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Old 4th Mar 2008, 09:35 AM   #1
-KewlAzMe-
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Are you accepting ideas from the community?

I was wondering, at this early stage if you would be looking at any ideas from the community for NB.

Some ideas:
  • Let us feign! Thieves are sneaky and feign would certainly be a sneaky move. Even let guards feign for balance reasons.
  • Let players fall down. You know how in UT3 when a Deemer goes off somewhere near you, you fall on your ass from a standing position, even if you don't take damage from the blast. Perhaps falling from a high position, thats not fatal has a random chance that you could land funny and fall.
  • Maybe lesser things can cause tripping.. In fact How about a trip wire trap?
  • Arrow distance based on how far back you pull the bow
  • Allow vines to drape over multiple layers and follow physics.
  • Helmeted Guards can withstand a single Power KO but get screen temporarily black or like black hazy and gives a slight dizzy/crack feeling but not as intense or as long.. like 3 seconds just to disorientate.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 10:18 AM   #2
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If you don't add feign or dodge in to the main game, at least don't completely hack it up like was done in TUT... so that in 4 years we can at least add dodge mutators back in to make some new games
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 11:00 AM   #3
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the feign is a cool idea but i honestly dont think it'll work.

i still vote for making the thieves able to make a whistle that sounds quite loud. like in "speech" menu in tut where you can choose random quotes "id had to put your friends to sleep" etc, there should be "whistle" that makes the thief do a loud whistle, like a signal for other thieves. "on my signal you rush there or there etc" ofc guards can hear it, but that'll only be good, can do like fake whistles etc.. maybe allow to only do one whistle per 5 minutes or something, dont wanna have these kids running around whistling every second making nb sound like some rediculas hiphop beat or something..
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 11:07 AM   #4
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double post soz.. anyway, i also vote for on some map, there should be some place where you can frob INTO the "eyes" of a whistler that hangs somewhere (like in a objective room or something). would be so nick to coop that shit in voice for example.. one thief is looking over the objective room while he speaks to the other thief thats gonna do the attempt "guard going left, he went inside the door, its clear, go NOW" etc.. this is what thief is all about >.< he'd also have to watch his back since he has no view behind him or whatever.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 11:20 AM   #5
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Ya, they actually have whistle in TUT.. but never implemented it.. instead it just does the same as whisper. But I agree.. kinda like the birdcall for basso.. but whistle should be free to do.

Another idea, it would be nice to have some sort of alert on the map when a fellow guard has called for help. Like a help button that goes along with the bind of "Thief Here. Need Backup!" and then other guards could hit the map button and see the flashing icon of the guard that just called for help.

Or at the very least, make human guards have a diff icon so you can at least spot them out of the dozen other icons on the map.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 12:58 PM   #6
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less good idea imo. remember, this type of game has to be kinda "realistic" due to the thieving.. kinda takes out the charm of the sneakyness in a way..i think its enuff with just beeing able to bind the button saying "THIEF HERE!" in teamchat.

 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
Or at the very least, make human guards have a diff icon so you can at least spot them out of the dozen other icons on the map.
and thats exactly what you SHOULDNT be able to do.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 01:11 PM   #7
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I think it'd be good if when you do send a message to your team it does show up your location next to the message. Thievery has that but it's a bit hit and miss imo.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 01:16 PM   #8
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Well its less realistic already with the inclusion of the map with radar icons anyway... may as well go the full way with additional features. I mean there's no realism in invisi or catfall potions either.. and "Watching through the eyes of a whistler" isn't too realistic ? (don't get me wrong, I like the idea)

Actually on that idea, didn't someone do that in a Thief2 FM where there were long periscope tubes that you could look through to see the hallways that they were routed to? that would be a bit more realistic
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 01:17 PM   #9
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 Originally Posted by LoUie: ( link to post ) 
less good idea imo. remember, this type of game has to be kinda "realistic" due to the thieving.. kinda takes out the charm of the sneakyness in a way..i think its enuff with just beeing able to bind the button saying "THIEF HERE!" in teamchat.



and thats exactly what you SHOULDNT be able to do.
That's exactly what I wanted to say.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 02:33 PM   #10
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 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
Well its less realistic already with the inclusion of the map with radar icons anyway... may as well go the full way with additional features. I mean there's no realism in invisi or catfall potions either.. and "Watching through the eyes of a whistler" isn't too realistic ? (don't get me wrong, I like the idea)

