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Old 27th Jun 2011, 02:48 AM   #31
Antero90
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Back from the real world!

About the *dodges axe swing* multiples, I do recall a long time ago reading something about Unreal being a real fan of multiples of 2. I will try to use that in the future.

Which brings up this noob question, is there a way to spot u units on the editor, I am planning on using a lot of similar brushes to make things even and cut mapping time.
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Old 27th Jun 2011, 06:58 AM   #32
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Uneven brush sizes is just making trouble for yourself for no reason. Toss a 33x33x33 into a room with 32x32x32 and 64x64x64 you end up with tiny gaps (Fun for water zones or zoning in general), stuff being off the grid, having to do math with stupid numbers (ok i got this 47x84x777 cube and this 32x99 beam and i want to fit a thing between that so thats 47-32x99+23434235323432423x1.002) and aligment and positioning problems since they wont snap to the grid as easily.

Ya can see unit size in the same window where you change it, but being able to tell by just looking at a top view (or the like) would need a "reference" brush (not that hard tho, anything half the size of 128 is 64, double is 256, 3/4 is like 92ish yadda yadda) i think.
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Old 27th Jun 2011, 08:38 AM   #33
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yeah, doors are normaly 128 high, 64, wide, 8 in depth. the doorway insides id make 32 deep between diff rooms.

id also add in another reason for not using 1uu grid size, textures are also multiplies of 2, using 1uu can mess up textures easily room's and areas i always make with grid of 64. that way textures allways fit perfectly. only time i go below 16uu grid is for decorations, and you should use semi solids for that if possible!
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Old 27th Jun 2011, 09:02 AM   #34
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Powers of 2 rather than multiples of 2 are what you mean. Although it is reasonably safe to mix a couple of powers of 2 together (like 64 + 32). Certainly stick to the grid.
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Old 27th Jun 2011, 04:33 PM   #35
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Im stepping away from the 2d shape editor for now. It's still messing 2 sides of the brush, even the default cube is getting messed. I have no idea what could be causing this.

I will try to use simple shapes to build up the corridors, most of the corridors will use the same shape but there are some that use a round tunnel like ceeling.

Edit: Using simple cubes got me the shape I wanted, it displays fine on the 3D world but it gets very messy on the editor. I will have to look further to see what coudl be causing this mess on the 2D editor.
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Old 27th Jun 2011, 11:53 PM   #36
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Orgy had a Tut wiki goin once and i actually had a page about 2dshape. Its prolly lost in time now tho.

Its a pretty powerful tool and you can do lots with it, dont get discouraged. Didnt ya do that arched corridor in the picture in 2dshape already?
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 04:07 AM   #37
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I did make that arched corridor with the 2D shape, it looks good and just as I had planned it to look ingame, problem is that looking at each end of the corridor this is what it looks like (see«messed up» atached pic).

I also realised that the shape may need some tweeking, I was thinking in making that face to look like this (see «possible look» atached pic), that way I can keep the general layout of the room without having a wall with a texture that is too huge, but it's only a small detail, I would be very happy if I could just have a clean unique face.

This issue is kinda of a show stopper, I was planning to use the 2D shape editor to make some of the special rooms I had planned. I suspect there is something that I am not doing that is causing this whole mess. I will try to hunt down some tutorials while I am at work (yes, I am feeling lazy again today).

Anyway, I will continue to use the test map to play around with doors and hopefully with meshes. I got the impression that most TuT specific meshes are furniture, are there any architectural meshes as well? Not that it's a problem, the architectural stuff I have planned can be made by making smaller brushes. But to make them I need the 2D shape editor as well.
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File Type: jpg possible look.JPG (4.8 KB, 4 views)
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 04:10 AM   #38
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Architectural meshes weren't really a thing until UT2kX, because meshes only had cylinder collision before that (with some fiddly workarounds).
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 07:25 AM   #39
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Wouldnt call that messed up, its just like the engine handles stuff made with 2dshape (altho it is abit weird. Actually fired up ye olde ued2 and tried to make a primitive corridor block myself and it seems abit better organized, doesnt have just like 3 splits coming from a single corner. See below). Just needs abit cleaning

1) Mark all the splintered surface bits who are supposed to be one wall and align them either as wall or floor
2) Rightclick on the brush -> Polygons -> merge
3) Build
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File Type: jpg mergin1.jpg (109.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg mergin2.jpg (119.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg mergin3.jpg (106.5 KB, 10 views)
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 01:36 PM   #40
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In wich window are you doing that? Right clicking on the textured view does not bring up any polygons option, it only shows up in the other views, but selecting it doesnt seem to do anything.
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Old 28th Jun 2011, 01:46 PM   #41
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 Quote:
I got the impression that most TuT specific meshes are furniture, are there any architectural meshes as well?
Iirc using meshes isn't that great for most things in UT99. Most of the furniture meshes were converted to brush files, which are better to use.

edit: what Immortius said.

