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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 09:39 AM   #1
Loony
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Work in progress map: Th-ambush

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I'm not sure what I'm going to add to it so far. Any ideas?
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 09:59 AM   #2
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loot and AI - lol

wow rain nice

This for TvsG or for thief match? cus its way to dark for TvsG
Maps a bit empty - could do with more decoration - only had quick play but i noticed you can steal the ruby (flare) from the chest without opening it... you shall have to fiddle with that till you carnt reach it (never found key)

in the barn - one of the windows on second floor opens the wrong way around. i would sugest putting something inside the barn as its a bit empty. maybe one of them big Cart things (like in keep) the map looks good so far tho - keep working on it - moment it just seams a bit empty - i would suggest adding a 2nd small building somewhere else to. try to give it more levels because i find running around the ground all the time will get a bit boring.

i think it would make a great thiefmatch level atm tho

edit - atm you can also sneak around the back of the hills.. not sure if your suposed to beable to do that
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 01:30 PM   #3
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I've never seen rain go in four different directions at once and backwards in which ever way you look

Also due to you using sheets, you can visibly see when your walking from sheet to sheet by the light changes, and you can see the sheets. And if you look while in the water you see the sheets ending a good 4 feet above you

Maybe you could find the percipitation effect generator and use it, it's very nice, but you have to modify it or it kills the fps (it also spawns water splashes too at a percentage you can modify).

Besides from that it looks good
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 01:48 PM   #4
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Yeah loony you should look closely at chief’s maps in ued, you’ll seriously learn a lot about mapping for tut.



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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 02:12 PM   #5
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 Originally Posted by Loony:
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I'm not sure what I'm going to add to it so far. Any ideas?

To be honest if you used the (weather generators) in (tut-ed) instead of sheets, you would possibly benefit with it looking more realistic and less taxing on performance if used sparingly, but seriously, to use any effect like that in tut you would need to compress the design and functioning of the map and focus on what is essential in your idea and to make it work.
So you don’t have sheets for every x amount of units, or for the whole size of your map in general, causing performance issues.
The canyons are a good way to create borders and lock in players so you don’t have to add unnecessary sheets/generators to make sure they don’t point out (“you messed up there”) or so the map looks to be fully effected by the weather, and also it will allow you to create the (thou shall not pass) blockade without someone thinking *what a shame the map ends here*.

The main problem I had with using ued for tut was scaling and making the map look to be the right size – buildings, doors, open space, towers etc, I could never get my head around it - I always thought that everything I built (playing it in game) rather than looking at it in ued - looked well out of proportion, yours seems quite relative, but I would tweak the size of that barn in all, if its not going to serve much purpose in your map, possibly give it a bit more detail - only minimal however to indicate it is what your building it to be “a barn” right?, ladders are used in barns there may be a few other things you can add that are in the tut decoration mesh thingy. Yeah lol good luck loony!
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 04:10 PM   #6
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I haven't seen the map yet, but the rain in my map was good, no? That's a sheet too and didn't lower the performance as far as I know. Though it was of course only a small section.
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 04:54 PM   #7
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But it was only an intro build and not a real map which was very disappointing, any chance of you actually fixing the stair case and making the other transparent parts solid, then redoing the doors and making it a playable map?, such a shame to see a project as intricate and promising as that go to waste.
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 07:42 PM   #8
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oh i agree yes
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Old 23rd Apr 2006, 08:13 PM   #9
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Two words-

IMPROVE
COLLISION

Most of the trees yo used don't have proper collision cylinders and needotbe modified. Also, the giant-ass rocks blocking the far end of the road not only look tacky but can also be walked through. I suggest scrapping them for a steeep slope with small stones imbedded in it.
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Old 24th Apr 2006, 06:40 PM   #10
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Tried it. The basic atmosphere is already there, and coming across nicely (stormy, rainy night, forest and that). However id agree, you should use emitters or how that is called in Ued 2 for rain. I had noticeable slowdowns, and that on a somewhat small map with not much going on.

