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Old 30th Dec 2007, 08:44 PM   #1
immortius
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BlackCat Immortius Journal Entry - 31/12/2007

I have been continuing to work on the code. At first I was focusing on doors and door related systems, and so I've implemented the following:

- Door locking and unlocking with keys
- Thievery style lockpicking by using lockpicks on a door for a length of time
- Door damage, resulting in the door eventually breaking and staying unlocked.
- Door repair with a repair kit.
- Door sound effects

These necessitated implementing a number of basic features, like the ability to use items on a frob target and the ability to hold down the use button to use an item for a period of time.

After that I did a bit of work with Dalai on getting the stealth system working. I'm happy to report that the stealth system is now implemented and players become translucent to invisible in shadows. Still need to make stuff attached to players translucent too, like their weapons.

When working on UnrealScript I try to always keep the following desires in mind: Cheat prevention, low-bandwidth consumption and client-side responsiveness.

Cheat prevention is mostly a matter of ensuring that the server is boss and that anything the client sends is checked for sanity. An example of this is the frob command - the server checks to ensure that what the client is frobbing is within frob range, and not on the other side of the world.

Keeping bandwidth usage low is a matter of ensuring data is only exchanged where necessary and making sure that data is kept to a reasonable size. Avoiding string replication where possible is good. Having information baked within a map so clients always have it is good too.

Client-side responsiveness is a bit of illusion, but is generally achieved by having the client assume something will work and play sounds and display effects immediately rather than waiting for a message to be received by the server and the result to be returned. An example is having lockpicks start making their noise immediately on the client, rather than waiting for the server to create the lockpicking noise.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 11:46 PM   #2
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 Originally Posted by immortius: ( link to post ) 
After that I did a bit of work with Dalai on getting the stealth system working. I'm happy to report that the stealth system is now implemented and players become translucent to invisible in shadows. Still need to make stuff attached to players translucent too, like their weapons.
yay your my hero lol - thx for keeping posted ><
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 01:52 PM   #3
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How abouteeking through locks, and stealth opening? (No sound)
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 04:41 PM   #4
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oO? And stealth death, and stealth jump, stealth walk on light places.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 12:31 AM   #5
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At the moment I'm trying to focus on a broad range of basic functionality rather than getting to deep into a single area. Those are interesting ideas though.

For stealth opening - what exactly did you have in mind? Thieves always opening doors silently, some sort of item to make a door silent permanently, an option to open a door silently at some cost like slow opening? Or something else?

At any rate, the balance and gameplay implications would need to be considered.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 02:44 AM   #6
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There was a game (Soldier Of Fortune 2, strangely enough) that had a system where if you had 'walk' pressed when opening a door, it opened slowly, and if you where running the door flew open.

Maybe something like that?

Peeking through doors would be extremely useful. You could do like a scouting orb view from the middle of the door or something.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 03:06 AM   #7
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btw was that not in thief 1, looks throught doors?
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 03:11 AM   #8
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No it wasn't. Eavesdropping was only introduced in Thief 2 if I remember correctly.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 03:38 AM   #9
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anyway im glad that doors in NB from nw, are not just to geting closed, and opened only.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 06:43 AM   #10
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 Originally Posted by FixXxeR: ( link to post ) 
There was a game (Soldier Of Fortune 2, strangely enough) that had a system where if you had 'walk' pressed when opening a door, it opened slowly, and if you where running the door flew open.

Maybe something like that?
To further expand.. perhaps there can be a general "creep modifier" button that does everything a bit "quieter" while held. This of course shouldn't be without penalty.. so assume quieter to mean slower.

I guess some potential applications could be:
- Pull bow back slower
- Slow door open
- Slow/quiet lock picking
- Slow walking/crouch walking
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 06:59 AM   #11
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 Originally Posted by -KewlAzMe-: ( link to post ) 
To further expand.. perhaps there can be a general "creep modifier" button that does everything a bit "quieter" while held. This of course shouldn't be without penalty.. so assume quieter to mean slower.

I guess some potential applications could be:
- Pull bow back slower
- Slow door open
- Slow/quiet lock picking
- Slow walking/crouch walking
That was going to be my reply!

You see, when running from guards your motions/actions are generally loud - such as slamming doors and running. On the other hand sneaking and general creeping around could be context sensitive - as in holding stealth/creep button down while performing actions. (Or toggle)

Also, have you thought about including the perks system from COD 4 - or something like it? Doing so may add depth/progression to thievery ut3, which, to be honest I feel it needs. The sense of progression would be highly rewarding. (Loot gained buys things)

Also, I suggest you guys re-evaluate much of the gameplay, example: guards having radar, motion detection or other such mechanics. Recently Thievery has become a little frustrating, waiting for matches to end ruins the fun! speed games up - keep thieves on the move, as skill should be based on fast stealth like reactions, not sitting in a shadow for 25 minuets.

Anyway best of luck.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 08:39 AM   #12
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Keep Guards busy is an important thing too. The idea of Guard Objectives is on the right path, but think of things that they could do that would also force the thieves to speed up.

For example, think of Penumbra... there is a generator, but you need to first find gas for it. But you can't add gas until you find the gas hose. Then you need to find the switch to turn it on. Imagine the main Penumbra player is the Guard Team. Now that the generator is turned on, new lights come on around the map, offering the thieves less shadows so they have to move quick.

This is a passive objective but more helpful than throwing a dead body into a grave.

Some other ideas (all of which are patent pending):

- Guards can bring cement blocks to a hole in the property wall to fix the hole. Then you need to find the mortar and tools to put it together. All of the above materials could be randomly spawned around the map. The end result will be that thieves have to find another, presumably more difficult, way out.

