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Old 31st May 2008, 05:00 PM   #31
-KewlAzMe-
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I never said you'd catch fire.. you are supposed to test it!
So no firebolt damage when thief is recently out of water

OT:
I always wondered... when people are trapped in fire.. why don't they just go sit in the shower? or soak all their blankets in water and wrap themselves in them and walk out.

Go try that too!
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Old 31st May 2008, 05:24 PM   #32
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If you were to sit in the shower, you'd still choke to death from the smoke....
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Old 31st May 2008, 05:57 PM   #33
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And to nail it:
 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
Can we smash thieves with our torch, setting them ablaze?
 Quote:
I never said you'd catch fire..
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Old 31st May 2008, 09:04 PM   #34
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If a guard holding a sword in his right-hand and a torch in his left came across a thief, I really think he would run him through with the cold steel rather than bat him with a flaming brand.
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Old 31st May 2008, 09:58 PM   #35
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 Originally Posted by FatRatHead: ( link to post ) 
And to nail it:
I never said "YOU'd" catch fire... that is why i asked "Can we smash thieves with our torch, setting them ablaze?" it was a question, because I don't know.

Nice try tho.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 01:53 AM   #36
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Having a limited supply of oil might be a nice addition with torches. Every lighting of a torch or oillamp uses up a bit of the oil you are carrying (both for torches on the wall and in your hand). You could use the oil to set other things on fire for a few seconds as well as mentioned.
The idea needs to be worked on though if it's ever going to get anywhere.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 04:24 AM   #37
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 Originally Posted by TafferBoy: ( link to post ) 
If a guard holding a sword in his right-hand and a torch in his left came across a thief, I really think he would run him through with the cold steel rather than bat him with a flaming brand.
I'd use both, but primarily my cold hard, long steel ROD.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 05:00 AM   #38
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 Originally Posted by Machine: ( link to post ) 
I'd use both, but primarily my cold hard, long steel ROD.
I don't believe that was one of the options given, but duly noted.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 05:17 AM   #39
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standard procedure in certain cultures I'm sure mach haha


I have a separate, but related, suggestion to give thieves a torch-douser of some kind. This would allow thieves to douse adjacent sconces after 3 seconds of continuous contact. Thieves would still be equipped with a very limited supply of water arrows for dousing flames from a distance as well as disabling whistlers/scarabs and whatever else.

Just as guards with torches will have to expose themselves to lurking thieves in order to relight sconces, thieves would be vulnerable to sharpshooters and ambushing guards when dousing sconces.

This sort of gameplay promotes team-play, as it is advantageous to have someone watching your back while you are relighting/dousing. It also create a potential for minor skirmishes and scuffles as both teams try to establish map control.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 05:22 AM   #40
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 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
I never said "YOU'd" catch fire... that is why i asked "Can we smash thieves with our torch, setting them ablaze?" it was a question, because I don't know.

Nice try tho.
It was a suggestion, you will not twist outta this one.


Glad has a nice idea, but something that's unknown to us as of yet is very important here, what will the lives system be and how many lives will the sides get, how will they be spammable etc.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 06:36 AM   #41
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I'm actually tempted to make it just 2 lives per player, or 2 lives per player and a small common life pool. Don't know if that would be too confusing though.

Guard lives aren't so important at the moment, but they will continue to inhabit AI. I guess the total number of AI should be smaller in Nightblade than Thievery, probably a similar number to the number of Thieves the map is designed for.

So I guess for something like Darkened Enlightenment there would be a max of 4 thieves with 2 lives each, and if there are less than 4 thieves the remaining lives would go into a common pool. There would be about 8 AI guards, so 8 guard lives all up.

Probably need to work on this a bit though.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 08:16 AM   #42
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It will really depend on the game balance, but you don't want players getting eliminated too early or too easily and then have to sit around for 10 minutes.
2 lives for each thief player seems sensible enough.

For guards my idea would be that AI are only placeholders for the desired number of human players ~ 1 AI for each guard player. This would be depend on the size of a regular NB map of course, but I hope they will not be overly large.

