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Old 6th May 2005, 06:38 AM   #91
BrokenArts
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You can't tell me things have not changed when so many games I have witnessed in the past, have turned into a DM fest. Objectives? What are those? I am not the only one that shares that sentiment.
But games change over time don't they. Nough said, I don't play anymore, say what you will. Things have changed in Thievery.
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Old 6th May 2005, 07:24 AM   #92
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 Originally Posted by TafferBoy:
The 'good old days' before people knew the tricks, like back in 1.2, it was a KO fest with no AI-wakeups and then in 1.3 it became a guard-fest with improved AI and wakeups. Its many of the thief 'tricks'/'exploits' that re-balanced the game and made it possible to win from nearly any position, which is why I like this game so much.
Get with the times yo
No, more like the good old days of 1.0 and even 1.1, when everyones reaction to the game was "Whoah! Cool!" and most everyone would share new aspects of the game or any given map with whoever was there at the time.

 Originally Posted by TafferBoy:
I also find it a bit weird that we have all these ex-players (or those who rarely play anymore), commenting on what thievery is like at the moment. Makes the claims less persuasive to me because of that.
I'm not. I'm commenting on what ingame play was like at the time I left, and on what I've seen happen out of game since. It's not merely a sense of nostalgia (or even of TH-Nostalgia, for that matter - ).
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Old 6th May 2005, 07:47 AM   #93
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
I'm not. I'm commenting on what ingame play was like at the time I left, and on what I've seen happen out of game since. It's not merely a sense of nostalgia (or even of TH-Nostalgia, for that matter - ).
Strange that you felt compelled to reply when it wasn't necessarily aimed at you, Rat

Anyway BA, things apparently go in cycles... I recall outrage against DMing back before I even played (Gladius brought that up already), the complaining on the forums kicked back up again to a peak about 4 - 6 months ago, and there's an even balance on the servers these days in my eyes. Part of the reason DMing came back into fashion was that general guarding standard improved. But then again, the Mockers are basically a team of objectives thieves these days... contrast that with a year or two back, when we were much maligned as DMers (when it was such a dirty word, too). Trust me, we know what objectives are. And so do most of the pub players I see, because it takes some skillful play and tight teamwork to down an entire guarding side - and most people don't bother with the high level stuff in pub.
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Old 6th May 2005, 07:51 AM   #94
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 Originally Posted by BrokenArts:
You can't tell me things have not changed when so many games I have witnessed in the past, have turned into a DM fest. Objectives? What are those? I am not the only one that shares that sentiment.
But games change over time don't they. Nough said, I don't play anymore, say what you will. Things have changed in Thievery.
Lets hope the guards get armour (resistance to swords + arrows) in 1.5...
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Old 6th May 2005, 07:55 AM   #95
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Well Shug, maybe I will have to check things out again aye. DM makes the game go so fast, more of a challenge in working on the objectives. GG.
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Old 6th May 2005, 09:16 AM   #96
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Thievery = Raped of all gameplay?

Discuss.
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Old 6th May 2005, 02:08 PM   #97
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 Originally Posted by FixXxeR:
Thievery = Raped of all gameplay?

Discuss.

I disagree. Thievery has retained its gameplay in that the game itself has not changed. The script is the same and will be the same until `.5, and even then itwill still be somewhat the same.

However, Thievery has been raped of its appeal. private servers are still fun, as it's old players that every likes being with. In public games nowadays, I hardly see any teamwork.Unfortunately, noone likes me enough to let me in private servers.
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Old 6th May 2005, 08:48 PM   #98
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That's a lot more dramatic than I would have expected from a guy like you, Rad.
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Old 6th May 2005, 08:58 PM   #99
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 Originally Posted by BrokenArts:
You can't tell me things have not changed when so many games I have witnessed in the past, have turned into a DM fest. Objectives? What are those? I am not the only one that shares that sentiment.
But games change over time don't they. Nough said, I don't play anymore, say what you will. Things have changed in Thievery.
That's the point I was trying to make. BA and I feel very similar when it comes to Thievery.
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Old 6th May 2005, 09:07 PM   #100
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 Originally Posted by Shug:
That's a lot more dramatic than I would have expected from a guy like you, Rad.
If its the truth, it's the truth, eh?

I don't reall play either, but I did today, and discovered that most of this thread is, indded, true. The game hasn't gone downhill, but most of its players have.
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Old 6th May 2005, 10:37 PM   #101
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All of this stuff depends WHO YOU PLAY WITH!!! Some players use teamwork, others don't, this is the case and has always been the case. You can't play for one day and then go "yes, thievery is worse, there is no teamwork".
There is significantly less dm'ing in the game these days, because instead of bitching about dm'ing and bad-mouthing those that did it, (as was the case in the past), the community swung around and dm'ing was accepted. This dosen't mean that because its deemed 'ok' that there is no such thing as objectives anymore. Because, as Shug pointed out, since people stopped Vilifying DM'ing and focused on countering it, the quality of guarding has increased. I remember the 'good old days' where players were metaphorically spat at for DM'ing or indeed having a high ping, 'abusing lag', being in a 'DM guild' or whatever. However, I believe that the 'acceptance of DM'ing' has got rid of most of this and made for a friendlier game/community.

