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Old 18th Jun 2012, 05:03 PM   #61
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not bad, looks nice
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Old 18th Jun 2012, 05:41 PM   #62
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Indeed, keeping going!
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 06:08 AM   #63
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reminds me on underground levels in assassins creed 2 and following.
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 11:27 AM   #64
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ass creed 2.. you know i think iv played 3 assassin creed games and i cannot recall the difference's between any of them apart from they got easier and easier every time. i dont even recall an underground section :/ just kinda played them, half enjoyed them, completed them, never touched them again :| seem to recall the 1st one having better chases tho, maybe i will go play that one again one day


ok.. back on topic post more screenies when you can Antero be interesting to see how far you get
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 02:19 PM   #65
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A quick reminder, I am doing this on my free time, which during the week days is like 2/3 hours. Weekends are usually quite busy at the moment.

I am now building a new study, I plan to take it a bit further.

As for inspiration, I blame Steam for releasing Thief and Komag for packing an overkill of FM's.
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 02:48 PM   #66
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
ass creed 2.. you know i think iv played 3 assassin creed games and i cannot recall the difference's between any of them apart from they got easier and easier every time. i dont even recall an underground section :/ just kinda played them, half enjoyed them, completed them, never touched them again :| seem to recall the 1st one having better chases tho, maybe i will go play that one again one day


ok.. back on topic post more screenies when you can Antero be interesting to see how far you get

i played all of them, it's very mainstream, but still a nice game. I like AS1 most, templars, desert, eastern, is something i like most about it.
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Old 19th Jun 2012, 04:27 PM   #67
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The gremlins are at it again.

While I was trying to get the objectives actor to work (im following Dalais Guide but the actor is not showing up) my latest study slipped by and ended up on sendspace.
Oh well, feel free to play around with it. So no shots today. Tomorrow I will begin with adding a staircase. Im now considering adding the stair inside (more space) instead of the middle (less room, but closer to original idea) All this was done in like 3 hours.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/u7kktz
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 05:56 AM   #68
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
While I was trying to get the objectives actor to work (im following Dalais Guide but the actor is not showing up) my latest study slipped by and ended up on sendspace.
if the actor is not showing up, then either right click the wall and add it (middle of the wall, away from the floor), or try right click the floor and add it (Middle of floor, not near wall). somtimes actors only get added one way or the other. You will get the hang of it when path noding also you can lower your grid size to somthing low, 8/16 so it has room to appear, if your set at 256 it prob wont appear unless your in a huge room

 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
Oh well, feel free to play around with it. So no shots today. Tomorrow I will begin with adding a staircase. Im now considering adding the stair inside (more space) instead of the middle (less room, but closer to original idea) All this was done in like 3 hours.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/u7kktz
not bad start keep at it
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 10:19 AM   #69
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I've had issues where the actor is invisible in the viewports but accessible in the search for actors window (and once you double click in there you can press f4 to view the actor properties).

Very annoying, the gremlins seem to be worse than ever in unreeled these days - I think they caught something nasty like kegitis which makes them meaner than normal
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 11:41 AM   #70
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 Originally Posted by ]>CoD<[Chief: ( link to post ) 
I've had issues where the actor is invisible in the viewports but accessible in the search for actors window (and once you double click in there you can press f4 to view the actor properties).

Very annoying, the gremlins seem to be worse than ever in unreeled these days - I think they caught something nasty like kegitis which makes them meaner than normal
only time i get that is when there is no mesh / displayed texture on the actor. and you have only yourself to blame, the goblin didnt exsist until you made h-2o :/

kegitis also makes your spelling worse
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 01:51 PM   #71
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
if the actor is not showing up, then either right click the wall and add it (middle of the wall, away from the floor), or try right click the floor and add it (Middle of floor, not near wall). somtimes actors only get added one way or the other. You will get the hang of it when path noding also you can lower your grid size to somthing low, 8/16 so it has room to appear, if your set at 256 it prob wont appear unless your in a huge room


Turns out I was reading too fast and trying to place the WRONG actor. (hate colapsing categories)

