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Old 7th Feb 2014, 05:43 AM   #31
Maxim Pishnyak
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Trap, you are the MAN.

 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
VERY long-dead guild.
Do you know guild that is not like that?

And Indus, my town is 300 km NE from Kiev. Too close to capital area and IP detection couldn't say preciously my location, eh?

Back to topic.

 Originally Posted by FatRatHead: ( link to post ) 
Anyway, back on topic. The idea of this map was to make it sorta ghostable in low player games.
Fully support you in this! It's very rare occasion to see such words on boards said by mapper.

What inventory items could be acceptable for ghoster?

For example I don't use crack arrows cos they are against idea of ghosting.

Also I don't use invis cos it's simply hack the reality not like another potions.
I could use invis IF map could provide it, that's all. But not always I able to remember that I found this pot.
Invisibility could be released in game environment in less universal form btw.
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 06:26 AM   #32
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 Originally Posted by Maxim Pishnyak: ( link to post ) 
What inventory items could be acceptable for ghoster?
Health potions, Cheese and nothing else..
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 04:52 PM   #33
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
Health potions, Cheese and nothing else..
Why would a ghoster need healing items?

Lockpicks and nothing else is all a ghoster should need (not even using provided starting arrows or blackjack). I used to play that way in the Coop game mode when ghosting, although it is probably not possible in real TvG.
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Old 7th Feb 2014, 07:42 PM   #34
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 Originally Posted by Sneaky: ( link to post ) 
Why would a ghoster need healing items?

Lockpicks and nothing else is all a ghoster should need (not even using provided starting arrows or blackjack). I used to play that way in the Coop game mode when ghosting, although it is probably not possible in real TvG.
for when you jump off rooftops by mistake thinking you have catfall. lock-picks are a nono for a ghoster surely, if you unlock a door then you have left evidence you have been there iirc all official maps are possible without the need for lockpicks, i did make a set of videos along time ago of completing the maps without using any equipment (expect vine) and without been detected, best way to play coop..

there is an unreleased gametype called training in thievery where you start out with no equipment and no loot to spend (when i say unreleased, its there but you need to tweak your ini file iirc)
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Old 8th Feb 2014, 07:39 AM   #35
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 Originally Posted by Maxim Pishnyak: ( link to post ) 
Do you know guild that is not like that?
Wraiths were functionally dead prior to TurfWars 1. That was about 11 years ago.
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Old 8th Feb 2014, 09:20 AM   #36
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
for when you jump off rooftops by mistake thinking you have catfall. lock-picks are a nono for a ghoster surely, if you unlock a door then you have left evidence you have been there
Fair point. I guess you'd have enough loot to win the map but there could be some unaccessable loot without lockpicks if you were trying to get all loot on the map.

 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
there is an unreleased gametype called training in thievery where you start out with no equipment and no loot to spend (when i say unreleased, its there but you need to tweak your ini file iirc)
I don't recall that game mode. That would be excellent if it could be combined with Coop. I assume the training mode is single player only? If training mode was Coop and running on a server with Genius AI and a fairly short game time that would be a very fun challenge.
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Old 11th Feb 2014, 11:34 AM   #37
Maxim Pishnyak
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 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
Wraiths were functionally dead prior to TurfWars 1. That was about 11 years ago.
I think 9 years ago Dragon and Ghostly were still in Wraiths. Also in October 2005 you challenged MG/WB.
 Originally Posted by MadGerbil: ( link to post ) 
Shug challenged us to a match.
It was at least one match between thievery guilds in 2006. And one match in 2007 without published result? I'm not sure about 2007 and later years. Could it be that 2006 was the last year in the guilds era?

Wraith and RLF were active on BCG, on their guild private server and on their guild forum still in 2006. BTW it was the only guild forum that was publicly accessible. And still assessable through Internet Web Archive http://www.archive.org.

