Black Cat Forums   Alien Swarm - Steampowered Forums
Alien Swarm 2K4 - ThieveryUT
Black Cat Games - TTLG Forums

Go Back   Black Cat Forums > Alien Swarm 2K4 Forums > Alien Swarm 2K4 Mapping

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 18th Feb 2006, 03:24 PM   #31
MjrHuRTz
Member
 
MjrHuRTz's Avatar
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 576
Tell me about it..
MjrHuRTz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Feb 2006, 03:38 PM   #32
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
I'm this close ( ) from targeting the same criticism at you, Mr. Gravity-Slingshot-Hydroelectric-Nonsense.
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Feb 2006, 05:48 PM   #33
DarkLord75
Member
 
DarkLord75's Avatar
 
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Peace on Earth!
Posts: 1,562
Why cant people drop that damn hydroelectric detail... Just because the planet doesnt even have gravity to hold its own atmosphere... Oh.
__________________
"Spera: Ooh! Ooh! You hear that? A bird singing out amidst our desolation. It's a miracle. The miracle called supper."

--Lucifer #28, Breaking & Entering
DarkLord75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Feb 2006, 05:56 PM   #34
BiG_D
Super Moderator
 
BiG_D's Avatar
 
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Inches above the ban button
Posts: 4,064
Yeah, and 'Space Station Phalanx' is a really stupid name for a planet.
__________________
It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.
BiG_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Feb 2006, 06:01 PM   #35
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
Not as bad as 'Space Station Earth'
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:30 AM   #36
MjrHuRTz
Member
 
MjrHuRTz's Avatar
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 576
A hydroelectric dam is in a space station is quite simple really, as long as it possesses a gravitational field emitter, and as people dont float about wildy, we shall presume that there is.

I've even done a diagram for you nice people:

HydroelectricSpaceDamRevealed.jpg

Keep in mind that this wouldn't be the only source of power for the station, there would also be a couple of solar panels for extra p0wer.
MjrHuRTz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:54 AM   #37
Ki!ler-Mk1
Member
 
Ki!ler-Mk1's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Boston, England
Posts: 2,013
Wow, Eco(in space? lol)-friendly space station.
__________________
Alien Swarm Map List
Ki!ler-Mk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 06:15 AM   #38
MjrHuRTz
Member
 
MjrHuRTz's Avatar
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 576
You have to be self sufficient in space.
MjrHuRTz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 06:21 AM   #39
Pestcontrol
Member
 
Pestcontrol's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 1,881
It's really important not to pollute space or all the rare space species and plants will die out. Especially with space in space being limited and with all the new space stations, the size of their habitat is rapidly decreasing.

I think MjrHurtz proposal is a step forward.
__________________
[THN] Gaming community - www.thehavennet.org.uk
Proud admin of the THN AlienSwarm server #3 at 82.156.164.3:7777 and #4 at 87.117.203.96:7777. Teamspeak at: teamspeak.thehavennet.org.uk (def. port)
Pestcontrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 08:21 AM   #40
Dalai
Project Lead
 
Dalai's Avatar
 
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 2,369
I like that explanation.
Dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 12:17 PM   #41
Carth
Member
 
Carth's Avatar
 
Registered: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 3,577
But MjrHuRTz haven't you got the problem that the work done is from the "gravitational field emitter", what powers that? If you say that's solar powered, the hydroelectric power is a waste of time isn't?

You get power from the water because it has more potential energy, but it has to get that energy from somewhere first. It's getting it from the gravitational field emitter. Presuming that was 100% efficient (unlikely), it would just be transferring energy from one form into another, not giving you any energy.
__________________
I think I can love you
Let's facwe the future together
Carth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 01:14 PM   #42
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
I was going to say similarily. I can't believe how bad an idea that is, MjrHurtz. Amazing.

Alright...computers are ever becoming smaller and will be using less electrical power. Weapons and maneuvering using ion thrusters would still take significant amounts, as well as certain research and development projects.

