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Old 9th Dec 2010, 04:02 PM   #91
immortius
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 Originally Posted by FixXxeR: ( link to post ) 
What has been done about the sound - other than making thieves silent crawl, has anything been done guardside?
The way sounds are handled has been changed so that the volume drops off slower with distance, but that they aren't played at all below a minimum volume. The former is a benefit to guards since they can now hear clearer without having special hardware or something, while the latter is a slight benefit to thieves as it helps them be silent, but in general enforces how things are supposed to be (the sounds which aren't played are quiet enough you shouldn't hear them anyway). The overall radius of sounds may have been decreased as well - hard to tell, because I couldn't find the default radius documented anywhere.

Lockpicking sound radius has been reduced - perhaps a little too much, the radius is quite small at the moment. Thieves are silent when moving slow enough. A couple of bugs with the footstepping system were fixed as well - moss wasn't stopping footstep noise for anyone except the player themselves, the issue with having silent footsteps when moving along the edge of things was fixed, a few things like that.

So there is a mixture of things there. Having thieves silent when moving slowly is probably the most significant, but at the same time necessary as previously guards with good audio setup or sound boosting software had an advantage over others. Having a speed range in which thieves are silent prevents this sort of issue, and gives thief players some peace of mind that they can move in the shadows without being seen or heard.
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Old 9th Dec 2010, 11:47 PM   #92
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V17 is running a new flashbomb system to balance the steep radius falloff of the old flash system. Turning away from the flash still reduces it, and flashes still do not stack - rather the best throw takes effect. The AI flashing system has not changed.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 10:41 AM   #93
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last time it's hard to flash anyone, i hope you didn't make it even harder then it already was.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 11:13 AM   #94
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The idea was to change the "15 seconds or nothing" system, and make things a little more even.
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Old 11th Dec 2010, 05:07 AM   #95
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I think you should keep the first post up to date Shug, since currently it still says that V12 is the latest release.
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Old 11th Dec 2010, 06:46 AM   #96
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And put there "beta" so some people would not think that it's final version of "v18" and it can be risky to install it on their servers or they will kill own servers with promod like Brody did. You couldn't play for week or two on Brody's servers because he tried to install promod and it was completely unsuccessful. Since then Brody's servers are empty.

And for @#%$#%# put in server name "testing promod" or something like this!
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Old 11th Dec 2010, 04:32 PM   #97
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Bandit, calm the hate down mate.

They are free to do what they want with their server, as was Brody.
People aren't on Brodies simply because there is a more even balance of pings on Krondor, as well as having the latest Promod installed. Fact of the matter is, more people are playing because of the mod, and when we get even more, Brodies will naturally fill up again.

You could hate on the fact Brody has 2 types of servers running as well eh Give the people what they want.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 12:49 AM   #98
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I've updated the original post to indicate we're now at v19, which also includes the new flashbomb system and an experimental rope/ladder model warp fix. As usual immort is delivering the goods.

Unfortunately, any loadouts with flash in them will be broken. Once you remake them they will work on both ProMod and non-ProMod servers.

I have changed the Krondor server name so any returning players know why the game is different, but it looks like the masterlist may take a while to get that done.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 04:12 AM   #99
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Something I thought about after a little bug I had the other night.

Would it be possible to disable the scoreboard for guards, unless you are near an AI player?

Not being able to see if guards had been removed was/is quite unnerving, having the AI modifier would mean people would look after the ai more. Map still worked, but it's not as easy to summarize the guards with multilevel maps and leaves you open to punishment.
You also wouldn't know how many lives you have to burn.

Only a half serious suggestion.
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Old 12th Dec 2010, 11:37 PM   #100
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 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
which also includes the new flashbomb system and an experimental rope/ladder model warp fix.
I just have to say that watching a thief climb a vine without warping whatsoever was an amazing sight.
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Old 13th Dec 2010, 01:49 AM   #101
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Agg, I think that is a fascinating idea and even though it maybe shouldn't be a part of this ProMod business (not saying that's how I feel, but I do think it would probably require a lot of discussion as it's one of those small changes that actually could have a big impact), I would love to see a mutator that could do this for specialty games and such. It's like playing first person shooters with no radar. Or something. Not that I play those.
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Old 13th Dec 2010, 03:34 AM   #102
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Insurgency on the source engine only updates your score when you died or the round ended, I think Americas Army did it too.

To be honest though, it would be simpler to remove the scoreboard altogether until the end of the round. I don't think there is anything that players should be looking at on there during the game anyway!
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Old 13th Dec 2010, 05:37 AM   #103
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That's not a bad idea. Guards knowing exactly where AI / teammates are at any point is a big advantage.
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Old 13th Dec 2010, 07:02 AM   #104
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Pro-mod. Mod for pro's right? I think 'no scoreboard' should be implemented.

