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Old 29th May 2004, 08:24 PM   #1
Phil
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Talking Suggestions?

First off, as I'm sure you've all heard, this mod is simply amazing. My friends and I just were playing a co-op campaign on LAN (on easy) and had a ton of fun.

I got home and started the campaign in single player, and while the bots have much better aim than my friends, they obviously don't have near the amount of teamwork.

Have you guys considered expanding on the orders menu by adding formations and waypoints? One thing that really hampered my progress in SP was the lack of control over my squad without actually switching to them and moving them myself. This can get rather clumsy.

One problem is that they would all bunch up and sometimes would all be watching the same direction. If there was a command to form a "stack" formation (for example) with someone watching the rear, left and right while I play pointman watching the front. That would alleviate a lot of problems. Other formations could be a "V" a "box" etc... Each formation would be better suited for different situations. A tight box for example would be ideal for fighting off large oncoming swarms from all directions while a stack would be ideal for navigating narrow hallways/vents with unknown swarm activity/direction. And it would also be useful if you could control the speed and stance of your squad to make them crouch, or advance slowly while scanning the area for added accuracy/awareness for example.

***Something I think that would be very useful, is if you made usable objects (like doors/terminals/panels/ammo boxes and even other marines) interactive. What I mean by this is if you right click on the object, you can issue a "hack/weld/seal/pick up/heal" command and the nearest marine with the capability to do the order will move there and carry it out. You could get your voice actors back to record "Seal that door!" or "I need a medic!" or "Hack that terminal" or "Grab that ammo!" which would play automatically when you bark out orders to your squad. This is 1000x better than having to switch to squadmates individually...leaving your previous marine just standing there.***

A traditional RTS style waypoint system would be nice because it would allow you could command your squadmates to move to and guard certain areas much more rapidly/effectively. This might detract from the gameplay though and would be hard to bind control for it, but it's worth a suggestion

Aside from more complex squad control, there are lots of little AI additions that could be made, like medics automatically healing infestations (if they are lvl 5) and auto-healing you and other AI marines when their health gets critically low. Also using their secondary weapons, grenades, flares, etc...

And I know this was a key design decision..but how about at least one checkpoint per level? Like when you complete an objective for instance.

Anyway thanks for reading all of this, I hope my little ideas will be meaningful for some of you devs.

Last edited by Phil; 29th May 2004 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 29th May 2004, 08:50 PM   #2
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While I didn't read the whole post, your formation suggestion seems very fitting to the game. That way, your squad of marines could run into a room, and instead of being all bunched together to the point where only 1 bot fires, they could already be spread out.

There should also be commands such as "scatter" to aid in single player missions.
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Old 29th May 2004, 10:47 PM   #3
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Yeah a scatter function would be pretty useful when going up against behemoths...would sorta surround him.

Anyway I know it was a long post, but if you havent...read this part because it is the main suggestion I wanted to make:

 Quote:
***Something I think that would be very useful, is if you made usable objects (like doors/terminals/panels/ammo boxes and even other marines) interactive. What I mean by this is if you right click on the object, you can issue a "hack/weld/seal/pick up/heal" command and the nearest marine with the capability to do the order will move there and carry it out. You could get your voice actors back to record "Seal that door!" or "I need a medic!" or "Hack that terminal" or "Grab that ammo!" which would play automatically when you bark out orders to your squad. This is 1000x better than having to switch to squadmates individually...leaving your previous marine just standing there.***
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Old 30th May 2004, 12:03 AM   #4
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What I'd like to see is an "aim in the same direction I am" and an "aim in the opposite direction I am" order.