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Old 28th Jun 2011, 09:09 PM   #42
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
In wich window are you doing that?
Have a world brush selected with leftclick (so that its highlighted in yellow for a subtracted and blue for an added brush..and green and whatnot for all the others) then rightclick on it. Incase ya didnt know, you can hold ctrl and select multiple surfaces. Just to repeat gotta do that then align those as a wall/floor in texture alignment then at least rebuild geometry or the merging wont do anything.
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Old 29th Jun 2011, 02:54 PM   #43
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Today I am playing with TH-Door, i got it working 90%, only thing that remains is positioning the pivot on the side and making the door solid, other than that it frobs well.

I will also reduce the height of the corridor, it's too high and tmy test map caught a bug that makes the player crouch near the the door.
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Old 29th Jun 2011, 03:28 PM   #44
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Solidity is determined by the model you copy the mover brush off. For the pivot you just need to move the lil dot in the middle of it around.

Iirc >.<
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Old 30th Jun 2011, 02:25 PM   #45
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Today's update.

Got a small bit of time but managed to finally set down a few things.

I managed to finally merge the messed up faces. I now have a proper wall face. That means I can use the 2D shape editor with no issues.

I also adjusted the corridor height, it's a bit more arched but I actually wanted that feature to make it diferent from other corridors, particularly from TH-Archery.

I will try in the next 2 days to make mockups of one of the wings. This will give me an idea of the actual size of the rooms. My biggest issue at the moment is getting the proper size for the corridors and rooms. I will try to stick to the grid as a quick measurement tool.

By accident I got the shape I wanted for some of the rooms types I had planned. There is another type of room that I have not yet designed. Im thinking in using the 2D shape editor and try something more advanced, like a more stylized ceeling. I will play a bit with editor and see what comes up.
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Old 5th Jul 2011, 04:07 AM   #46
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Another update from work, that means no pictures but I can upload them later if you want.

The mockup test was a failure.
Basically, I got the width just about right but not enough deepness, so rooms are large enough but too small, the height looks ok as well, so I am getting there when it comes to basic geometry.
One of the rooms I had planned was a big staircase, well, that room turned out to be very small and there was no room for the stairs, so I am now playing with that particular room. This room is the central room so if I get this one the right all other rooms should have the proper size.

At this rate I hope to have the basic geometry done by the end of the month. By basic geometry I mean just the room shapes with no doors, added brushes, etc. I droped playing with doors at the moment since I havent quite figured out what I am doing wrong to get them non solid. But I am planning on zoning all rooms, is that a good or a bad thing?


My fear at this point is if I will need to split up corridors as they will be quite long, it should be a smaller issue with today's computer's, but I am aiming at a proper UED mapping so that the map doesnt get too heavy performance wise.

A small note.
UED is quite an interesting tool, first it tries to disuade you by putting huge or too small brushes, it refuses to obey you, it crashes and laughs at you. But once you learn to get around it things start to look much easier and UED itself starts to look friendly. I can only imagine the hell that must be mapping in dromed, I read some horror stories about it.
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Old 5th Jul 2011, 05:15 AM   #47
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But once you learn to get around it things start to look much easier and UED itself starts to look friendly.
Trots up to you looking friendly, bites your hand off.

Beware the goblins are just plotting something new if UED isn't crashing.

You-have-been-waarrrnnned!!!

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Old 8th Jul 2011, 07:34 AM   #48
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 Originally Posted by ]>CoD<[Chief: ( link to post ) 
Trots up to you looking friendly, bites your hand off.

Beware the goblins are just plotting something new if UED isn't crashing.

You-have-been-waarrrnnned!!!

You!

You let the final goblin hide and now the thing has multiplied!

So this week I have been literally wrestling stairs, late work and unnounced visitors.

Stairs are giving me more trouble than I expected, aparently it takes a lot of room to make them and the higher you need them the more steps you need. So the big square I had in the center of my map is becoming something of a mamoth. I suspect I will need to redesign them. Part of the problem is that the rooms are a bit higher then normal, so I need more steps, and more steps means more room. I will try to move the steps around and see what I can come up with.
It will be an interesting job since I will be returning very late (have a dinner with some job mates) and the last thing I will want to see is UED and its antics.