Actually on that idea, didn't someone do that in a Thief2 FM where there were long periscope tubes that you could look through to see the hallways that they were routed to? that would be a bit more realistic
dude, you're missing the whole POINT. i cant believe you're coughing up these words and you're suppose to be a "thief fan"? catfall and invis isnt realistic no but it doesnt "ruin" the whole point of what the game is based on. beeing stealthy, sneaky and thieving stuff, revealing locations and having a big arrow over your head "THIEF HERE" nah dude, that AINT thief, that aint thief at all. the thing in teamchat is nearly a must because of the balance and which i wrote in another thread about mp games beeing played so hardcore and on so high lvl today. this is standards today in most of the games, having more than that is just rediculas, esp. in a game like this.. would be a total joke here.

there must be some unrealistic stuff in every game to make it good and to make it work, but those things you're coming up with just ruins the unique game idea and the word "thief" imo.
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 02:47 PM   #11
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It's no different than saying "Thief here in the Main Gallery" or saying "Thief Here" and the whisper text shows your location "Main Gallery". Sometimes when chasing a thief you don't have time to type out the full area.

So if you say "Thief here" and you are on a map that has generic location zones like "outside" or "grounds" as a general area.. then its hard to know if they are outside in front or outside in back. So at least you'll have some idea where they are if the mappers don't include proper zoning by looking at your map and seeing they are outside front.

What you are saying means you dislike the existing Thievery way as well.

This idea is just a way of helping lazy mappers stay lazy. So as long as they include proper zones, this won't be needed. But its technically the same effect. Same as using TS to tell the full location of the thief. So people on TS should have more benefit than people not on TS? G>R
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 04:46 PM   #12
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the more features, the more >sooner or later abused< bugs
i think thievery is almost perfect in the simplicity, and still it has almost infinity ways to do something if you know what i mean
i'd suggest to remove glitches from thievery, maybe add some physics "bonuses" or whatever, and then, release
(also make it so cuba will be able to run it on her computer )
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 05:01 PM   #13
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 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
It's no different than saying "Thief here in the Main Gallery" or saying "Thief Here" and the whisper text shows your location "Main Gallery". Sometimes when chasing a thief you don't have time to type out the full area.

So if you say "Thief here" and you are on a map that has generic location zones like "outside" or "grounds" as a general area.. then its hard to know if they are outside in front or outside in back.
exactly.

 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
So at least you'll have some idea where they are
yet again.. thats exactly what you SHOULDNT know.

 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
What you are saying means you dislike the existing Thievery way as well.
exactly what i DIDNT say.

thats why using TS gives the advantage. making the game have those advantages without using TS is just to unrealistic and makes the game crap. esp. in a game like this. i srsly cant understand how im havnig this discussion..
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Old 4th Mar 2008, 06:55 PM   #14
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I can't really see how its such a bad discussion.

You can either

A) Type: "Thief here in Main Gallery" - at which point the thief could escape
or
B) Hit keybind for "Thief Here" which shows location if specified. In the case of Main Gallery it would show "Main Gallery: Thief Here"
or
C) Hit keybind for "Thief Here" when in a generic or non-zoned area. Like Outside. Which Won't be helpful so you have to look at your radar map and search for the icon
or
D) Say where you are on TS.

You are arguing that it isn't "Thiefy" like its some horrible idea. Yet TS and Radar maps aren't thiefy anyway. And you are promoting the use of TS, which is fine, but "reading" the text on the screen shouldn't be any different than "hearing" the location in your ears on TS. There is nothing even anti-Thief about the idea.. its basic team assistance as much as being able to shout to eachother.

Its like saying "TeamSay" ruins the game because you can type whispers across the map, but its ok for people in TS to scream it over the airwaves to eachother.

The only valid point would be that It would be up to the person that needs backup to tell you more information about where he is, and shouldn't be relied on the other guards to look it up. In which case that would be a valid retort to a valid idea... but to shake it off as if I'm offending everything you believe in is completely without warrant as its six in one, half-dozen in the other.

Why should the fact that you can afford a microphone and/or bandwidth be more "Realistic" to give you an advantage than people who bought the game and are using the ingame features of typing on their keyboard? How does that even make sense in your head? Especially when you bring up the point of "Thiefyness" and "unrealistic".

When TUT first came out people complained about the little headset that the guard models have.. yet its ok that the players have one? The fact is TS or nonTS should have no advantage for something as mundane as knowing where your teammate needs help at, and if the mapper added zones.. are you gonna not play that map because now the non-TS players have an unfair advantage of knowing where they are?