That, mixed with formations, would make a nearly infalible squad, even on the move.
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Old 30th May 2004, 12:42 AM   #5
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Now that this site is finally back up, here are a few suggestions from the servers I play on:

First I'd just like to say no INCREDIBLY MASSIVE changes to the gameplay are in my list. I'm not going to say something like "OMG I WANT DEATHMATCH VERSION" or anything. So please read on knowing these are suggestions formed after playing the game quite a bit over the last 18 or so hours with many people:

Singleplayer:

*Some way to assign basic formations to your AI squad for when they are moving. Can be frustrating how they all bunch of when ordered to Move Out. A simple set of "line abreast, column (single-file with a rear guard), and spearhead (soldiers are behind and to each side of the team leader covering flanks)" would make a world of difference.

*Ability to select as many or as few soldiers as I want for each map. Meaning removing the limit of 4 for singleplayer campaign maps. Just so those of us who want to bring more or less can do so.

*Unlockables that are shockingly COOL not just mediocre considering the work needed to get them. Examples: More characters to choose from (when I rescue TokenBlackGuy Williams, I want to be able to use him in subsequent missions please). Unlockable weapons and items to add to the arsenal. A true first-person view mode for Spectators if not for players. When I say "first-person", even a full screen size Spectator over-the-shoulder view like the Cam windows show would count.

*Upgrade stars are cool and fun to get, but in sp it seems like there are barely enough to get people upgraded quick enough for the next mission. Another way to put it is the mission difficulty seems to ramp up faster than soldiers can level up to compete with it.

Multiplayer:

*New maps that are larger so servers can have up to 12 players in action which isn't realistic on the current maps due to their smaller size and current objectives. (Would also require at least four new soldiers to select.)

*New maps could have multiple simultaneous objectives requiring players to break up into 2-3 teams of 3-4 players each to accomplish them.

*Breaking down each soldier more uniquely instead of just class type. This is somewhat addressed in the single mission gametype where they have SLIGHTLY different stats like speed and age and such. But make them vary a bit more perhaps. This would give reason to add extra soldiers. Just because you can only take 8 (or eventually 12), doesn't mean you can't have a pool of 16-20 to draw from. This would also help in mp where currently, campaigns have to start over after only 2-3 missions because there are too many important people KIA since there are only 2 of each class in the pool.

*Upgrade stars are cool and fun to get but in mp it's so hard to keep all players alive long enough since the mission difficulty ramps up quickly... perhaps considering making the stars easier to get in mp so soldiers will get more of them.... this is ESPECIALLY important for classes like medic and techie who rarely get any kills in mp if they are doing their jobs right and thus get few if any stars. This really hurts their ability to help out in big firefights later.

*Medic's MedPacks should have 8-10 heals, not five, or the amount of healing that is given for each use should be greater for level 1 medics. This is especially important for multiplayer single missions where they never do get to upgrade their healing ability, that's why I'm putting this under the mp suggestions.

*Nightvision videocamera footage of Wildcat and Faith getting it on... oh wait wrong thread.

All encompassing:

*An additional 5th soldier class perhaps with special skills related to something useful on upcoming larger new maps I mentioned earlier.

*A few more weapons and items, perhaps related to this new class, but also really like to see some sort of triggerable claymore mine added for one example. If UT2k4's flak gun's rounds can ricochet it shouldn't be too hard to have a deployable mine that you aim after deploying like a sentry and then can remotely detonate from a distance sending, say, 50 tiny steel balls that spread out in a cone of hot steel death capable of ricochet'ing up to 5 times.

*Flamethrower that stops spewing hot firey death as soon as you release the trigger. This would cut down on TKs greatly.

*Sentry gun should be able to be undeployed and redeployed later.

*Sentry gun should have either unlimited ammo, a LOT more ammo, or be somehow refillable.

*Ammo bag can REALLY use a second autogun ammo pack, although in keeping with how darn HARD this mod is, I understand why it only has one just to keep people with barely enough ammo in their team and stressed out. I'm still going to request it have a second one though. =p

*Melee attack should be slightly more effective, perhaps by pushing the receiving alien back a bit so they stop biting for a moment until they can close back in. This would help Marines push aliens away in a vent so they can actually get out without dying when they're out of ammo. In movies, space marines always kick aliens back down out of vents, etc.