If you don't like how the game is now, then by all means don't play it.
But please don't come in here and have 'a go' at the people that still play and enjoy the game. Its like saying, 'the game sucks now, I can't believe the idiots that still play it.'

Last edited by TafferBoy; 7th May 2005 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 6th May 2005, 11:48 PM   #102
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The reason why I even debated these things here was because I find it rather "interesting" that people who haven't so much as touched a public server in the last 6 months presume to tell me how I most likely play, how I work as part of a team, what the general game climate is... and so on. WOW DUDEZ TURFWARS III COLLAPSED THIEVERY MUST BE TEH SUX

Even Rad doesn't play as much as he used to, and god knows who he plays with because my teams usually have a general level of co-ordination, and that's even when I play without Mockers or other guildsmen.

So anyway Rad, how do you know what private servers are like when nobody invites you? Oh, wait... you probably wouldn't.
Those are the kind of vague arguments and ideas we're up against here, people. Open your eyes.

I really can't do anything but take an opinion as hot air unless you actually have some kind of recent grounding to make a statement on this game.
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Old 7th May 2005, 12:59 AM   #103
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
That Grank, he's a scoundrel, a scallawag, and an all around bad person.
Hey!
I resemble that!


Sounds funnier when you say it. Actually, thats the only time it "sounds" at all.
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Old 7th May 2005, 08:21 AM   #104
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I have to agree with Shug and Glad. I agree with them not just because they are my guildmates and I respect their opinions, but more that we are one of the active guilds playing public games. So we do know the state of play, and while it may not satisfy all, private games can meet the "TUT" needs of those who have "left" the game (or at least don't play pub games any more). What we should realise is that the thing that brought us all together in the first place (Thievery) is still here and most of us still enjoy playing it, whether on pub games, private, tournaments, solo (gasp), coop (errr...), whether once a month or every day (ahem Indus...). Like many things a community likes, often argument will arise. But Rad said the game has not gone down hill, but some players have...well, one cannot exist without the other. I would rather say that the game has gone downhill only when those players who have gone downhill are playing it. And some of those we have mangaged to get rid of. No mean feat. It could be worse.
A unique game will bring togehter a unique community and both unique glories and unique problems. Many of which we have discussed (or imagined...) and most of which we have overcome...or at least left behind by embracing what the game means to us and how best to play it (which may involve the choice of not playing at all). As the venerable Laughing Rat said well, in so many words) to Citizen E, it's only really a game...so no need to get too worked up..

THE END
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Old 7th May 2005, 11:34 AM   #105
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 Originally Posted by Shug:
The reason why I even debated these things here was because I find it rather "interesting" that people who haven't so much as touched a public server in the last 6 months presume to tell me how I most likely play, how I work as part of a team, what the general game climate is... and so on.
For the record, Shug, not only have I touched a public Thievery server in the past six months, I've touched one within the past 6 days. I didn't see anything different than 6 months ago, or a year ago.

[QUOTE=Shug]WOW DUDEZ TURFWARS III COLLAPSED THIEVERY MUST BE TEH SUX/quote]
This is really an unfair comment in the context in which it's presented. I don't really think anyone here thinks that because TWIII fell apart, that makes Thievery a bad game, or the community awful. I think most people (and posts in this thread seem to support this idea) feel that the reasons TWIII fell apart are simply a highlighting of what they see as being wrong in the game and community overall.

 Originally Posted by Grank:
Hey!
I resemble that!
Yes, you do.

 Originally Posted by Grank:
Sounds funnier when you say it.
No, not really.

I forgot, another reason I object to being lumped in with the likes of Grank is that he thinks he's funny, but really he isn't.



[EDIT] - in response to Mono's post just above

An interesting thought occurred reading your post. Could it be that your experiences, as well as Shug's, Glad's, and others who've stated they see no problem in current gameplay stem from the fact that you have a number of active players from your team? Perhaps what happens is you're on often enough with teammates, who you know, like, respect, and enjoy playing with, that your esperience playing differes significantly from other players'?
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Old 7th May 2005, 03:07 PM   #106
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Thats the basic idea behind using a teamspeak server with myself, mach, phae, chains, fixxxer (not at present nm) etc etc