The point of auto-adding the location information is to remove the reality of having to type extra, and imply where the help is needed. If the zones weren't written well, then its not the players fault and they shouldn't be penalized for bad mapping while people on TS are unaffected by it.

Thats the complete antithesis of Balance.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 03:03 AM   #15
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Kam, the current system was so abused that there were players (good players who could beat you as guards on most maps 1v1 most of the time) who spent majority of their playtime staring at map-though this could be later used against them but I'm goin OT. It became something much much worse than it was supposed to be (as with many features introduced later to the thievery - not given much thought), no longer an aid, rather an exploit.

Save us from that, made the game suffer IMO, less stealthy, more strategic. That's not to mention how the map got to be abused later.

Louie you're having this discussion because you're assuming he's aware of the obvious.
You need to say it, in full detail, in spite of the annoyance. Many people are less experienced and thoughtful, they've got the right to know what's going on too, yes it may include the devs too.

For the locational thingy it may be as easy as typing one (1) letter to tell them your location. For instance on Nostalgia on grounds, you type E for east and that's it, and Nostalgia is a big map.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 03:07 AM   #16
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Typing %L in a whisper adds the location to the chat string in Nightblade, although Darkened Enlightenment doesn't have much in the way of location volumes at the moment. Try doing it while in the moat or in the exits though.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 03:11 AM   #17
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I forgot to add that it leads to players relying on others checking the map and locations...
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 07:12 AM   #18
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 Originally Posted by immortius: ( link to post ) 
Typing %L in a whisper adds the location to the chat string in Nightblade, although Darkened Enlightenment doesn't have much in the way of location volumes at the moment. Try doing it while in the moat or in the exits though.
Yea I was wondering if UT3 supported the % commands like UT2004. Good to know. And good to see that will be returning with NB... tho it will ruin the game for FRH and Louie.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 07:43 AM   #19
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You have obviously no intentions to even attempt to understand do you.
It was the map idea I opposed, not that lil thing.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 09:26 AM   #20
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to KAM

what rock did you crawl out from? i sure bet you didnt come from the thief community or something similar at first.

i'll put it like this;

1)about TS.. TS users will _ALWAYS_ have an advantage in every game, even in all future games aswell, that cannot be changed. but in most games, it just gives a slight advantage, its not like "use ts and get instant win" sure tho, it might have a bigger advantage in a game like thievery, but still.. everyone has pretty much accepted that by now, teams know they'll have to focus abit more going up towards a team with ts. doesnt mean they cannot win.

most important is that you can actually play tut/nb correctly without using ts anyway so.. learn that ingame features and ts is two different things, having to many features in the game could ruin it, esp. to many features that has something to do with locations, esp. in a game like tut/nb! thats plain rediculaas imo. what im trying to say is, they should have the same location-system in NB as in TUT.. NO MORE!

the only thing they could fix is more specific areas when saying "THIEF HERE" in teamchat, for example "Outside (Back) THIEF HERE" and "Outside (Front) Thief here" we dont need no rediculas guard blinking on the map showing EXACTLY where the thief is or a big arrow that appears from the sky pointing the thief out following him around like you were suggesting.. we fans dont want that. you were talking about "titles" says what the game/movie is, what you're suggestion right now is no where close to the title "thief/sneaky/stealth" imo. remember, im talking about the game itself here, NOT TS atm, its two completly different things.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 09:45 AM   #21
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Ah I see.. I think I may have been misleading based on misunderstanding of what you were arguing against. I can agree that the map idea is a unneeded based on your points that you have made, but my main point was the outside(front), outside(rear) thing.. which is what I was going on about. The map blinking was just a side bar to the radar thing.. I was trying to cover all realms of the potential idea, to see where it could go.

I will try to keep the ideas separated a bit more to not confuse. Tho a bit more constructive debating from your end might help to clear up which idea you were against.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 11:27 AM   #22
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Mech beasts!
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 07:12 PM   #23
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 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
If you don't add feign or dodge in to the main game, at least don't completely hack it up like was done in TUT... so that in 4 years we can at least add dodge mutators back in to make some new games
Maybe an equip-able:
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 07:28 PM   #24
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LOL yes! The Guards will totally fall for that.
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Old 5th Mar 2008, 07:31 PM   #25
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UT3 has in-game voice comm, so everyone should have access to voice communication. People may appreciate being able to use speech binds effectively though, putting in locations is essentially up to mappers now because Immort has got the system more or less working.