Today I shall atempt stairs, getting the hang on guards (spawning is kinda buggy) and if I have time elektrikal lightz.
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 02:03 PM   #72
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
Today I shall atempt stairs, getting the hang on guards (spawning is kinda buggy) and if I have time elektrikal lightz.
spawning is kinda buggy huh.. iirc your map had guards up top, thief spawn under, i would make a guess that when you spawn as a guard, you spawn downstairs where the thief should be spawning? if yes, this is because guards spawn at the nearest pathnode to the AI they inhabit, you dont have any pathnodes, so it uses the playerstart of the thief instead. add some pathnodes on top floor and it should fix that
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 04:46 PM   #73
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Ran out of time. Making stairs is still troublesome, but I managed to make them almost like I wanted. I now have working stairs that fit the room in both size and architectural wise.

Created a working switchable lamp with no hassles, the objective actor makes the map unplayable, if I place a thieves objective first it defaults a thief win, if I do a guard first if defaults to a guard victory. I will take a closer look at it tomorrow.
I have uploaded a new study file.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/w6jdl1
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Old 20th Jun 2012, 07:36 PM   #74
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Had an virus alert on that page.
Try use Google Docs. It's better in every way
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 02:43 AM   #75
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 Originally Posted by Edy94: ( link to post ) 
Had an virus alert on that page.
Try use Google Docs. It's better in every way
Here you go
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bxr...lBoSEV4ZHYwMkE
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 03:34 AM   #76
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bit at a time, looks good so far

objective actor can somtimes do that, just means one of the settings is wrong
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 02:05 PM   #77
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I found the Epic document Dalai mentions on his tuturial (I also printed all of the stuff, have like 60 pages of TuT related text, easier than alt-tab). I followed the document as best as I could but I am not sure if it's working. I place the "apple" away from walls and not too far from each other. Testing the map and selecting a guard now kinda works. The select screen is still displaying the thief spawn are, now when I select a guard I see the sword being drawn still in the thief spawn but once the sword is out I am placed in the correct spot.
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 04:06 PM   #78
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False alarm. While watching football I was able to create 2 diferent patrol routes, one of the routes is bugged because the stairs, nothing serious. The guard spawn bug remains. Tomorrow I will investigate the objective actors to see what I am doing wrong. If I get it right I will then play a bit by adding some loot. Changes were minor today so im not uploading today's test.
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Old 21st Jun 2012, 05:39 PM   #79
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
The select screen is still displaying the thief spawn are, now when I select a guard I see the sword being drawn still in the thief spawn but once the sword is out I am placed in the correct spot.
think thats standard, ignor it for now if you play any offline map and join guards your placed at thief spawn while you buy equipment
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Old 22nd Jun 2012, 09:25 PM   #80
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Began working late today. Spent nearly 1 hour scratching my head because of the escape objective. eventually I narrrowed it to a Event tag that had no been properly filled.

My study now behaves like a thievery map.
Conclusions for this week:
- architectural stuff is the pain.
- actors don't seem that much complicated, you just need to know what you are doing
- bots are peculiar
- working with printed text avoids skiping important steps
- step by step aproach is better than trying to do many things all at once

I am now considering building the first candidate for the central room. Once that is done I will pickup the study map again to test more stuff as I need it. Once I get the hang of it I start a new room on the main map, complete it and move on.

Issues: must further my study on light properties, the torches look great out of the box, the electrical gizmo looks weak, probably on hue and radius.
Once and for all understand the th-mover thing. I will need tons of doors.
And more...
You can have a look at my latest study level here:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bxr...2psZVVHTVh4R3c

I will likely go back to screenies for status progress as this was simply to see if it was working well.
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Old 23rd Jun 2012, 12:11 PM   #81
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The Inner Hall is completed. I am now moving on to an adjacent room. I will be making one room at the time. It was quite fun actually to populate the room. Decoration actors are so easy and really give a lot of caracter.
Here is a screenie for thee taffers:
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Old 23rd Jun 2012, 12:49 PM   #82
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
eventually I narrrowed it to a Event tag that had no been properly filled.
Normaly when theres a problem is often somthing small and easily missable

 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
- architectural stuff is the pain.
- actors don't seem that much complicated, you just need to know what you are doing
- bots are peculiar
- working with printed text avoids skiping important steps
- step by step aproach is better than trying to do many things all at once
-Gets easier the more you map
-True
-Somtimes, can depend on Pathing
-True but less fun
-Never! learn to run before you can walk!