Another guilds could be functional after 2006 year, but their forums remained private. Obviously guilds legacy (guild description, tactics and traditions and even roasters) became forbidden after death of their forums/sites.
 Originally Posted by WTaFa: ( link to post ) 
 Originally Posted by Machine:
Sadly those threads and plans were on an old PC I sold a few years ago after wiping the drive so there is no chance of getting them back. Sorry. Mach.
 Originally Posted by Omega:
You could ask mOdEtWo & Nachimir about their stuff, perhaps they made a local copy.
I only have a bare template from the site but it's not filled with any actual information.
 Originally Posted by Nachimir:
I'm afraid I don't have anything saved from back then.
 Originally Posted by Chainsaws:
Hey, I'm afraid I don't have anything any more.
 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
I don't really have the stuff left over from my TUT days. Check with the other members of the board here who are still active from TUT's heyday.
 Originally Posted by Grank:
The old Crackaz site doesn't exist anymore. The forum that is up now doesn't have any of the old threads. That is unfortunate since it would be nice to take a trip down memory lane now.
There is a place on the tomb stones for roasters only?



Back to topic.

 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
Health potions, Cheese and nothing else..
FRH idea was to remove red cursor and encourage ghosting by doing so. Attractive idea I could say. For gameplay. But by doing so stacking should be forbidden. Am I the only one who missed this the most glorious guard tactic?

Another idea were no chest and increased amount of flares and bolts. More shadows for ghosters. But I'm not sure that this will be newbie friendly though.
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Old 11th Feb 2014, 12:26 PM   #38
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 Originally Posted by Sneaky: ( link to post ) 
That would be excellent if it could be combined with Coop. I assume the training mode is single player only? If training mode was Coop and running on a server with Genius AI and a fairly short game time that would be a very fun challenge.
its just a gametype, so should be possible on multi, no idea how the teams work, been awhile since i looked at it.. shall have a peak when i can.

 Originally Posted by Maxim Pishnyak: ( link to post ) 
guild stuff snip --
doesnt change the fact you really should not be using the wraith tag.. its somewhat rude to use a tag from a clan thats no more, would be far more respectful to choose a related name and say you follow in their footsteps, if thats truely the reason you wanted to be a wraith member..

 Originally Posted by Maxim Pishnyak: ( link to post ) 
FRH idea was to remove red cursor and encourage ghosting by doing so. Attractive idea I could say. For gameplay. But by doing so stacking should be forbidden. Am I the only one who missed this the most glorious guard tactic?

Another idea were no chest and increased amount of flares and bolts. More shadows for ghosters. But I'm not sure that this will be newbie friendly though.
removeing the red cursor doesnt encourage ghosting in any way, i think you will find fat's point on that was to try and prevent chest peaking. chest and flares is debatable depending on points of view and players envolved..
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Old 12th Feb 2014, 02:24 AM   #39
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This is now wildly off topic, but hopefully people are interested in enough in some thievery history not to overly mind.

I was actually incorrect about them dying prior to TWI, they played a match against a middling FAG team (and only the thief leg, as it was an RLF/Wraiths mixteam).

Dragon was never in the team; he played with a bunch of schoolfriends in AYL and ultimately left with Gabriel and Chalrif (and, surprisingly, Cliff) for TCO once they became more ambitious. Ghostly (Apparition, I assume?) played in some early guilds like Legend but was never a Wraith to my knowledge.

The original lineup was Bill, Tamias (an alias), Shadowthief and TheMachine. I'm still not sure who Tamias was because we never crossed paths in-game.

At the time, ghosting was the flavour of the month and people were clamouring for that title because it was a prestigious playstyle. Most players had come from Thief, and it was still fresh in mind. The Shadow Guild and Wraiths had status because of it.

Mach left directly prior to TurfWars I when TuF's secret roster was exposed, and he was the best player on the roster. It's unsurprising really, playing him as a ghost in only thief rounds would have been a grotesque waste of firepower in competitive games.

It's impossible that they played a proper match as Wraiths after 2005 because Shadowthief and Tamias disappeared prior to 2004 and were never heard of again. Bill himself played ToD III on the Shanka Shadows roster, but that's the only tournament he was involved in aside from administrating the controversial TurfWars III.

