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Old 5th Feb 2012, 04:01 AM   #1
WTaFa
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Does every mapper want to leave TUT after realising his map?

 Originally Posted by Apache{NAD}: ( link to post ) 
I am uploading the last and final version of my map for anyone thats wants to play it. After which I am un-installing Thievery and leaving. Nothing against the people or the game itself. I just don't play it anyone. I've had some fun times.
I'd like to thank the people that helped me when I had questions. I learned alot about UnrealEd. Hopefully enough to give me a headstart with Thief 3 comes out.
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Old 5th Feb 2012, 05:14 AM   #2
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no, they would of left before, they just dont like leaving behind unfinished work.
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Old 5th Feb 2012, 05:57 AM   #3
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If you had found 3 or 4 accounts of a mapper leaving the community after producing some work I could understand the question, but what it looks like is that you've found 1 account of a mapper leaving after producing a map and are now generalising a question to the rest of the community, its a bit moot and pointless IMO. Also you never leave TUT, TUT leaves you
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Old 5th Feb 2012, 06:18 AM   #4
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in soviet russia...
 Originally Posted by FixXxeR: ( link to post ) 
TUT leaves you
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Old 5th Feb 2012, 02:38 PM   #5
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
no, they would of left before, they just dont like leaving behind unfinished work.
this
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Old 8th Feb 2012, 09:29 PM   #6
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They probably got bored of what was already available, so would have left eventually anyway. That's why they decided to create their own map.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 06:25 AM   #7
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 Originally Posted by Appollonius: ( link to post ) 
They probably got bored of what was already available, so would have left eventually anyway. That's why they decided to create their own map.
Next step is to say that any game developer creates his game thank to huge boredom?
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 06:50 AM   #8
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nope you've just taken it to far boredom of playing the same 5 maps on repeat for the 2 years is a good reason for someone to try and make more.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 11:38 AM   #9
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actually amazingly, thievery got quite a lot maps, but only about 10 are real quality and playable.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 12:33 PM   #10
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 Originally Posted by NeuroFunkeR: ( link to post ) 
actually amazingly, thievery got quite a lot maps, but only about 10 are real quality and playable.
Probably these mappers ignored all oRGy's mapping tips?
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 12:37 PM   #11
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
nope you've just taken it to far boredom of playing the same 5 maps on repeat for the 2 years is a good reason for someone to try and make more.
Interesting point. Can you give more details? What repeatable map pushed bored player to make what map?
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 12:53 PM   #12
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It's funny how we are able to stop and explain completely everything to a child, but our patience dissipates when it's WTaFa asking the quesiton.
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Old 9th Feb 2012, 02:20 PM   #13
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 Originally Posted by WTaFa: ( link to post ) 
Probably these mappers ignored all oRGy's mapping tips?
just because you follow tips doesnt mean a map is going to be liked by all and played often. for example i play in many clan wars and cups for ut2004, each clan picks half the maps they want to play out of a maplist, in that map list, 90% are custom maps. so the people who bought out the game with pro mappers who made amazing maps only have 3/4 of there map in the cups out of the 20 that came with the game. its not a case of following tips or how things look, its all about gameplay and sometimes some maps just work better then others. thievery doesnt really have much fan made content and alot of the fan made maps just dont have that "thing" that makes them likeable enough. not even all the offical ones does, some just work better then others.

 Originally Posted by WTaFa: ( link to post ) 
Interesting point. Can you give more details? What repeatable map pushed bored player to make what map?
Aslyum, Me, Tavern (which the final version was never finished/released)
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 07:11 PM   #14
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The issue was people came from a Thief background and as a result, a lot of the maps are sprawling and lovingly detailed but tedious or impossible to guard.
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Old 13th Feb 2012, 05:37 AM   #15
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or to thief
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 06:55 AM   #16
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
 Originally Posted by WTaFa: ( link to post ) 
Probably these mappers ignored all oRGy's mapping tips?
just because you follow tips doesnt mean a map is going to be liked by all and played often. ... its not a case of following tips or how things look, its all about gameplay and sometimes some maps just work better then others. thievery doesnt really have much fan made content and alot of the fan made maps just dont have that "thing" that makes them likeable enough. not even all the offical ones does, some just work better then others.
It's depends what tips you're talking about. I didn't expect that except oRGy's tips I can use as example only KewlAzMe's tips.

 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
The original TUT maps have a flow. Take a map like Th-Theatre for example. Start in the lobby and work your way through to the back room where the table and lift is. Notice that you passed through the entire map in one straight shot. Also notice there were not a lot of small rooms to hide in, instead big open areas with some basic chokepoints, but not to a point that they would affect you. Also note the loot is in publicly walked areas. Another good one, aside from the entry choke points, is TH-Breakout. Upstairs has large rooms.. the offices, the library, the huge hallways. Plenty of viewable space from one location, but plenty of shadows along the way. There are only 4 rooms that really count and they are headed off easily by a choke point at the start of the hall way, plus the rooms are totally bright, so the goal is to get in and get out....

Now take a map like Th-Breandor or Th-Payback. Yes these are amazing maps.. super detailed, huge, great layouts... But too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Block out the amazing details for a second and think of all the rooms inside the main house. Each of which is loaded with dark shadows to hide in. Now, you are a guard with 3 flares. You have 20 rooms to scan, and for every 4-5 rooms you need to goto a completely different section of the house. Impossible. So you spend most of your time waiting in the Objective room, only to find that it wasn't hard for people to figure an easy way in and out of that room. And once they got the objective on that map.. its already over.