Not just for the guard reason, although probably the best reason, but also so that thieves have an opportunity to communicate on how much loot they've hauled, rather than looking at the scores. Pro-communication.
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Old 13th Dec 2010, 07:16 AM   #105
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I'd keep thief scoreboard in. You usually have far less information on where your teammates are ("Outside" being fairly common), and needing to constantly add up loot and whatnot is absurd in a public setting. This is especially taking into account that you often have multi-item objectives that need to be tracked also, such as on theatre or aqua.

More accurately I think you'd have a guard scoreboard showing your own kills / points, the end of your "shift" (i.e. timeleft) and possibly other things, but not the location of your teammates or AI count.

You would still be notified by the game when you were the last guard left, a current feature.
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 12:01 AM   #106
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You could change the thief board to just *Total Loot* instead of everyones score. You could even just have that displayed permanently on the side of the screen.
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 04:38 AM   #107
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With summary how much of loot remained to objective.
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 06:46 AM   #108
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well keep it simple one way or the other.

"Loot in hands/loot needed."
734/1000
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 06:47 AM   #109
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How would you determine which thieves needed to exit if you could only see total loot?
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 07:58 AM   #110
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Theoretically you'd have to have people type their amount. I think it's probably better to stick with the current thief scoreboard, and just edit the Guard display.
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 08:33 AM   #111
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Pro-communication suggestion its good but Shugs probably right, the issue is with the guards knowing the AI from across the level has just been KO'd so stick with sorting that.
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 12:45 PM   #112
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I take it you'll also be removing guard position from the map.
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Old 14th Dec 2010, 10:47 PM   #113
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Thief wise it really depends if you expect them to communicate. I know if myself, mach and fix played together we wouldn't need the scoreboard as we would tell eachother how much loot we had personally.

I expect them to be working together basically.
A thief team can sometimes work against eachother by loading loot up on two, three or 4 players at once, when it's easier for 1 or 2 to escape than 4.


I think it's fine to have the map with AI on, since it leaves you blind, unlike the scoreboard which you could technically play with open.

Let's face it, if you really got serious about keeping both sides even, you would simply limit everyone to a single life and start there. This would instantly create a level field, and make AI placement and use extra important.
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Old 15th Dec 2010, 03:32 AM   #114
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 Originally Posted by Aggamemnon: ( link to post ) 
I think it's fine to have the map with AI on, since it leaves you blind, unlike the scoreboard which you could technically play with open.
100% this
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Old 15th Dec 2010, 04:06 AM   #115
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 Originally Posted by Aggamemnon: ( link to post ) 
Let's face it, if you really got serious about keeping both sides even, you would simply limit everyone to a single life and start there. This would instantly create a level field, and make AI placement and use extra important.
I wager some rounds would be less than 60 seconds.

On the map thing, I don't know if its possible to do a 'last known position' so when you can see a guard he is on your map, then when out of view the guard icon on the map greys out and stays in the last known location. Prolly a little coding involved there though.
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Old 15th Dec 2010, 06:52 AM   #116
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A single life idea for everyone is very good for tournaments but not for normal games where single mistake shouldn't finish your game. I think that 2 lives for every single thief on most maps should be best option. As guards you should be allowed to inhabit max. 3 AIs of course only if there would be AI still on map or make guards lives unrelated with AI, give them 2 lives per player and after kill or KO spawn them in few spawns that are located outside the main building or loot area. IMO life limit for every single player should be implemented in the game from the beginning and mappers should be allowed to adjust this limit for their maps as well as admins on their servers by overriding maps settings (mapper could make mistake). This would remove life waster problem, make guards more careful in darkness and suicider wouldn't be able to waste all lives.
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Old 15th Dec 2010, 10:03 AM   #117
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Some good thoughts on the lives system. I think the AI holding lives for guards system will stay, it's a good game dynamic if we can balance the teams properly. Losing AI forces some responsibility from players.

We're testing immort's new dynamic blackjack arc based on thief visibility. When you equip the BJ you'll see the degrees on your screen (for information only, not a feature). Unfortunately, we've managed to re-re-break loadouts with flash in them. Hopefully that'll be resolved next update, but in the meantime please remake your loadouts.
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Old 16th Dec 2010, 02:05 PM   #118
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It doesn't work video.
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Old 16th Dec 2010, 04:26 PM   #119
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The arc is for the guard's back, not the thief's front silly. Admittedly it isn't obvious what it refers to and I'm unsure how to communicate it in-game. Basically the idea is the brighter lit the thief, the small the guard's rear arc becomes.

That said I've found a few bugs with the calculations.
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 01:59 AM   #120
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First post updated. Catfall potions are now soundless to drink, immort has made some changes to base blackjack code (as above), and the dynamic blackjack radius based on thief visibility is now properly implemented.
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