If plausible, I would like the server option of spectating after being eliminated to be restricted to viewing team-mates - like in other games. Essentially this is for competative play, to avoid 'ghosting' (not the stealthy kind) with 3rd party voice-comm programs.
If a player joins the 'spectator team', this is a different story of course.
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 04:57 AM   #26
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 Originally Posted by TafferBoy: ( link to post ) 
UT3 has in-game voice comm, so everyone should have access to voice communication. People may appreciate being able to use speech binds effectively though, putting in locations is essentially up to mappers now because Immort has got the system more or less working.

If plausible, I would like the server option of spectating after being eliminated to be restricted to viewing team-mates - like in other games. Essentially this is for competative play, to avoid 'ghosting' (not the stealthy kind) with 3rd party voice-comm programs.
If a player joins the 'spectator team', this is a different story of course.
the in-game voice comm is just like splinter cell has, which made me think of a cool feature. in splinter cell the thieves can actually shoot something on the guards (without them noticing) and can hear their voice, when they're communicating. now i dont know if its possible to make it happen in nb and i know we're in a completly different time LOL so might not suit nb in that way..but its cool tho. tut do afterall have orbs <- (dont really know how they work). but this thing with hearing the opposite teams voice comm gives a nice advantage and is very cool, you could buy them at start for a little ammount of loot and after shooting it on a guard it will last 3 minutes or something, or more :p

its a good idea with the ghosting thing but i dont think that will work in nb.. since a match in tut/nb can last very long, its a game of patience >.< its also quite easy to tell if someone is ghosting in tut/nb or using radar, and they will be afraid of doing that, because if someone caughts them, they'll get banned. ppl wont have the patience to sit around looking at nothing when have died, it'll make ppl disconnect, also make some ppl wanna spectate more than joining sometimes aswell. if it should be possible to view any of the players after getting killed its the team-mates, not the opponents. viewing opponents you can do that hardcore type of ghosting.
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 12:15 PM   #27
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Voice comm doesnt realy sound great for a Thief inspired multiplayer game, it can cause people to mic annoying sounds, make large flame-fests and cause alot of annoyance since sound is also important for this game..

I'd rather not hear any player voices at all rather then having annoying kids screaming through theyre mic..

Besides, most old time Thief players rather go solo, they think having a teammate might slow them down.
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 12:34 PM   #28
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 Originally Posted by HawK047: ( link to post ) 
Voice comm doesnt realy sound great for a Thief inspired multiplayer game, it can cause people to mic annoying sounds, make large flame-fests and cause alot of annoyance since sound is also important for this game..

I'd rather not hear any player voices at all rather then having annoying kids screaming through theyre mic..

Besides, most old time Thief players rather go solo, they think having a teammate might slow them down.
well, kinda true, but then it would be better having a feature to mute it whenever you want maybe.. could be cool to get some inside information on what they are planning now and then..

the last one may be a bit too oldschool.. thats mostly randomness on public to its max, so i dont se this "solo" thing beeing relevant somehow. would be better if this game became abit bigger than tut has ever been, more competetive with actually guilds beeing active and so on.. a game isnt big when its played on public. hardcore games shouldnt never be played public, so i hope there will be alot of active guilds in nb and thus creates a competetive scene.
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 03:46 PM   #29
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To be honest.... The reason why I love Thief so damn much, is because you're actually pretty limited and that you have to make advantage of your surroundings - not being Sam Fisher and rely on every damn gadget you can find. I just want to say that because a gadget or feature is fun in game A doesn't mean it will in game B.... Sometimes simplicity is best.
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 04:10 PM   #30
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 Originally Posted by Denny: ( link to post ) 
To be honest.... The reason why I love Thief so damn much, is because you're actually pretty limited and that you have to make advantage of your surroundings - not being Sam Fisher and rely on every damn gadget you can find.
yeah, you mean in the game Thief? the SINGLEPLAYER one? its impossible comparing thief-singleplayer to THIEVERY-MULTIPLAYER just so you know.

 Originally Posted by Denny: ( link to post ) 
I just want to say that because a gadget or feature is fun in game A doesn't mean it will in game B.... Sometimes simplicity is best.
totaly aware of that, otherwise i wouldnt have suggested it. it is afterall a "thief feature" but i werent really going to hard on it, i said that it might not suit nb because of the times beeing kinda medievil, i just spoke my mind.
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