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Old 8th Dec 2004, 07:42 PM   #1
The_Dan
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Th-Dante (Public Beta, only 2 years late!)

You might want to check this out

Big thanks to Brody for giving me permission to upload
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Old 8th Dec 2004, 08:48 PM   #2
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I liked it a lot. I mean- a LOT! Anyways, i played it on my low-res computer, so i can't give reliable feedback on cscale issues, but the outside seems empty, adn the lighting needsto feel more.. realistic. However, you've got not lack of secret passages, and it's gonna be a killer map... wheh it's completely done, of course.
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 11:05 AM   #3
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Oh no, The_Dan is back and alive!?!

When I looking for something in the old archives I actually saw this thread again, and the screenshots were still in the thread. Aaaah, i'm psychic sometimes.
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 12:33 PM   #4
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I've given it a going-over, and there's a lot of potential here. It's like the magic lamp - give it a good rubdown and a polish and I think something powerful will appear!
But if you don't get rid of the giant torches by the front door, I'll have to Mordinate you :p
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 12:41 PM   #5
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 Originally Posted by Radamanthus:
I liked it a lot. I mean- a LOT! Anyways, i played it on my low-res computer, so i can't give reliable feedback on cscale issues, but the outside seems empty, adn the lighting needsto feel more.. realistic. However, you've got not lack of secret passages, and it's gonna be a killer map... wheh it's completely done, of course.
Cheers, I'll work a bit on the outside area, I'm thinking of losing the huge torches (the shadows they cast don't match up very accurrately with how well they light up thieves) and instead placing a few dingy streetlamps around the courtyard, kindof make it feel more functional.

 Originally Posted by PhaeThorn:
Oh no, The_Dan is back and alive!?!

When I looking for something in the old archives I actually saw this thread again, and the screenshots were still in the thread. Aaaah, i'm psychic sometimes.
I don't suppose you've got the link to the old thread on you, by any chance? I'd like to read it for nostalgic purposes.

I'm really hoping that you're going to follow up that post with something constructive aswell
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 01:11 PM   #6
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 Originally Posted by The_Dan:
I don't suppose you've got the link to the old thread on you, by any chance? I'd like to read it for nostalgic purposes.

I'm really hoping that you're going to follow up that post with something constructive aswell
Nope, not today or tomorrow. I'm working on a lot of things right now ( real life ) so i do not have the time for it. When I do have something I'll pm or email you about it.

About the link .... try this.
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 02:59 PM   #7
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Playing the game right now. Wow, there are frobbable swords! Your code seems to suggest that I can only take one per *game* and not one per life, but that doesnt sound like a big problem to me.

Its actually a pretty big map. With a LOT of secret passages...and some that will kill you if you aren't careful - ie. a secret bed which slammed on top of me. This map really needs a multi-sketch map to help guide people thought the game.

There is a problem with one room that I see: In the guest rooms, the NW room above the library with the painiting of what I guess is a small banquet, the furnature gets in the way of being able to get in the room without closing the door first. I also feel a bit claustrophobic at times around the map...but I'm not sure how it will play out yet.

I like how the guards know how to turn on the lights, but there are still plently of little spots to hide in littered across the map. I would suggest a few water crystals to help thieves with the large number of torches, however. There aren't any places that I 'lock up' in the game, which is really really good. The thief spawn out front might become a problem, if guards choose to camp the front court - you might want to move a few spawns away from there.

Make the well just a tad bit deeper, please. Its difficult to get on that rope and navigate it safely.

I guess thats all for now. Good job!
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 03:14 PM   #8
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Thumbs up

I ran through it just a bit earlier during my lunch, I agree with the others good job! Keep at it, better late than never. I do hope you polish it a bit more, its definitely worth it. Nice to have another map to play, will run through it more later.

And WELCOME BACK DAN!
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 06:10 PM   #9
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Cheers for the feedback, please keep it coming.

I keep going over the courtyard and can't seem to make a change I'm happy with, so I think I'm gonna redo it as built-up area (keeping the existing buildings), & place some houses into the empty spaces. I've got some nice streetlamps, & the addition of a few houses to hide in will make it easier for thieves to quietly get in/out of the courtyard area.

 Originally Posted by BrokenArts:
And WELCOME BACK DAN!
At least someone missed me
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Old 9th Dec 2004, 06:40 PM   #10
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I missed you too, Dan...

I haven't seen you in AGES! Since, like....Merc ended. And that was...long ago!

How've ya been, what've you been up to? Fill me in !
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Old 11th Dec 2004, 12:27 AM   #11
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Hey Dan,

I missed you too... But then I haven't been around for quite a while either. I went through much the same feeling as you at around the same time it seems. Great to see you back. I just recently DL'd your map and will be checking it out soon. I've been very busy as of late with mine also, but am really looking forward to it.