So in a 5v5 map there would be 5 AI.
Each thief who joins gets 2 lives and each guard who joins takes the place of an AI.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 10:08 AM   #43
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 Originally Posted by FatRatHead: ( link to post ) 
It was a suggestion, you will not twist outta this one.
Sorry but that's what I do best!

 Originally Posted by TafferBoy: ( link to post ) 
I have a separate, but related, suggestion to give thieves a torch-douser of some kind. This would allow thieves to douse adjacent sconces after 3 seconds of continuous contact.
Is this like the frob candle in Thief3 to extinguish? Or would there be an actual device that you'd buy at the shop? Would it have limited use?
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 10:34 AM   #44
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Could be somekind of a cup like device you just place over the torch flame and wait a few seconds until the torch extinguishes.

To avoid it looking like just a random drinking cup taken from the guards room you could have a loose leather collar at the open end to close around the torch to cut the air supply to the torch complitely and possibly make the flame die out quicker.
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 03:36 PM   #45
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 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
Resurrection?! Ghostly and Louie have had tons of new arguments since this one.



 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
I really don't remember saying anything about a combo lock.. but the thread is too old for me to remember.

All the same, if I did offer the idea of a combo lock... I don't like that idea either.
Here we have kewlazme arguing with himself.
Let me know who wins!
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Old 1st Jun 2008, 10:17 PM   #46
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I was thinking a devise that smothers flames yes.
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Old 2nd Jun 2008, 03:44 AM   #47
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In KAM's defense, he wasn't the one who brought up the locked box for torches. It was Spamslayer, who quoted KAM, and I just saw KAM's name above the idea when I scrolled back. I think it was to keep newb guards from using up all the good torches, wasn't it Spam?

The flares in Nightblade look very torch-like already, now that I look at it. Probably wouldn't take anything to change the look of it, just the properties.

Naturally, I have mixed emotions about the guards burning thieves with a tap of a torch idea. It was easy enough for guards to just set themselves on fire with fire bolts when a thief came in. Yes, I've used firebolts in such a way, and no, I'm not proud of it. I still lament the fact that setting one's self on fire (and not taking damage) was allowed and could actually be a viable tactic in Thievery.

The flammability of a thief would depend on whether they've taken a swim and how flammable leather armor would be. I know oil is used to soften leather, as in cuir boili, but I don't know much beyond that. Maybe we can convince someone on YouTube to test these theories?

I think Immortius's mortal enemy, realism, would dictate that the lords of a manor would be somewhat averse to fire in the mansion, especially near expensive oil paintings. Maybe they would allow it outdoors only? But if realism were the highest standard, they probably wouldn't put guards like Benny on the payroll with a sword and crossbow near valuable items, either.

Which brings up another point about fire. It seems guards in the Thief series are completely ignorant of how to light torches through most of the series, with the exception of the gas lights in Kidnap, Thief 2. Yet Garret can find fire arrows for free.

Personally I like the Thievery set up where bots know how to re-light torches and thieves have no access to carrying fire, the enemy of stealth. I just don't like the idea of Nightblade devolving into an immolation fest.
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Old 4th Jun 2008, 02:05 PM   #48
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 Originally Posted by Denny: ( link to post ) 
If you were to sit in the shower, you'd still choke to death from the smoke....
Really? Wouldn't the steam from hot water make oxygen?... or maybe the water be too heavy for the smoke... plus the water pressure pushes it away?
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Old 4th Jun 2008, 02:29 PM   #49
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It's the Carbon Monoxide poisoning (from smoke inhalation) that kills you. The mean thing about carbon monoxide is that it attaches itself to your blood cells, rendering them incapable of gathering oxygen to your system. So in pure english, breathing smoke from a fire will make you inhale carbon monoxide which has the nasty effect of choking you to death even after you're out of the fire as your blood system is incapable of gathering oxygen from your lungs. The only way to get rid of the carbon monoxide is for your body to create new red cells, which takes about an hour or two to become fully restored.