Solar panels are becoming more efficient...50% is considered exceptionally good by today's standards. In interplanetary space at ~1 AU from our star, you can receive about 1.4 kj/s per square meter. Assuming the space station was painted with solar cells and was at a similar effective distance and had a good compulsator or otherwise storage system, and that it didn't need to use energy weapons often...that'd probably be sufficient. A radioistope thermal generator or a mini-conventional fission reactor might be wise, however.

Artificial gravity fields are a cop-out. Centrifugal force ftw.
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 01:26 PM   #43
Carth
Member
 
Carth's Avatar
 
Registered: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 3,577
 Originally Posted by Moses2k:
Centrifugal force ftw.
Indeed, but you still can't use hydroelectric power because there is no natural process (rain, tides) moving the water so that the "gravity" can move it back.

It would be really funny if MjrHuRTz went on to invent hydroelectric power in space
__________________
I think I can love you
Let's facwe the future together
Carth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 01:31 PM   #44
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
 Originally Posted by Carth:
Indeed, but you still can't use hydroelectric power because there is no natural process (rain, tides) moving the water so that the "gravity" can move it back.

It would be really funny if MjrHuRTz went on to invent hydroelectric power in space
It's still possible in the form of solar thermal power (concentrated solar mirrors on a water-steam apparatus. Or as propulsion if you high-temp electrolyzied the water and use the H in a solar thermal rocket.
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 02:44 PM   #45
Pestcontrol
Member
 
Pestcontrol's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 1,881
If you use the centrifugal force to create artifical gravity, you can build a lake and a dam in space and use the power from the solar panels to pump the water back up, effectively turning it into an energy storage system. Hydroelectric power with no river or rainfall. Even for dams on earth energy storage is an important function. Some can even pump water back up in times of excess power. Or as Moses says, use a solar boiler. You might even co-operate it as galactic distiller.

I'm pretty sure it rains in space though, Nasa talks about space weather pretty often.

A radioistope thermal generator would at all times be considered too dangerous to be used in a space station i think, the risk is amplified by the fact that it's a small contained environment. And you have no control over it's power output, which is also either low to begin with or decreasing fast, because it's a tradeoff of power output vs halflife.

When 50% eff solar sells are common, fusion power will be a peice of cake too. But you'd still need a place to store all that heavy water.

I also think MjrHurtz original idea, although effective, may be quite dangerous in the long term. After all the star's gravity has been used up, there won't be any left to hold it together and it will explode. That's not something you want to accelerate. Spacegreenpeace would protest too. It'd work on black holes, when they're not sucking in stars and nebulae across your path.
__________________
[THN] Gaming community - www.thehavennet.org.uk
Proud admin of the THN AlienSwarm server #3 at 82.156.164.3:7777 and #4 at 87.117.203.96:7777. Teamspeak at: teamspeak.thehavennet.org.uk (def. port)
Pestcontrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 03:23 PM   #46
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
 Originally Posted by Pestcontrol:
If you use the centrifugal force to create artifical gravity, you can build a lake and a dam in space and use the power from the solar panels to pump the water back up, effectively turning it into an energy storage system. Hydroelectric power with no river or rainfall. Even for dams on earth energy storage is an important function. Some can even pump water back up in times of excess power. Or as Moses says, use a solar boiler. You might even co-operate it as galactic distiller.

I'm pretty sure it rains in space though, Nasa talks about space weather pretty often.

A radioistope thermal generator would at all times be considered too dangerous to be used in a space station i think, the risk is amplified by the fact that it's a small contained environment. And you have no control over it's power output, which is also either low to begin with or decreasing fast, because it's a tradeoff of power output vs halflife.

When 50% eff solar sells are common, fusion power will be a peice of cake too. But you'd still need a place to store all that heavy water.

I also think MjrHurtz original idea, although effective, may be quite dangerous in the long term. After all the star's gravity has been used up, there won't be any left to hold it together and it will explode. That's not something you want to accelerate. Spacegreenpeace would protest too. It'd work on black holes, when they're not sucking in stars and nebulae across your path.
Phalanx isn't a 'small' space station. A radioistope generator does not generate critical amounts of radiation...and there are many currently available materials to half the rad dosage for well under a cm of material.