 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
Once and for all understand the th-mover thing. I will need tons of doors.
hope this helps.. chief, you take notes too please

1 - Create your Door with normal brushes (add/subtract) and texture it, you should create it floating in the air somewhere, many mappers create huge rooms outside the main map to build movers and decoraction. Once finished i allways rebuild map, dont know if you have to but i always do a good size for a standard door btw is 128 high, 64 Wide and 4 deep, 64/64/4 for grates, that way textures fit perfectly

2 - Create a red square builder brush that is much bigger then the door you have made and place it over your door, so your door is INSIDE the red brush

3 - Press the intersect Button and the Red brush will wrap around your new door, right click the brush and choose "polygons -> to brush" then postion the red builder brush when you want it on the map

4 - Right Click Mover button -> ThDoor, will create your mover, the purple brush, move your red brush out the way now, its done all it needs to do.

5 - right click a corner of the purple brush that you want the door to piviot from, a red cross should appear there, that red cross is the piviot.

6 - Now right click your purple brush and choose "Mover -> Key0" this sets the currect postion to be the shut location.

7 - Right Click pruple brush again and choose "Mover -> Key1", then choose the rotate tool and rotate the purple brush to where you want it to open too. Once there right click and select "Mover -> Key0" and the purple brush should snap back to the first location.

8 - Rebuild your map and go test in UT99 the mover is a moving brush, in ut2k3 and later its a moving static mesh which is much nicer but done a similar way

you can lock the door, make it destroyable, give it a key etc in the movers properties.

hope that helps

 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
Decoration actors are so easy and really give a lot of caracter. Here is a screenie for thee taffers:
nice, looking good one thing i will mention, when creating zones, use the sheet brush instead of the others, you used the normal cube brush and have created 3 new zones instead of 1. Sheet brush is used for water and zones and random masked decoration.
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Old 23rd Jun 2012, 01:03 PM   #83
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
nice, looking good one thing i will mention, when creating zones, use the sheet brush instead of the others, you used the normal cube brush and have created 3 new zones instead of 1. Sheet brush is used for water and zones and random masked decoration.
I wanted to use the sheet to add a decoration that the hall (it was actually just a texture) and I can't seem to get it to work.
It will be pain to add portraits.
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Old 23rd Jun 2012, 01:09 PM   #84
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Somtimes sheets disapear from view in the editor when you build another brush near them in the map. rebuild brings them back.

for portraits just use a cube brush 128/128/4 on the wall and add it with the "special brush" button as a semisolid pillar. alternatively open up an exsisting map for portraits and use other peoples brushes that have been built for them, Nostalgia has a few huge ones, Bourg has some nice smaller sized ones with nice frames around them
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Old 25th Jun 2012, 03:49 PM   #85
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As I said above I went on to build a new room next to the one I had made.

However it somehow didn't felt right. I decided then to have a look at my layout.

I felt it was unnecessarly big, I had actually put in filler rooms. So I spent these days working and redoing my layout. It's now much more compact but still faithful to the original idea. Just to give you an idea, I got rid of something like 10 rooms.
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Old 26th Jun 2012, 07:06 AM   #86
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nice, keep at it.

as a general rule dont make rooms taller then.. 190, 128 for door height and a bit extra for head/jump room. you can make them bigger of course and some rooms like dinning halls/entrance halls need to be bigger, it really depends on your map design and structure, dont try and oversize the space inside the room too, somtimes its a good idea to have a bed brush and a side table or somthing in the room when working out scaling.
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Old 30th Jun 2012, 09:48 AM   #87
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
Normaly when theres a problem is often somthing small and easily missable



-Gets easier the more you map
-True
-Somtimes, can depend on Pathing
-True but less fun
-Never! learn to run before you can walk!