*Burns Chief*
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 09:49 AM   #49
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I warned you about stairs bro!!!! I told you dog!
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 04:45 PM   #50
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And you can't even fiddle with the step height to help you out, unless you go changing all the guard maximum step height settings (which means they can jump up on tables etc) and hope that human players learn to mantle the steps
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 04:53 PM   #51
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 Originally Posted by ]>CoD<[Chief: ( link to post ) 
Trots up to you looking friendly, bites your hand off.

Beware the goblins are just plotting something new if UED isn't crashing.

You-have-been-waarrrnnned!!!

chief should know, i believe the goblin came from h-20, before that map was made there was no such thing as a bsp hole

 Originally Posted by ]>CoD<[Chief: ( link to post ) 
And you can't even fiddle with the step height to help you out, unless you go changing all the guard maximum step height settings (which means they can jump up on tables etc) and hope that human players learn to mantle the steps
step height dont matter, just make an invis ramp brush over the steps. take a look at.. nostaliga (i think) for an example. long as the ramp isnt steep enough so players side down it, you should be fine.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 12:40 PM   #52
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Two screenshots today. They show the 2 versions of the stairs I am testing.

The shot named 6 is actually the stair has I had originally designed it. Shows how much I knew about sizes back then, looks really horrible. If I put that space in the middle the stair looks too big and it doesnt look that good.
The other shot is another version I tried after the «original», but im not happy with it either, it still looks too big. I did not wanted to copy the style of Th-Gerome, but seeing as space gets too small I will probably go for it, but i will try making it slightly diferent.
I will post more shots later once I have done a few more mockups.

Edit: It really helps making saves at each change,much easier to redo stuff.

Ok, I got another model of staircase working (shot 7), it looks much better, a bit tall, but it's because the corridors are tall as well. I think i will adopt this model as a final choice. Will need some flat brushes, some pillars... hmm, should I cover those side steps completly?

Edit2: Uploaded 2 more pics with the adjacent platforms
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File Type: jpg 5.jpg (186.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 6.jpg (200.6 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 7.jpg (284.5 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 8.jpg (169.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 9.jpg (167.3 KB, 13 views)
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 03:01 PM   #53
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If you intend to make the side stairs "free floating" id vertex edit the undersides, the lego block shapes dont look very good.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 03:03 PM   #54
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i hope we wont see the bottom of stairs ingame? Cause this will look weird.
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Old 12th Jul 2011, 03:59 AM   #55
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WOW! I guess those mockups made some people touchy. But good to see there is some interest in this.

Well, yes, I agree that they dont look great, but the first idea was to evaluate space and placement. I will try to make some adjustments today and see what I can come up with.

One thing that is puzzling me are the guards, are those made in the 2D Shape editor? I took a look at the ones in Th-Gerome and they do look like custom made brushes.
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 02:11 PM   #56
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
WOW! I guess those mockups made some people touchy
Theres quite a visible gap in 8.jpg or 9.jpg :p

Guards like the normal dudes walking around hitting stuff with a mace? Should be somewhere in actor -> pawns.
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 02:36 PM   #57
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 Originally Posted by Schleicher: ( link to post ) 
Theres quite a visible gap in 8.jpg or 9.jpg :p

Guards like the normal dudes walking around hitting stuff with a mace? Should be somewhere in actor -> pawns.
I meant stair guards.
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Old 14th Jul 2011, 03:44 AM   #58
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I think he means the bannisters.

And I don't recall seeing any bannister meshes, so they're probably semi solid brushes in all cases.
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Old 14th Jul 2011, 10:43 AM   #59
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Oh lol

Yeah i guess either meshes (if theyre not in the thievery editor maybe embedded in mylevel) or made from brushes (either lotsa little finnicky brushes or made entirely in 2dshape).
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Old 18th Jun 2012, 04:10 PM   #60
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After a year I finally got the time to pickup the project, another year of delay, but hey, this was suposed to be TH-DNF.

In the last few days I took another look at the staircase, for some reason I always got stuck in there. On paper it looked fine, a stairway with some platforms, but seeing it ingame it looked too much Gerome. Today, as I was writting stuff for the story I had an idea. So in a couple minutes I did a quick study for a possible replacement. Because it was made on the fly it looks a bit tight, I will make another one with sizes closer to what I need and post my results.
th-antero-new hall1.jpg
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