So no, even if you've managed to get to the shower you'll still inhale carbon monoxide while you get a bit of oxygen. Yes, you might last a bit longer, but I seriously doubt you'd stand a chance.

Then we shouldn't forget all the other toxic gases in fires.

------

Fun fact
Some factories has been wiped out due to carbon monoxide leaks, seeing as carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless, and a tasteless gas you don't notice anything until you faint from lack of oxygen.
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Old 4th Jun 2008, 04:07 PM   #50
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Yea we all know what kills you.. but I'm saying that it should never touch you because the water pressure from the shower makes wind that would push the smoke back... while the steam from the shower would be able to rise up and allow the person to breath. Plus smoke rises so it would likely be escaping through other holes in the roof that it had already made. so sit in the shower, stay low, and breath the water vapors as they condensate on the tub floor... should at least buy you some time.... Plus No Oxygen= No Flame... so if the flame is strong, so must be the oxygen... so you might be able to make a run for it so long as you can move fast enough and breath through a wet towel.

But its all hypothetical and likely an uneducated guess by me.. But it is the first place I'd go... at least to give myself some time to think.... and to get myself wet enough to at least make an attempt to run through the flames.

At the very least my body wouldn't be burned alive so my family can have an open casket funeral... I'd likely just pass out from the gas so it would be painless and that makes everyone feel better.
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Old 5th Jun 2008, 06:39 PM   #51
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Vapor = tiny water molecules in suspension. Even if you had a way to extract oxygen from water in the middle of a fire, the resulting hydrogen would explode and kill you instantly.

The "wet blanket and get the hell outta there" sounds more credible.
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Old 5th Jun 2008, 07:44 PM   #52
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good call... ok then i will be running down the hall wet
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Old 10th Jun 2008, 10:44 PM   #53
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Yeah, I haven't heard such a technical explanation of why breathing smoke from a fire is bad for you (good job Denny!) but I have heard that in fires more people die from smoke inhalation than the actual fire. That must be why we sell carbon monoxide detectors at work along with the smoke detectors. Believe it or not, they have printed warnings on some of our charcoal bags warning customers not to use a BBQ indoors. You'd think after seeing another story on the news about another family living in someone's garage using a BBQ for heat and all dying, that word would get out.

Too bad we don't sell this model of smoke alarm. I want one! (Sorry for the poor copy)

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o...keDetector.flv

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Old 10th Jun 2008, 11:33 PM   #54
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Old 11th Jun 2008, 02:55 AM   #55
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OMG..I forgot to switch mine off!
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 09:14 PM   #56
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Re oil your torch at the supply chest/closet for the winnings.
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Old 28th Jul 2008, 02:53 AM   #57
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I'll burn the chest with my torch!
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Old 5th Nov 2008, 08:44 AM   #58
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Well, I think thieves shouldn't be able to interact with torches at all except to douse them (and to throw doused torches like any other object,) and guards are the only people allowed to mess with torches. But then it gets complicated when you think about the fact that both thieves and guards have hands, so both of them can manipulate torches.

So if there's a torch in the way, the thief can't pick it up, but he can kick it around the floor and make a ton of noise...

Okay forget that. Everyone should be able to pick up torches, but thieves can't pull them out of the socket like some sick, twisted parallel to a football player's shoulder when he smashes into the stands after being thrown off balance by an unsuccessful pass of the ball to the back of his head.

Yeah. Also, I thought this was torches and not fire escape 101.
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Old 7th Nov 2008, 01:27 AM   #59
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I was thinking that guards should not be able to throw torches around. Instead they can hold them alight while also wielding a sword.

Am I the only one that finds every aspect of TUT's flare system a pain in the arse? Its so awkward and cumbersome, especially with a high ping. That is my rationale for change to something that would be more fun, balanced and easy to use.
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Old 7th Nov 2008, 03:20 AM   #60
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What happens to it if he draws crossbow, since crossbow as it is appears to be the weapon of choice for NB, with the current melee weapon system.
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