- The Security system is old and unkempt. Find the parts of the Watcher heads and put them together with the tools. Then find the switch to the main security power and turn the alarms on. Now there is better monitoring for guards and thieves need to be more careful

- Sgt Flavio and his squad look more like Robin Hood's drunken Merry Men. Find the right brew of potions to sober them up and make them more useful at guarding and patrolling. This means the thieves will have to watch carefully for more guards.


All of the above:
A) Keep thieves moving
B) Keep Guards busy
C) Are passive and not required, but helpful if completed.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 01:15 PM   #13
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You know, the "creep modifier" is exactly like Assassin's Creed. Everything you do is "low profile" until you hold the right trigger which puts you in "high profile" mode, where "gentle push" turns to "tackle", etc.

It's actually a great way to do this, and you effectively get two full sets of actions from the same buttons, and as long as it stays intuitive, it's not confusing either.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 07:35 PM   #14
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Guards with their own objectives? Never much liked this idea...
Simple put guards should hunt down thieves constantly, thats their objective - not running around the map performing actions that need not be done.

Guards need motion trackers or something like it.

Also, how about rewards, for example: Kill a thief 50 loot, capture a thief via a Guard KO 300 loot. Use loot to buy new items and weapons.

Thoughts?
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 07:36 PM   #15
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greetings Counter Strike i would say.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 08:36 PM   #16
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 Originally Posted by Gullonefox: ( link to post ) 
Guards with their own objectives? Never much liked this idea...
Simple put guards should hunt down thieves constantly, thats their objective - not running around the map performing actions that need not be done.

Guards need motion trackers or something like it.

Also, how about rewards, for example: Kill a thief 50 loot, capture a thief via a Guard KO 300 loot. Use loot to buy new items and weapons.

Thoughts?
Rewards and extra tools might be ok.. Balance is questionable tho.

And I agree that Guards should be on the look out for thieves at all times, but in TUT it can very boring, especially with Ghosters who really know the map. The point of the Guard Objectives is that they are not needed to win, but will assist guards in finding thieves easier. So by doing the objectives, they are looking for thieves even more than just wandering around shadow slashing.

It's not like I said they should have an objective to paint the baby's room while bored.

I did think about a Thiefmatch style radar system mutator for TUT Guards.. but it might be a bit overpowered if the guard starts firespamming his feet when his radar lights up. But it might be a good place to try it out to work out balance issues with your motion tracking idea.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 10:30 PM   #17
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dynamic objectives for guards and thieves? Could help against camping and make game mre interresting, like find and steal evidence, limit ~20 minutes, after time pases, new objective, find lyre, somewhere at another end of the map. And add at every map, so many objectives as possable, so guards cant protect all objectives at same time, and some will be unguarded. Think it should make game more interresting, then do same objectives everytime like Gerome, every 1 know what to guard, and thieves having no other ways to win, then steal that evi.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 10:57 PM   #18
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 Originally Posted by )!(Uruk-Hai)!(: ( link to post ) 
dynamic objectives for guards and thieves? Could help against camping and make game mre interresting, like find and steal evidence, limit ~20 minutes, after time pases, new objective, find lyre, somewhere at another end of the map. And add at every map, so many objectives as possable, so guards cant protect all objectives at same time, and some will be unguarded. Think it should make game more interresting, then do same objectives everytime like Gerome, every 1 know what to guard, and thieves having no other ways to win, then steal that evi.
Well I'll be honest, this might be the first smart thing you've said

Maybe under different circumstances... perhaps if a main objective gets destroyed. Kinda like Thief 2, Sheriff's Estate, where you have to question the Sheriff, but then find out he's dead so your objective changes. Perhaps something like read Gerome's Diary.. but when you get to the room, dynamically it may or may not be there that day, implying that he may have taken in with him that day, so instead you have to do something else... or it may be there and you have to read it.
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Old 3rd Jan 2008, 11:40 PM   #19
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yes thx, thats why i mean too, its more realistic when the evidence is in other room one day. Or u need find it, u dont rly know where it is, maybe thats why many ppl like to play skelleton head, cuz thieves having more chances to win by obj, when the guards didnt allready spoted the map. Thats very important feature for a multiplayer game imo, cuz u know, the maps will be played again, and again, and its nice to play same map, and find out that the map, or evidence aren't allways at same place.
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 02:21 AM   #20
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It would be nice if there was a map/evi(basically a scroll) in each of the spawn places, but these would be fake, neither the thieves, nor the guards would know which one is real until they get stolen. I think somebody had this idea before.
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 08:37 AM   #21
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Good to see u again FRH...

Another thought could be objectives based on other objectives. Like first thieves must find a map... which could be in any number of locations and like FRH said, multiple scrolls could be laying around and the thieves have to search each of them to find it.

Then the map could be dynamic and show a trail to the loot. Sometimes the map might show the loot to the north, other times it might show it to the south, etc.
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 10:31 AM   #22
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Excellent idea KAM.

Motion trackers don't sound right, maybe there could be dogs, either caged or freelancing, or something of that sort, even if they were to be uncontrollable by players, they could help find hidden taffers.
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 11:14 AM   #23
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i like dags!
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 01:13 PM   #24
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all drugs i say...
Btw will be there some hit effects like when u fall from high, u got para for few sec cuz of injure, or when some 1 on very low health he is very slowly.

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Old 11th Jan 2008, 05:42 PM   #25
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Objectives and whatnot fall under mapmaking...Maybe its time to renew some of the 'suggestion' threads.
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