Also id agree, those rocks blocking the road dont look that good. Probably just make a bend into the road/hills so that the cutoff isnt that obvious and make a cart or a fence or something block the way. Noticed some wackiness with the road sheet brush not aligned to the ground there, not pretty. Try to give the surrounding hills a more natural, rugged appearance (hard, i know. Hated terrain building too). Also the trees seem really too bright, stark contrast to the rest. Try testing different actor brightness thingie settings (god, has been too long. Ya know what i mean. Probably my bad memory fails me totally here and theres not much ya can do about that).

Water needs murkyness (err). Bridge is nice, but i feel the railing is kinda too thin, doesnt really look like made from stone should be broader and more coarse.

Since i dont know your further plans with that map i couldnt really tell, but if its concept is like "Guards holed up in building" i kinda fear the worst for it gameplaywise. If you make too little lit areas, the guards will simply sit in it and whole games will play like the end phase of Breandor with all guards camping in the display room. If ya make too many lit areas the thieves will probably be crushed in the little map or at best it'll be a DM Fest. Id recommend expanding the map, probably just adding more sub-areas with woods or buildings to it with probably the road (or probably the river, or both) being the main interconnection (like a sophisticated version of room-passage-room-passage-room, just dont make it too obvious), could have branches into "dead ends" with other buildings containing mission goals and the like too.

My 2 Cents or Dollars or Yen or Rubel or whatever
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Old 24th Apr 2006, 07:00 PM   #11
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2 Yen- because it's not worth much...

It's got a CS feeling to it- rain fails overhead, you don't even need vine arrows to climb up the mountain slopes, hiding in a room for guards, a "precious ruby" that canbe frobbed through the bottom of hte box, which, in turn, is supported by a breakable crate...

I suggest Drip actors spread throughout the map, as rain tends to looka little funny (spirte meshes always facing the same direction no matter what, even upside down). Trust me- tried to make a londonesque map once and, aside from it being twice the size of Breandor and inherited from two otehr mappers, it caused some trouble with the sprites. It was fun ot mess with though- getting little UEd goblin headsto rain down or apples instead of drops, but i think the Drip actors make a nice effect combined with ViewFog.

On hte topic of fog, do'nt use real fog in Thievery- it makes verything at 100% brightness which, of course, causes trouble for thieves.
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Old 24th Apr 2006, 08:14 PM   #12
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 Quote:
On hte topic of fog, do'nt use real fog in Thievery- it makes verything at 100% brightness which, of course, causes trouble for thieves.
You can make fog that doesnt affect the players brightness by setting the actors name to something like nolight (the actual name is given in one of the lighting tutorials) took me a bit of editing to get right though (might have just been how I wanted my fog to look though).

And on another note Loony, dont let our comments put you off mapping at all, you've obviously got the skills developing
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Old 24th Apr 2006, 08:34 PM   #13
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In searching through the old abandoned files section of my webspace, I found this file- the beginnings of a seige-style map which had rainactors which were more or less properly configured. You can see what I mean about sprites if you look down while on the ramparts- the rain will fall about you- but the drops won't form properly. Of course, even basic geometry wasn't in place, but if you walk thorughte mines you can visually walk through my increasing mapping "skills".

I might pick this back up and start fiddling again if I ever get teh time- and finish the request for a Shadar Logoth map. Rain might look good there...
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Old 24th Apr 2006, 11:15 PM   #14
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I've always been a sucker for trees in FPS maps. So this *will* be good. Could use more contrast... light there, dark there, etc. Cool b-horror movie factor, we'd sure like to see more of that.