*A bit more powerful flashlight that is pointed a bit higher and not so much at the ground.

*A flashlight that actually LIGHTS UP the appropriate side of objects that are in its beam, instead of just sort of lighting the ground so you can see the dark shapes of aliens a little better when they cross it. The part of the alien facing the flashlight's light source should become lighter and more visable when it's in the beam. A little tricky to explain, sorry. Currently though it's not a flashlight, just sort of a "ground light".

Last edited by JRock; 30th May 2004 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 30th May 2004, 02:21 AM   #6
«LiMe»
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Well the one suggestion I have would like to be added is to let the hackers/medics get skill points for using there abilities like hacking/healing and I know medics get the halo but thats not enough. In every game I play pub and private with friends Wildcat and Wolfe with there damn autoguns get all the kills and Faith/Clash etc. get nothing thus having to rely on the autoguns shear firepower wich gets boring at times. Adding this would add more teamplay and increase teamwork. For instance keeping the hackers instead of everyone taking hack kit and loading up with massive firepower I don't know about you but I like the tactical standpoint of this game the firepower is for sticky situations lets add more teamplay and interaction not moaning down hordes of bugs!
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Old 30th May 2004, 03:03 AM   #7
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I don't think more soldiers is really a good idea. Too many players spoil things in a game like this and anymore than the current level of players would make things too chaotic. I do like the idea of unlockable characters, say if you rescue someone on the campaign you can use them later (Williams!).

I don't agree with letting something close to a first person view. Why do you need it? It wouldn't add much and the levels are designed for top down so things won't look too good.

If I mentioned something already in the game then send me to Wildcat for punishment but I've only been 3 levels into the campaign.

Gameplay:

* Medics healing an infested player instantly remove the infestation but only adds half the normal health of a heal (I understand instantly removing infestations is a level 5 medic ability but considering how easily parasited you are on every level it would be nicer to have it in all the time).

* Being in range of a scanner marine increases AC autoaim slightly.

Medals:

* I heard there was an akimbo pistol medal in single player. That would be great in multiplayer for medics which take double medkits (Or maybe it is in already, haven't seen it yet though).

Additions:

* Rescuable special characters, such as Williams with 'interesting' skills.

* Special equipment only available at a certain skill level, EG. laser gun for tech marines/different types of sentry gun...

Last edited by Commando; 30th May 2004 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 30th May 2004, 03:06 AM   #8
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Wait, you're not going to ask for a deathmatch? Deathmatch would rock!

Think about it, 3v3, bugs all over the place, actual tactics because of the unrealistic (mostly) damage levels, + medics, mines, sealed doors, etc.!
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Old 30th May 2004, 06:47 AM   #9
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"TokenBlackGuy Williams" - I like it

"New maps could have multiple simultaneous objectives requiring players to break up into 2-3 teams of 3-4 players each to accomplish them." - I thought this too when we were testing. Such maps would be a helluvalotta work though and I can see why none were made because there wouldn't have been enough maps to play. I would really enjoy playing a much more complicated map though. We'll have to see what the fans make.

Sentries, autogun ammo - You're right...it's meant to be hard. Plus you don't run out of ammo unless you solo the whole map with one marine and if you are doing that it should be because the rest of the team is dead and you should be stressed out at that point

Akimbo pistols work in SP or MP campaign games for the character who earns them only.

2k4 lighting engine sucks ergo the flashlight sucks. Blame Atari.

First person mode...having this would make this just another FPS. Not that I've seen any kind of first person view or anything but because the levels are designed for top-down view (i.e. no ceilings) it sucks. You'll have to stick with the headcams.

Formations - they can't really work. A lot of places are too crowded for them so they either don't work or marines get stuck in corners etc. etc. It's just a case of using different tactics in SP than you do in MP.

I think that covers most of it but keep these coming. Some of these suggestions are cool.
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Old 30th May 2004, 06:53 AM   #10
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Id love to see most of these Suggestions coming into play!
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Old 30th May 2004, 08:24 AM   #11
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*Sentry gun should be able to be undeployed and redeployed later.