Anyway, I have a proposition for you.

I have this recent revamped ole' map that I worked my ass off on and I stupidly did a stupid thing and now it won't open for me: I was trying to add a new objective item and accidentally entered it into 'MyPackage' instead of 'MyLevel' and poof! map all gone!
Well, not really, I know it's still there but Ued2 won't accept it now, the evil spawn from hell that it is, and I've tried everything I know and was suggested to me. I've been told that I'm SOL basically...

But here's my question to you. Because I put a lot of effort into this map, and I know you are a talented coder, and your probably, well, VERY busy and all...

But I was thinking of making you a monetary offer. Yeah, that's right, cold hard cash. No, I'm not on drugs. I'm quite serious. That is, ofcourse, if your capable of going into the files code and rescueing that map for me. I would be eternally grateful. Well, I'd be appreciative anyway, I'm not a wealthy man, but I liked what I was doing on it and I'm really pissed that it's gone. I was literally weeks away from releasing it too!...

Anywho, think about it and pm me or leave a post here. I understand if your too busy, np.

Good to see you back.
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Old 11th Dec 2004, 05:14 AM   #12
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I've had a similar problem happen to me before. I'm not sure if there's a workaround to it.

Did you actually save mypackage as a .utx file? Your not meant to save the package otherwise it messes things up. Not sure if this helps here but I found something on another forums that may help.

"sometimes if you cut'n'paste from one level to another you corrupt the mylevel package, opening it crashes the editor

to fix it load the map, export it as a t3d, then import the t3d into a new map. Rebuild, save and reopen the ed. Mylevel should now work ok

And don't forget TEXTURE CULL & ACTOR ALIGN - 2 very useful commands that are 'undocumented'

semi's cut other semis, can cause visibility problems and dont help reduce occlusion.. so they can increase node counts and slow your map down if you haven't learned exactly where to use them"

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Old 11th Dec 2004, 06:46 AM   #13
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You're not allowed to save MyLevel, actually. MyPackage is ok, if unconventional.
But the problem is he added stuff to mypackage and then didn't save it.

The fix is just to start a new level, and then recreate the objective item with the same name in MyPackage. Then actually SAVE mypackage. Then when you try to load the map it will work.
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Old 11th Dec 2004, 08:11 AM   #14
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I've been at Nottingham uni for the last year and a half, & lacked an internet connection last year (which pretty much made any Thievery playing impossible). Since I've been on a Software Engineering course, I do so much programming during the day, it's hard to get into the state of mind to do some out out of university aswell. If anyones ever in Nottingham, feel free to look me up and you'll probably be able to get a drink out of me.

 Originally Posted by SiLeNt_NiGhT:
Anyway, I have a proposition for you.

I have this recent revamped ole' map that I worked my ass off on and I stupidly did a stupid thing and now it won't open for me: I was trying to add a new objective item and accidentally entered it into 'MyPackage' instead of 'MyLevel' and poof! map all gone!
Well, not really, I know it's still there but Ued2 won't accept it now, the evil spawn from hell that it is, and I've tried everything I know and was suggested to me. I've been told that I'm SOL basically...
Have you tried starting a new thread for this? My Unrealscript is a bit rusty, but this sounds like more of an issue with the Unreal engine & UED. It looks like people have a few suggestions, so they're probably better than anything I can offer at the moment.

 Originally Posted by SiLeNt_NiGhT:
But I was thinking of making you a monetary offer. Yeah, that's right, cold hard cash. No, I'm not on drugs. I'm quite serious. That is, ofcourse, if your capable of going into the files code and rescueing that map for me. I would be eternally grateful. Well, I'd be appreciative anyway, I'm not a wealthy man, but I liked what I was doing on it and I'm really pissed that it's gone. I was literally weeks away from releasing it too!...
Money not required, we're all working towards the same goal. I'd help if I could think of any suggestions.


& c'mon people, 34 downloads and only 4 posts about the actual map? I need feedback!
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Old 20th Dec 2004, 07:51 PM   #15
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Ok, played this online a bit with others:

The ai are really paranoid, frobbing doors rouses them. - bad
If you kill/ko 1 ai, then at least 3 come running. - bad
If you flash the watchers after they are turned off, they turn back on again.
Hissy is just not strong enough.
Not enough places to hide inside - too much light overall.
The doors get in the way quite a bit.
Near the library, you have vases behind breakable glass, with the ammount of light and AI's watching, it almost makes it too tough to taff.
A sketchmap is needed.
How do you open the front gate? The AI seem to be able to do it, maybe I am just blind.
Needs a couple spawns away from the front court.
Probably an extra entrance in, along with roof access.
The front torches are a bit much.
The big desk in the library on the shelves seems out of place.

All in all, its a decent map, and you obviously put a lot of hard work and time into scripting this level. I am pretty sure I haven't learned all there is to know on the map, and I will keep exploring.