By the time people got serious it was largely impractical to play a ghosting style in matches. Fine and well slapping around mediocre players in 2003, much more difficult to face tough guards with match experience two years later. Even in that match against FAG they were going to have to get a camped body out of an asylum cell without attacking guards, but a server crash got them off the hook and they won on the return leg by rushing early.

We may have challenged them after 2005 (we basically challenged everybody that could field a team) but the Wraiths roster was long-dead, and it was MG and Bill playing private pickup games on their own server. I wouldn't call that an active guild.

If Bill handed you the reigns, post the conversation you guys had. It'll be easy to spot if it was him.

I'd recommend starting your own team and name though, as you'll have a hard enough time finding players without them feeling uncomfortable about reusing a very old name.
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Old 12th Feb 2014, 10:42 AM   #40
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Hear hear Shug.
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Old 14th Feb 2014, 07:17 PM   #41
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 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
doesnt change the fact you really should not be using the wraith tag..
I shouldn't use tag after conversations that I had with guild founder?
 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
Dragon was never in the team
Ghostly (Apparition, I assume?) played in some early guilds like Legend but was never a Wraith to my knowledge.
It's impossible that they played a proper match as Wraiths after 2005.
We may have challenged them after 2005, but the Wraiths roster was long-dead.
30th Oct 2005:
 Originally Posted by WildBill: ( link to post ) 
The Wraith's roster is currently me, Tamias, Ghostly, and Dragon.
Not bad for a guild in last but one year of the guilds epoch.

 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
By the time people got serious it was largely impractical to play a ghosting style in matches. Fine and well slapping around mediocre players in 2003, much more difficult to face tough guards with match experience two years later.
 Originally Posted by Rodent: ( link to post ) 
and there there goes your[WildBill] ghosting ideals down the drain......
 Originally Posted by WildBill: ( link to post ) 
As I said, there are other and better ways to do it. If I told them to everyone, they wouldn't be quite as effective, I was merely giving an example that I figured was somewhat common.

 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
it was MG and Bill playing private pickup games on their own server. I wouldn't call that an active guild.
You could call that how you want. Having private server to what you or any other mocker can't join doesn't support your statement by any means.

 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
If Bill handed you the reigns, post the conversation you guys had.
He doesn't respond last times. Without his permission I wouldn't post anything from ours conversations.

 Originally Posted by Shug: ( link to post ) 
I'd recommend starting your own team and name though, as you'll have a hard enough time finding players without them feeling uncomfortable about reusing a very old name.
I already feel uncomfortable cos after 2006 year I can't spot here any alive Thievery guild except yours. You played with your teammates against unorganized public crowds in the times of 1.6. Was it real challenge for your guild?

And back to topic
 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
removeing the red cursor doesnt encourage ghosting in any way, i think you will find fat's point on that was to try and prevent chest peaking.
You're right with preventing peaking, still I can't see why you disagree that removing cursor can't support ghosting somehow.
 Originally Posted by Keggie: ( link to post ) 
chest and flares is debatable depending on points of view and players envolved..
In defense of chest farming?
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Old 15th Feb 2014, 01:07 AM   #42
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Don't be absurd. If he's happy to have your name in the guild he's happy to have his confirmation spread publicly too.

I don't know where you're trying to head with the rest of your rebuttal. Dragon might have lent his name to Bill briefly in '05 (and I don't know if he even loaded the game during that period) but that does not a team make; it simply meant TuF was inactive at the time. They didn't even play pub games together, which makes them far less of an official lineup than any of my ToD teams.

Our competition or lack thereof in later years has nothing to do with whether you should be using the Wraith tag.

Side note: the conversation between Rodent and Bill is simply that it isn't ghosting to crack or otherwise interfere with the guarding side. It's illustrative of the fact that ghosting is usually downright impossible in official matches depending on the map.
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Old 22nd Feb 2014, 12:55 AM   #43
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How the hell do you remember all this shit Shug?
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Old 22nd Feb 2014, 03:29 AM   #44
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I have everything, including those nudes you sent rodent
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Old 7th Mar 2014, 11:53 PM   #45
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Glad to hear they ended up where they belong.
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