And

*Sentry gun should have either unlimited ammo, a LOT more ammo, or be somehow refillable.



The sentry gun in aliens had a 1000 round hopper, makes me wonder why similar measures weren't applied here (1000 rounds would keep the swarm busy for a damn long time, or serve as a good incentive not to go that way).

* Rescuable special characters, such as Williams with 'interesting' skills.

Yes, please give us rescuables!!

* Special equipment only available at a certain skill level, EG. laser gun for tech marines/different types of sentry gun...

A laser gun would be a cute idea, I was thinking more along the lines of this:

Special weapons level 3+ and movement 2+ : Gains access to Gauss rifle (rapid fire shockrifle type thingy, good range, autoaim assist, good capacity, reasonable damage per shot)

Explosives level 3+ and health 2+: Gains access to rocklet pistol (mini rocket launcher, low ammo capacity (12 rds per clip), slow recycle time, but the damage, ooohh the damage).

Medic level 2+ and health 2+ : Gains access to PortaDoc (enhanced medpack, kinda like an ammobag so it can spew out a few medkits, a few personal medkits and a few stimpacks)

Tech level 3+ and accuracy 2+ : Gains access to pulse sniper (sniper rifle on steroids, high accuracy, high damage, medium rate of fire)

Then in general -

Movement 2+ and Accuracy 3+ : Gains access to IAF auto-control system (adds full autoaim to normal weapons).

Health 2+ and movement 2+ : Gains access to enhanced armor (halves damage taken from swarm hits, and has a 50% chance to prevent infestations).

All stats 2+ : Gains access to personal shield (can be used once during a misson, confers 90% damage resistance and immunity to infestation for 30 seconds).

Movement 3+ : Gains access to suspensors (weapon and weapon actions no longer affect runspeed).

Health 3+ and Accuracy 3+ : Gains access to Killemall(tm) turret, requires a marine to operate but is redeployable and comes with *oodles* of firepower for those really messy areas

Nova
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Old 30th May 2004, 08:54 AM   #12
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How about an Xcom like weapons platform that follows you around like a marine, but can't be occupied by a player?
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:02 AM   #13
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A pox on lam0r scifi weapons; lets stick to high-velocity lead, hmmm? I'd rather see more flexible loadout options before any more weapons are introduced; there's already every form of killing covered... except hand grenades, which would be waaaaay too dangerous to your mates

The sentry DEFINATELY needs to be repackable; its such a waste to leave one behind. I've never had one run out, so I never want to leave it behind. Reloading would be difficult; the only appropriate ammo is autogun, and who wants to give that up?

I'd actually like to see 'movement' replaced with 'stamina' and base speed off of stamina vs equipment weight... but thats me I like running around with 2 medkits and a pistol.
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:15 AM   #14
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 Originally Posted by Commando:
I don't agree with letting something close to a first person view. Why do you need it?

It'd be a special BONUS feature - if you look closely when you're in Spectator mode you can get little picture-in-picture over-the-shoulder camera views of players still alive. A nice unlockable would be to get that view in full size as a Spectator.
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:18 AM   #15
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 Originally Posted by Chainsaws:
Akimbo pistols work in SP or MP campaign games for the character who earns them only.
.
That's another example of being too cheap with your unlockables considering the effort needed to unlock them. Just make it so that when someone unlocks akimbos, they can then use them for their players in sp or mp any gametype. Too much focus on frugality and frustration with this mod when it comes to unlockables. :p
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:23 AM   #16
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I don't understand why people want to have sniper rifles with this mod? Why would anyone lug a sniper rifle to cramped inside spaces with low to no lights? Just about the worst weapon choice ever.

It's a different thing if there would be wide open spaces, like outside areas, but I don't think this game would work too well with such maps, you can't see too far with the current view.
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:30 AM   #17
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Err... I don't see anyone mentioning sniper rifles :p

Anyway, some of the suggestions sound a bit overpowered.