Deuterium-Tritium or Deuterium-Deuterium are not optimal reactions in the sense that they have 80% & 68% neutronicity, respectively. And as far as shielding...duh...store the heavy water around the reactor as an elastic neutron catcher. He3-He3 and He3-Deuterium would be optimal. Start baloon-mining Neptune now!

You're joking about the space rain, right? RIGHT?

Plutonium love you long time.

And what the fuck is a 'galactic distiller'?
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:37 PM   #47
Pestcontrol
Member
 
Pestcontrol's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 1,881
A galactic distiller is using a solar boiler not just to move water, but also to distill large amounts of alcoholic beverage in the same process.

As for a radioisotope generator, you can't shut it down, and you cannot guarantee that the shielding will be there at all times, that makes it inherently dangerous. Even with current nuclear reactors there is a move to inherently safe designs such as PB(M)R's, so why use such a design in an environment where safety is critical, and small size, simplicity and high power-to-weight less important?

Not to mention the size of the facilities you'd need in order to produce enough material for a radioisotope generator with a power output of spacestation proportion.

And fusion reactors don't have to be optimal, i'm well aware that the better fuels are harder to come by, but it's nice to have a heavy water lake behind a dam, right? Hell, toss in O-18, and a pinch of salt, you beat the dead sea and your dam's power output will increase as a bonus. Even space stations have to set themselves apart. If i were a tourist in the future, i'd love visit the space dam.

And do i ever joke? You know me.

Then again we do have 200 odd tons of excess plutonium on earth right now.
__________________
[THN] Gaming community - www.thehavennet.org.uk
Proud admin of the THN AlienSwarm server #3 at 82.156.164.3:7777 and #4 at 87.117.203.96:7777. Teamspeak at: teamspeak.thehavennet.org.uk (def. port)
Pestcontrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:38 PM   #48
MjrHuRTz
Member
 
MjrHuRTz's Avatar
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 576
I find it scary that you people CARE so much. I mean jeez.
MjrHuRTz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:46 PM   #49
Exo-Warrior
Member
 
Exo-Warrior's Avatar
 
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 738
 Originally Posted by Pestcontrol:
And do i ever joke? You know me.
1) Yes you bloody well do.

2) I don't think we do. No! Not at all. Don't know you. Never heard of you.
Exo-Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:46 PM   #50
UArchitect
Member
 
UArchitect's Avatar
 
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 710
of course we care, we space dams, and we you too!
UArchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:48 PM   #51
MjrHuRTz
Member
 
MjrHuRTz's Avatar
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 576
you too!
MjrHuRTz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 05:51 PM   #52
Exo-Warrior
Member
 
Exo-Warrior's Avatar
 
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 738
We you long time!
Exo-Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 06:04 PM   #53
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
Not guaranteed shielding? Whatchu talking about? Put the reactor as far as feasible from the hab areas, as radiation falls off following the inverse square law...then put whatever amount of shielding is necessary to lower the rads to a lifetime-safe level.

Heavy water shouldn't be part of the CELSS. It's hazardous to hunams. And yes...for spacestation power production, you'd want something with scalable output.

That said...fix me up a Space Whiskey.
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 07:01 PM   #54
Pestcontrol
Member
 
Pestcontrol's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 1,881
Keeping it at a distance or shielded doesn't keep the radioactive material from travelling. And no doubt you are well aware that unauthorised travel of radioactive material is exactly what nuclear accidents are all about. Nuclear accidents is my favourite wikipedia page, the early ones defy common sense so much it's funny. That said, Syntek would probably go for it being the sadists they are.

Also, heavy water isn't that poisonous, if you read http://rparticle.web-p.cisti.nrc.ca/...5&calyLang=eng i'd say it's safe to swim in. Just don't drink too much of it, like seawater. Salting it for extra floatyness to dead sea levels (with potassium salt of course) would help keeping people from swallowing it. And it'd be a like a goddamn mercury bath, with maxium power density in your dam reservoir.