A few design tips people should really be following when creating multiplayer maps is (IMHO of course):
  • Continuity - Keep rooms merging together, dont have a bunch of side rooms with one way in and one way out, unless you keep it down to 2 or 3 like DarkenedEnlightenment does. In Maps like Theatre, asylum, and nostalgia, all rooms lead to another room.
  • Guard balance - The spawn in Theatre, the city in Nostalgia.. those are great and heavily shadowed for a reason... and thats fine. Notice there is no loot in that area any way so there is no need for guards to go there. But the majority of loot is in well lit, with scattered shadows around the area, to keep thieves alert and on their toes, yet giving guards a chance.
  • Multiple Large loot areas - No way can a few guards (especially in these days 2 vs 2) are going to be able to guard all the loot, so notice maps like nostalgia have heavy loot areas like the Antique room, the main gallery, and the lyre. This gives guards a chance.
  • notice the "good" loot or objective is well lit normally. Or has extra protection like a watcher. Often there maybe areas that are too bright, but have torches. Giving both teams a potential advantage at different times.
  • Open areas. Nothing like a good chase, or a good escape. Asylum Reception area has nice wide openings, Theatre has a nice wide theatre, Gerome has the nice open internal terrace, Folly has large halls and ballrooms.. these are also beneficial for seeing large areas. Standing on upper balconies to look down over a large area. Its hard to guard small halls with lots of turns, rooms, and shadows.
  • Random object spawning - Loot and objectives should always spawn randomly to add change and variation

These are just some of good mapping practices IMO for TUT. Open to elaboration and additions of course. Its just a similarity I find with the original maps. City museum, although rather large, tends to fall right on the line between too big and just right. highway inn (i think thats the one with the safe in the basement) most resembles the layout of the original maps and it tends to be popular these days among the masses.


2. People fear change and love the originals they grew good with.

Last edited by WTaFa; 1st Mar 2012 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 07:08 AM   #17
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Well KAM was found to be a cheat back in the day so I wouldn't go off his tips, ha!
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 07:29 AM   #18
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Ironically that cheater contributed to community useful tips while not cheaters didn't.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 07:38 AM   #19
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Ironically, non-cheaters were playing and keeping the game alive while KAM was banned and not doing the same, very beneficial activity. Yes, KAM wrote a few sentences for you to fap on, but it never aided anyone in mapping and it never will. Unless you are planning to start your own map. That means that whatever he produced above was completely useless.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 08:19 AM   #20
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 Originally Posted by FatRatHead: ( link to post ) 
...but it never aided anyone in mapping and it never will...
May I ask about reasons of your statement? At least I find something that could be more useful then just be a lucky mapper. Seems that you agreed with his tips but strongly dislike owner of tips.
 Originally Posted by FatRatHead: ( link to post ) 
...non-cheaters were playing and keeping the game alive...
You're saying that fair players didn't contribute much to TuT mapping theory, right? Thanx, I got that.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 10:30 AM   #21
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 Originally Posted by Wtfsgsagge3wadf03fjkoai:
Ironically that cheater contributed to community useful tips while not cheaters didn't.
If by contribute you mean peck at everyones heads until everyone stopped caring then yes you are right. Ironically this is a similar situation you are in now.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 01:59 PM   #22
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 Originally Posted by WTaFa: ( link to post ) 
Ironically that cheater contributed to community useful tips while not cheaters didn't.
Wow, that's a very bold and way off base statement there. WTF makes you think that? You are really getting on peoples nerves by digging up this shit.

After all the threads you've read, and you come to that conculsion....

He's taking a break for a week. I've had enough.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 02:38 PM   #23
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I owe you a nice, chilled glass of buttermilk BA.
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Old 1st Mar 2012, 03:44 PM   #24
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I'll take a rum and coke? I let this go because I wanted to see how far this would go. It did get people talking, nothing wrong with that. This forum is quiet enough.

WTaFa, you need to chill and relax, you are too much sometimes. People don't mind helping you, but, its the way you go about it. Almost to the point of being a pest, digging up old stuff that doesn't matter anymore.

If you have a question, all you have to do is ask, not go off like you do sometimes.

Your last statement was bullshit, sorry it was. Saying KAM was the only one that helped? That offered any sort of meaningful information? Really? People here lately have tried to help you, and you totally blew that off.

After all those threads you dug up, and you came to that conclusion. You're done. My patience with you, I don't have any anymore. One more stupid remark like that. You'll get a longer ban.
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Old 2nd Mar 2012, 03:39 AM   #25
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KAM contributed to the community, but if that was a positive contribution is another matter.

WTaFa when you are posting on a forum be prepared to hear other peoples opinions that may not align with your own.

Also don't send me private messages then set your profile to not receive private messages so I can't respond to it.
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Old 2nd Mar 2012, 10:31 AM   #26
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FYI there was a mapping wiki started by orgy once which had alot more (and substantial) stuff than that.

Went away quite fast tho, prolly couldnt pay the bill >:p
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Old 15th Mar 2012, 08:26 AM   #27
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Sometimes real life problems just do the ugly trick... By the way still playing Thievery guys?
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Old 15th Mar 2012, 03:53 PM   #28
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I believe we are, it's just getting rarer and rarer.
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Old 16th Mar 2012, 07:58 PM   #29
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And how many years have people been saying that?
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Old 17th Mar 2012, 08:51 AM   #30
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Approximately 7 years
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