As for the lighting, I would probably just lower the radius a bit on all of them. Try having doors open differnet ways, or even slide in if you need the room so its easier to move about.

An idea: with your scripting genious, why not have the thieves swap a 'fake' obj for the real one ala thief.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 08:21 AM   #16
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 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Ok, played this online a bit with others:
The ai are really paranoid, frobbing doors rouses them. - bad
Disagree, humans react to doors, why not ai?

If you kill/ko 1 ai, then at least 3 come running. - bad
Disagree, If you KO an AI, 3 or 4 humans come running, Good, more human behaivour.

If you flash the watchers after they are turned off, they turn back on again.
It's like a burst of electricity! but yeah, could be bad.

An idea: with your scripting genious, why not have the thieves swap a 'fake' obj for the real one ala thief.
GREAT IDEA.

Oh and welcome back Dan :-)
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 09:12 AM   #17
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Humans don't always come running when an AI is koed, nor do humans always assume that a thief is comming though the door. The point is that there really aren't enough places to hide when the AI come looking, I guess.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 10:48 AM   #18
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 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Humans don't always come running when an AI is koed, nor do humans always assume that a thief is comming though the door. The point is that there really aren't enough places to hide when the AI come looking, I guess.
HAHA! thats why you humans are so easy!

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. Good players use the sound of a KO to track thieves. You get on a server full of guildies and KO an AI, if your the last theif - they'll be coming for you.

Also, flap a door about in front of me without a shiny hunky man guard on the other side and there'll be a flare and a hail of bolts headed your way.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 11:51 AM   #19
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 Originally Posted by TheMachine:
Also, flap a door about in front of me without a shiny hunky man guard on the other side and there'll be a flare and a hail of bolts headed your way.
LMAO!
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 06:17 PM   #20
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 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Ok, played this online a bit with others:

The ai are really paranoid, frobbing doors rouses them. - bad
Really? I must have my difficulty turned down, because I never noticed that. Although, I'd rather that the AI are extra-sharp on some accounts, they should be better than human guards IMO, although I might see if I can randomise their awareness a bit.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
If you kill/ko 1 ai, then at least 3 come running. - bad
Hmm, that's probably not ideal, seeing as blackjack is supposed to be stealthy. However, this is a TUT engine issue, not just my map. If I made the guards ignore this (somehow), then it would be deviating from the standard AI in Thievery.

I'm trying to make the AI more human-like, but I don't believe in dumbing their reflexes down as a counter-balance. This matter is controlled by the AI-intelligence setting (intelligence actually equals reflexes and awareness in TUT, not 'intelligence'), & so you would need to pick an "intelligence" setting that you're happy with.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
If you flash the watchers after they are turned off, they turn back on again.
Again, an engine issue. I assume the same would probably apply in any map where the watchers can be turned off. Feel free to correct me, if it is just my map. However, I have not scripted any changes to the watchers.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Hissy is just not strong enough.
OK, I'll see what I can do. I'm not quite sure what to do with the spider when it's released at the mo. I don't want it to go on an OTT guard killing spree, due to how it's appearance is triggered (I don't want to spoil this one for people who haven't found it yet).

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Not enough places to hide inside - too much light overall.
Agreed. This is one of my main priorities (I'm hoping to reduce the overall lighting by about a quarter).

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
The doors get in the way quite a bit.
Hmm, I noticed this but unsure how to proceed. Maybe I should play around with some mechanical sliding doors for the inner regions of the fortress.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Near the library, you have vases behind breakable glass, with the ammount of light and AI's watching, it almost makes it too tough to taff.
Aww, I liked them. I'll make them less well lit, or more optionable.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
A sketchmap is needed.
Expect the layout to possibly change slightly in future versions, and so this is a minor priority for now.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
How do you open the front gate? The AI seem to be able to do it, maybe I am just blind.
Location:There is a switch in the watchtower
However, the AI shouldn't be opening the damn thing
Another engine issue, although I did have a fix that Microwave Oven provided for ThDoor, but it doesn't seem to work any more. Perhaps I've just flicked a property that I shouldn't have, somewhere.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Probably an extra entrance in, along with roof access.
There are currently five different entrances from the courtyard! Next version may have an extra one, but expect some of them to be slightly more concealed from view

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
Needs a couple spawns away from the front court.
&
The front torches are a bit much.
They're gone, expect a completely new courtyard in the next version (little buildings and streetlamps, instead of grass and torches: much more interesting and easier to sneak around)

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
The big desk in the library on the shelves seems out of place.
Yeah, I wanted something in that spot, but I didn't know what. I'll probably remove the area and place something decorative there instead.

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
All in all, its a decent map, and you obviously put a lot of hard work and time into scripting this level. I am pretty sure I haven't learned all there is to know on the map, and I will keep exploring.