Add a little shack or too, like a backhouse or something.
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Old 26th Apr 2006, 08:41 AM   #15
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I'm just posting to say that I was very excited to see a rain effect in a Thievery map. It could be improved, as the others have said, but I was still very pleased indeed to see it. It really goes a long way in adding a dark atmosphere to the level. I also loved the lightning flashes in the sky box, they look fantastic. Excellent job Loony, keep up the good work, I think you've got the right idea when it comes to atmosphere

As a side-note to the devs, I think that Stronghold could use a similar rain effect to fill all that open space. It would also give the Thieves a subconscious motivation to get out of the rain and into the fort.
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Old 26th Apr 2006, 11:10 AM   #16
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Just posting to say I'm reading and taking note of all the replies in this thread. It's helpful, thanks.
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Old 26th Apr 2006, 07:14 PM   #17
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if your calling the map ambush - might be an idea to have hidden caves with camp fires in or secret tunnels with openings by the road where thiefs could apear from to rob the rich could even have thiefs start underground in there lair and surface to....... do what they do best
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Old 2nd May 2006, 10:06 AM   #18
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Post screenshots IMO.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 10:41 AM   #19
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Oh and: make it spooky. Everybody likes a spooky map.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 12:51 PM   #20
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who uses 2d sprites for rain... Cross Planar (i think called volumetric in ued) brushes ftw.

edit: unless your talking about outside outside rain rather than rain coming through holes and such.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 09:17 PM   #21
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Cliff Blizdenski, official UT mapper and lead for Unreal Level Design division of Epic Megagames uses 2D sprites for rain. Go figure...

Anyway, I agree, though cylindrical sheets are usually better for rain falling through a hole in a ceiling or whatnot.
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Old 4th May 2006, 09:49 AM   #22
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 Originally Posted by Radamanthus:
Cliff Blizdenski, official UT mapper and lead for Unreal Level Design division of Epic Megagames uses 2D sprites for rain. Go figure...

Anyway, I agree, though cylindrical sheets are usually better for rain falling through a hole in a ceiling or whatnot.
Or in front of a window, in an area you cannot get out from ( Like an all indoor map). But what map did the official mapper release with rain?
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Old 4th May 2006, 09:07 PM   #23
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I dare say I forget, but he used the Drip actors to do it.. or something similar anyways.
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 04:39 AM   #24
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Update: Although I lost this map years ago, thanks to WtaFa, I now have a copy of it. I intend to finish it up at some point and make it into a fully playable thievery map.
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 05:41 AM   #25
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WTaFa for thing king?
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 04:47 PM   #26
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 Originally Posted by ]>CoD<[Chief: ( link to post ) 
I've never seen rain go in four different directions at once and backwards in which ever way you look

Also due to you using sheets, you can visibly see when your walking from sheet to sheet by the light changes, and you can see the sheets. And if you look while in the water you see the sheets ending a good 4 feet above you

Maybe you could find the percipitation effect generator and use it, it's very nice, but you have to modify it or it kills the fps (it also spawns water splashes too at a percentage you can modify).

Besides from that it looks good
Yeah, I've fixed that somewhat. Sheets aren't going to look totally realistic but at least the rain is falling the same direction everywhere now. Also, adding more sheets will help.

I think I might add an underground crypt to expand the map.
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Old 29th Jun 2011, 10:31 AM   #27
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The precipitation generator is still in (I think) th-keep despite it not being enabled (that or charnsley) and these days peoples gfx cards will cope with it even better than waaaaay back then.

Though it was a very well made piece of custom code (can't remember who by though), you could really do some nice rain with it.

Of course sheets will always be good for performance.
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Old 3rd Jul 2011, 09:17 AM   #28
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 Quote:
The precipitation generator is still in (I think) th-keep despite it not being enabled (that or charnsley) and these days peoples gfx cards will cope with it even better than waaaaay back then.
Haha, it still slaughters performance, even with tweaking. Really nice rain effect with the rain texture, but too laggy unfortunately. It'll be great for a small map though.
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Old 3rd Jul 2011, 04:30 PM   #29
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Here's a test map. I've lifted the house out of Country Abode and added a rain generator.

http://www.mediafire.com/?4t3splrr9y2v28z
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