 Quote:
t'd be a special BONUS feature - if you look closely when you're in Spectator mode you can get little picture-in-picture over-the-shoulder camera views of players still alive. A nice unlockable would be to get that view in full size as a Spectator.
What, so you could make it nearly impossible to play the game without being eaten because you can't see whats going on?
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:33 AM   #18
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if it was a first person it would simply be a new game altogether
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:49 AM   #19
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As far as formations go I think you should be able to apply the following which would work in any of the current maps:-

Single File: Makes (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8). This would stop teh bots bunching up so much and getting stuck in doorways etc.

Man on Point : This would force the bot to follow the rest of teh team but he would be looking backwards the whole time, thus giving you proper rear cover.

Shoot here: Welder dead? then u can command ur bots to shoot a door open.

Back to back: this one would rock you would have the formation of:

..2
1+3 or
..4

1 2 3
4 0 5 (0 = vacant spot)
6 7 8

(sorry for dots but the forum forces left align :])

giving you all round fire and no team killing. Would work best when ur getting bogged down from all sides. Plus medic healing is only a button press away =]
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Old 30th May 2004, 09:56 AM   #20
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Based on my experience with the Natural Selection half life mod, I can say this fairly confidently that there will be no laser guns in this mod, as it doesn't fit the gritty feeling.
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Old 30th May 2004, 10:02 AM   #21
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Id like to see more slots that arent dedicated to weapons.

I think the addition of armour slots could make character load out be very interesting. Consider this:

Head Slot
Body Slot

Head Slot you could chose from these items:
Helmet with Flashlight (Grants light)
Helmet with Aim Assistance (Grants a small amount of autoaiming)
Helmet with Heads Up Display (Gives information about the direction team mates are in etc)
Helmet with armour (Reduces damage taken by a larger amount than the other choices)

Body Slot:
Light body armour (Increases movement speed)
Heavy body armour (Reduces damage taken but slows down movement speed)
Armour with life support (Regens a certain amount of health eg 50% of total health)
Body armour with backpack (Gives you more ammo but also reduces your movement speed)
Camoflage vest (Reduces awareness range of aliens so can be used by someone to scout)

Each equipment gives you different amounts of protection. So the lighter ones will give less protection but bonus skills, while the heavier armour will give you far more protection but less special abilities.

By having armour this would allow us to use the special slot for things like the sentry, hacking tool, welder, stim packs etc, while still having torch like abilities or health. This would give greater use to the less used equipment while also providing more dedicated roles. The main autogunner might load up with heavy armour so he can be the tank etc.
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Old 30th May 2004, 10:05 AM   #22
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I am sure this has been suggested before, but I would absolutely love to see a crimsonland/invasiony type mode. Survive as long as you can against unending waves of aliens, or perhaps ending, but that same idea - less tactics, just mindless fun. The game is really calling for it.

Perhaps you could also have the perks after every certain amount of kills. Perks would also be nice in the normal mode, in addition to boosting your stats.

This game is great, playing with a few of my friends has been one of the funnest gaming experiences I've had in a long time. I hope it continues to grow, release new updates, and get the popularity it deserves.
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Old 30th May 2004, 10:08 AM   #23
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 Originally Posted by Bucchus:
I don't understand why people want to have sniper rifles with this mod? Why would anyone lug a sniper rifle to cramped inside spaces with low to no lights? Just about the worst weapon choice ever.

It's a different thing if there would be wide open spaces, like outside areas, but I don't think this game would work too well with such maps, you can't see too far with the current view.

Not to mention the obvious: You can't zoom out far enough to make it worthwhile anyway. In fact you can't zoom at all.

As far as all that complicated armoring, I think it WOULD be cool to have basic armor and helmet slots and allow a couple armor choices that help in different ways. Perhaps there is an alien that spits or throws or shoots some nasty stuff and one armor type helps against that and another armor type helps more against direct bites/strikes/parasites.