As for the lighting, I would probably just lower the radius a bit on all of them. Try having doors open differnet ways, or even slide in if you need the room so its easier to move about.
Thanks, its an early version but I needed feedback to spur me on to finish it off

 Originally Posted by Kiech Bepho:
An idea: with your scripting genious, why not have the thieves swap a 'fake' obj for the real one ala thief.
A nice idea, but I'm too busy fixing map issues at the mo.
Question: If the guards realised that the amulet is taken at any point (ie. a dead thief drops it, or a thief fails to swap the amulets discretely), then surely the entire attempt to subtly replace the amulet is failed?

Currently, I think the amulet is too vulnerable (the Great Hall feels like a sniper's paradise) and so I'm toying with different ways of stepping up it's security (some nice Folly-esque particle effects will prolly be a nice start, for spotting the amulet if dropped).


Keep the feedback coming please
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 08:30 PM   #21
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A small suggestion: i nthe crypt, thre's the large iron bar gates. Unfortuneately, if some rager teammate or an enemy closes you in you're stuck. You ought to be able to open thrm from within.
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 06:04 AM   #22
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But... if they're openable from inside, the undead can escape!
Nooooo! Fear the undead!
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 08:06 AM   #23
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 Originally Posted by Radamanthus:
A small suggestion: in the crypt, there's the large iron bar gates. Unfortunately, if some rager teammate or an enemy closes you in you're stuck. You ought to be able to open them from within.
I think the last time I checked, I was able to open them from inside by leaning against the bars. Would people prefer something more like a candle/torch that opens them from inside? Or maybe a button outside that can be hit with an arrow by careful shooters?

I kindof liked the idea of being able to trap people in the crypts, (enforces a bit of covering eachothers' backs in a team-game) but I guess I need to cause some kind of death if a player gets locked in for too long.

I can't stop ragers locking people in, any more than I can stop ragers doing any other annoying activity.
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 03:23 PM   #24
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you do have a point, and it also allows for forcing guards to suicide, then you can getthier items.

Yeah. your idea of eventul death sounds better.
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 04:32 PM   #25
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maybe make the ground a switch, so if the door is closed and someone is on it, an invisible crusher comes along and kills them.
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Old 2nd Jan 2005, 01:36 PM   #26
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Haven't played this myself, but anyway...

Mordengaard had the right idea - undead of some sort spawning Serious Sam style, which are instantly dissolved (ala T3 zombie?) when either the trapped pawn dies, or the gates are opened.
Could be zombies or haunts so you can fend them off while you wait for rescue, or ghosts/etheral beings which slowly enshroud you in darkness ala RtCW...
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Old 2nd Jan 2005, 06:25 PM   #27
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 Originally Posted by MortalMonkey:
Mordengaard had the right idea - undead of some sort spawning Serious Sam style, which are instantly dissolved (ala T3 zombie?) when either the trapped pawn dies, or the gates are opened.
Could be zombies or haunts so you can fend them off while you wait for rescue, or ghosts/etheral beings which slowly enshroud you in darkness ala RtCW...
Possible, but the main problem is size, I made the individual crypts very small for simplicity. If I start spawning stuff in them, then things are gonna get very cramped.

I might expand the crypts at a later date, but that would only be because I got bored of working on something more important like the courtyard.

My hands are tied for the next fortnight workwise, but hopefully I should be able to quickly get a new version out, after that.

Just out of curiousity, has anyone tried this map in a multiplayer game yet?
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Old 3rd Jan 2005, 06:28 AM   #28
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Played around in it abit and it looks like its gonna be fun. Especially when some of the rather doomish (crypts, sewers *choughcough*) and sometimes unproportional (billard bar room *choughcough*) looking parts - which are surely only that way because its a beta - are smoothed out

Agree with Mordengaard, what by the beard of Baator did ya drink while implementing those torches? - make some stone pots or something like for example that lion torch in the second level of TDS

Since its only a beta i find it hard to come up with valid suggestions, ill list some things i noticed and might be worth looking after instead

1. Really dont like those big lights in the library. The stairs (not sure) in there produce a BSP hole which ya can see when entering the room thru the arches below.
2. In that long hallway ya reach by going into the front hall and up the stairs into the first door the AI seems very prone to gathering up at the slightest ruckus. Got 5 or 6 collected there and Dmed em abit by tossing some Flashbombs ^_^
3. Parts of a tree stick into that wooden hallway up right from the entrance. I got stuck in there coz the ledge in that little chapel was too high to get up again, the windows too small to get out and i also didnt have the key to the only door.
4. Uhm, my brain fails me, i hate words. Look at the first screenshot O<o
5. A Stool! And its LOOOT! And it shrinks! And it is peaceful and makes my weapons unusable
6. The clocks! They go all wrong!

Good map, keep up polishing that lamp.

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