09:17 AM   #28
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 Originally Posted by dude:
Small suggestion regarding the pictures on the cards.

There is no need to be restricted to do one set. For example, you can do one set with screenshot graphics, other with dedicated art, other child-like drawn, and so on. OK so it looks like more work, but the point is do not get rid of some pictures because their style don't match the selected as the main one, just store them until you have at least one set complete and then maybe do the other sets.

For now I'd say focus on gameplay.
Heck, why just throw them all together. Take submissions for cards, and pick which one you like best, whether it be a drawing, SS, or whatever and toss em all in one. Then the whole community that participated would just be part of the game. I don't see how this could affect gameplay, and it would add some character

We'd just have to make sure we sign our stuff. I think this makes a hell of a lot more sense than having a "Garlisk" art set, an "Errblah" 3d set, etc. Just make a TUT member's set.
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Old 29th Mar 2003, 12:57 PM   #29
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I made a BJ card

http://www.geocities.com/swissmercenaryd2/Index.html
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Old 29th Mar 2003, 01:00 PM   #30
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Perhaps, for maps, you don't put them together from bits and pieces, but instead have a piece of paper, with a map drawn on it, divided into grids.

Sounds more like a board game ;/
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