However, given it's effects of stronger bonds and the resulting enzyme disruption, prolongued skin exposure may have unknown undesireable results.

And yeah, double Space Whiskey for me too please.
__________________
[THN] Gaming community - www.thehavennet.org.uk
Proud admin of the THN AlienSwarm server #3 at 82.156.164.3:7777 and #4 at 87.117.203.96:7777. Teamspeak at: teamspeak.thehavennet.org.uk (def. port)
Pestcontrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Feb 2006, 09:04 PM   #55
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
 Originally Posted by Pestcontrol:
Keeping it at a distance or shielded doesn't keep the radioactive material from travelling.
Umm...actually, yes...yes it does. It keeps it from travelling concentrated into hab areas.

Who's gonna receive a bigger dose?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....||**

!! ***

(Bruce Campbell symbolizes raw nuclear power, in this diagram)

Also...if that's your favorite Wikipedia page, then you, sir, are a sick bastard.
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Feb 2006, 05:57 AM   #56
Phantaloz
Member
 
Phantaloz's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Not France
Posts: 1,754
 Originally Posted by MjrHuRTz:
I find it scary that you people CARE so much. I mean jeez.
They're making a scientific breakthrough soon, do not disturb!

And yes, we you too much
__________________
The *mean French look* haunts...everywhere.

Look mom, I double A'd Moses -2kmix- heavy
Phantaloz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Feb 2006, 07:09 AM   #57
Bucchus
Member
 
Bucchus's Avatar
 
Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Visitor centre
Posts: 1,517
Erm, here's my really-really-not-good-at-physics opinion:

If the star in Hurtz's diagram is the main gravity thing which collects the water in the diagram's "up", how if you'd let it gather all the water in the "up" section first, then move the station so it turns "upside down" (no idea if that'd require too much energy for it to be useful) and then the star would be located in the opposite end and the gravity would draw the water to the other end through the turbines? And so on. You could even have double turbines both directions this way. There'd have to be some gates of course and when the water is let loose (no puns please) in the optimal position it's going to to stress the structures surely in the long run...

(I think I'll just stick to nitpicking culture, movies and games and books and the like I'm more comfortable with )
__________________
My cats are black! How about yours?
Bucchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Feb 2006, 07:58 AM   #58
Pestcontrol
Member
 
Pestcontrol's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 1,881
Yes, you should stick to your emogothic avatar and it's associated intellectual challenges. Nice idea about the revolving space station though, i take it you mean something like a giant hourglass in orbit with a turbine at the center? Might work.

Moses: George Michael, sick bastard, Pestcontrol, what's the difference. You don't know half of it, be glad you don't idle on irc. I like being able to find humour where other people only see very different things. It seems i don't share that talent with many people though.
__________________
[THN] Gaming community - www.thehavennet.org.uk
Proud admin of the THN AlienSwarm server #3 at 82.156.164.3:7777 and #4 at 87.117.203.96:7777. Teamspeak at: teamspeak.thehavennet.org.uk (def. port)
Pestcontrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Feb 2006, 01:06 PM   #59
Moses2k
Member
 
Moses2k's Avatar
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Was actually here before Fuzz
Posts: 5,673
You are perhaps aware, Bucchus, that extracting the momentum from the turbine would slow the station rotation down each time? Guys...hydroelectric turbines in space...bad idea...get over it.
Moses2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th Feb 2006, 01:12 PM   #60
Pestcontrol
Member
 
Pestcontrol's Avatar
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 1,881
But what about the dam in Phalanx?
__________________
[THN] Gaming community - www.thehavennet.org.uk
Proud admin of the THN AlienSwarm server #3 at 82.156.164.3:7777 and #4 at 87.117.203.96:7777. Teamspeak at: teamspeak.thehavennet.org.uk (def. port)
Pestcontrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.