Also this in from someone too lazy to register here:

 Quote:
Instead of having the medpacks "used" like items, turn it into a melee weapon that has the same effect. This would make it incredibly easier to use. If it's possible, they might be able to even make it "spray" so that it can hit more than one person with a shot (that might make the game too easy though).
I think he's on to something with the part about healing covering more than one guy if you're all close enough to the medic.
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Old 30th May 2004, 10:14 AM   #24
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 Originally Posted by Azrael:
Based on my experience with the Natural Selection half life mod, I can say this fairly confidently that there will be no laser guns in this mod, as it doesn't fit the gritty feeling.
However, this is not natural selection.

Natural Selection was based more on starship troopers, while Alien Swarm seems more like Aliens. The two are very different.
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Old 30th May 2004, 10:16 AM   #25
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 Originally Posted by Raglios:
I am sure this has been suggested before, but I would absolutely love to see a crimsonland/invasiony type mode. Survive as long as you can against unending waves of aliens, or perhaps ending, but that same idea - less tactics, just mindless fun. The game is really calling for it.
Oh god, yes. Kind of like the dropship moment already in the game, but taking up the entire map.

I can imagine it now, half the players taking Sentries and setting them up in key tunnels at the start, everyone trying to hold off certain corridors, sealing doors as fast as possible, being forced to fall back when it gets overrun, and eventually just running for your life through vent shafts, praying for the best.

Players would have to have an infinite number of clips though, otherwise it'd be impossible to survive longer than it takes to run out, and that'd take a lot of the competition out of it, if it was a dedicated game mode with high-scores for who survived longest, or who got most kills.

Or this probably would be possible just by making a regular level (the last map of the campaign would fit nice) with infinite spawns, in which you have to survive for say, 10 minutes, after which you either win the map, or have to get to an exit that then opens up.

SOMEBODY MAKE IT HAPPEN!!
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Old 30th May 2004, 10:22 AM   #26
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Aye, the one time infinite spawn would be a GOOD thing!

Yeah, like a timer at the beginning "two and a half minutes to alien invasion!" and everyone runs to weld doors shut, set up and position sentries, and then cover all entry points. Then as the aliens pour in they eventually fall back into a tight semi-circle against a wall, standing to the last man.

That's arousing material right there.
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Old 30th May 2004, 12:05 PM   #27
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 Originally Posted by Bucchus:
I don't understand why people want to have sniper rifles with this mod? Why would anyone lug a sniper rifle to cramped inside spaces with low to no lights? Just about the worst weapon choice ever.

It's a different thing if there would be wide open spaces, like outside areas, but I don't think this game would work too well with such maps, you can't see too far with the current view.
I was the one who suggested it, as a medium to long range weapon for cracking open tougher enemies, not as a true sniper weapon, more a long range accurate single (albeit fast single) shot rifle. Bear in mind such a weapon would have extreme autoaim by default even in bad lighting, making it a valuable support weapon against anything bar fast moving swarms.

Wouldn't be too much help against fast enemies, but against slower ones where high damage per shot might be useful it would be worth it's weight in gold.

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Old 30th May 2004, 12:09 PM   #28
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 Originally Posted by BlackNova:
Wouldn't be too much help against fast enemies, but against slower ones where high damage per shot might be useful it would be worth it's weight in gold.

Nova
How many slow bugs do you know of?
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Old 30th May 2004, 01:20 PM   #29
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 Originally Posted by Master-Builder:
How many slow bugs do you know of?
I'm thinking probably a little further ahead than now, sorta if they expand on the mod somewhat to include different bugs (remember those h00ge cockroach things in Starship Troopers for instance?).

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Old 30th May 2004, 01:27 PM   #30
Vladi321
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Registered: May 2004
Posts: 15
ayd i'm kinda tired of the adults just chasing you around. feel a lot like Aliens VS Predator 2's human missions.
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