hope this helps.. chief, you take notes too please

1 - Create your Door with normal brushes (add/subtract) and texture it, you should create it floating in the air somewhere, many mappers create huge rooms outside the main map to build movers and decoraction. Once finished i allways rebuild map, dont know if you have to but i always do a good size for a standard door btw is 128 high, 64 Wide and 4 deep, 64/64/4 for grates, that way textures fit perfectly

2 - Create a red square builder brush that is much bigger then the door you have made and place it over your door, so your door is INSIDE the red brush

3 - Press the intersect Button and the Red brush will wrap around your new door, right click the brush and choose "polygons -> to brush" then postion the red builder brush when you want it on the map

4 - Right Click Mover button -> ThDoor, will create your mover, the purple brush, move your red brush out the way now, its done all it needs to do.

5 - right click a corner of the purple brush that you want the door to piviot from, a red cross should appear there, that red cross is the piviot.

6 - Now right click your purple brush and choose "Mover -> Key0" this sets the currect postion to be the shut location.

7 - Right Click pruple brush again and choose "Mover -> Key1", then choose the rotate tool and rotate the purple brush to where you want it to open too. Once there right click and select "Mover -> Key0" and the purple brush should snap back to the first location.

8 - Rebuild your map and go test in UT99 the mover is a moving brush, in ut2k3 and later its a moving static mesh which is much nicer but done a similar way

you can lock the door, make it destroyable, give it a key etc in the movers properties.

hope that helps



nice, looking good one thing i will mention, when creating zones, use the sheet brush instead of the others, you used the normal cube brush and have created 3 new zones instead of 1. Sheet brush is used for water and zones and random masked decoration.
I am doing something wrong. I create the door shape, intersect, polygons to brush, place red builder in door, th-mover

But as soon as I try to rotate the door in the key1 position it looses it's shape, instead of rotating it simply «grows« adding an invisible object in the world. I did not resize the builder after desintersecting (to get the door shape).

Pehaps the problem is on the initial resize?
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Old 30th Jun 2012, 09:56 AM   #88
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 Originally Posted by Antero90: ( link to post ) 
But as soon as I try to rotate the door in the key1 position it looses it's shape, instead of rotating it simply «grows« adding an invisible object in the world. I did not resize the builder after desintersecting (to get the door shape).

Pehaps the problem is on the initial resize?
ah k, i get that somtimes, i normaly delete the mover and start again, iirc it's due to the red builder brush been scaled or rotated before you do the intersect. try it again but this time make sure the red brush is not scaled or rotated. so you can right click on the red brush and use "Reset Scaling" and "Reset Rotation" settings, or you can use the Transform Permanently thats in there. dont know if it is that casuing the problem, but its possible, i guess you could also use the "transform permanently" on your brushes for the door also to make sure its set as its default shape.
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Old 30th Jun 2012, 01:43 PM   #89
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
ah k, i get that somtimes, i normaly delete the mover and start again, iirc it's due to the red builder brush been scaled or rotated before you do the intersect. try it again but this time make sure the red brush is not scaled or rotated. so you can right click on the red brush and use "Reset Scaling" and "Reset Rotation" settings, or you can use the Transform Permanently thats in there. dont know if it is that casuing the problem, but its possible, i guess you could also use the "transform permanently" on your brushes for the door also to make sure its set as its default shape.
Yep, seems the problem was indeed the original scaling.
I reset the builder brush, put it in the big builder room (All Hail Karras!), hit intersect and from now on it was hassle free. I was even able to duplicate the purple mover on the spot and create a second working door. I will now investigate the more advanced defenitions on the th-door.
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Old 30th Jun 2012, 02:07 PM   #90
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good to hear yeah you can duplicate movers, word of caution tho, if you test your map, and you open your door which opens fine, but theres still a texture in the oringinal door postion (ie-you see a streched door texture where the door should be shut, but you can run through it to see the open mover), delete mover and start again, copy paste somtimes upsets the unreal goblin depending on how much detail you want to go into, doorknob's always improve the look you can find all the thdoor details on the thievery mapping site http://www.thieveryut.com/Mapping/thdoors.htm


ps.. try not to use brush scaling, it angers the goblin
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