One or two people that can irritate, are not as bad when you have 2, 3 or even 4 good people/friends to play with at your side/together.
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Old 7th May 2005, 07:32 PM   #107
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I think thats its likely to be the case LR, because the people in our active guild generally play from the same timezone. But there are also plenty of players around that I enjoy playing with/respect that aren't in my guild grouping.
There is no question for me that being in a guild is a large part of what makes the game enjoyable.
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Old 7th May 2005, 09:55 PM   #108
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 Originally Posted by Shug:
So anyway Rad, how do you know what private servers are like when nobody invites you? Oh, wait... you probably wouldn't.
Those are the kind of vague arguments and ideas we're up against here, people. Open your eyes.
actually it's basing off the recent experience wit hthe TurfWars matches I played in. Relatively private servers, you might say. That lack of respect is what i get everywhere, and why i find playing difficult. Onbce upon a time poeple cared about what I'd say, but only a few people would anymore. Go ahead. make a joke on this post too.
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Old 8th May 2005, 02:16 AM   #109
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Mate, it wasn't a joke - it was a pretty clear statement of fact. Either way I can't comment on you getting "respect" or not - but if you get bagged, it must be when I'm not around. Apparently Cliff left because he wasn't "respected" anymore, too. What does that even mean?

 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
This is really an unfair comment in the context in which it's presented. I don't really think anyone here thinks that because TWIII fell apart, that makes Thievery a bad game, or the community awful. I think most people (and posts in this thread seem to support this idea) feel that the reasons TWIII fell apart are simply a highlighting of what they see as being wrong in the game and community overall.
From my point of view, it's more a golden opportunity for people who nurse various reasons for leaving the game to take a good kick at the current players of the game. Two teams colluding in a tournament does not equal what most people seem to think.

As Gladius said, it's not just my guildmates I respect and enjoy playing against. And if you did join a server in the last week, I still submit that spending a few hours (if you even did that) doesn't really compare to playing this game as frequently as the people who are arguing in the favour of the community at large.

A snapshot of the top 10 players (in terms of time played) of Thievery as at 6 May according to csports.net:
1 .:m.rodent:.
2 Industrialism-=:ToB:=-
3 Venus
4 FatRatHead_CrkZ
5 .:m.shug:.
6 Industrialism-=:ToB:
7 Bandit[PL]
8 Cuba
9 Thief13x
10 .:m.gladius:.

That pretty clearly says we know the game as well as anyone.
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Old 8th May 2005, 04:47 AM   #110
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
An interesting thought occurred reading your post. Could it be that your experiences, as well as Shug's, Glad's, and others who've stated they see no problem in current gameplay stem from the fact that you have a number of active players from your team? Perhaps what happens is you're on often enough with teammates, who you know, like, respect, and enjoy playing with, that your esperience playing differes significantly from other players'?
I can definitely agree with that in part, but also with Glad's post above - there are many other players I enjoy playing with/against. Sure, constant DM fests may annoy me sometimes, but usually on nights when my (already limited) skill is a bit dull due to tiredness (etc). Then again, gettin my butt kicked by good thief teams winning by obs all the time can also annoy me, but I get over it pretty quickly. After all, tis but a game...
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Old 8th May 2005, 09:16 AM   #111
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Yes, shug, I must admit that I've been clocking in more than 30 hours a week at work (close to the maximum) and 35 of school, mostly because I'm saving money for college, which leaves little time for anything else. My days off I'm hitting the servers and... nobody around, or poeple who laugh at me. Really annoying, and a fairly big turn-off.
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Old 8th May 2005, 05:35 PM   #112
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Aww my 'Ranking' dropped, I blame Guild Wars.
Its funny how indus comes in twice with his bugged name thats too long.
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Old 8th May 2005, 10:10 PM   #113
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 Originally Posted by Shug:
From my point of view, it's more a golden opportunity for people who nurse various reasons for leaving the game to take a good kick at the current players of the game. Two teams colluding in a tournament does not equal what most people seem to think.
You know as well as I do that that's not the limit of it.

 Originally Posted by Shug:
And if you did join a server in the last week, I still submit that spending a few hours (if you even did that) doesn't really compare to playing this game as frequently as the people who are arguing in the favour of the community at large.
Several hours over several nights, and more than just the last couple weeks. Last couple months, actually. I'd say it's been more than a fair snapshot.
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Old 8th May 2005, 10:35 PM   #114
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I'm lost in all this ranting... Can someone clarify this for me: What was the actual offense?

a) Two guilds plotting together to wipe out a third one?
b) Members of one guild playing as members of another guild?
c) Something else?

Of course (a) should be totally acceptable as far as I can see, but I seriously dunno what's going on.
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Old 8th May 2005, 11:06 PM   #115
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 Originally Posted by DeepQantas:
I'm lost in all this ranting... Can someone clarify this for me: What was the actual offense?

a) Two guilds plotting together to wipe out a third one?
b) Members of one guild playing as members of another guild?
c) Something else?

Of course (a) should be totally acceptable as far as I can see, but I seriously dunno what's going on.
The correct answer is B. The catalyst for all this was TheMachine aliasing as one of the Forsaken, when he was on the Mutant team. Both those teams were plotting together, and that's okay -- although the way it was done was in quite poor form. Eventually the goal of their conspiracy changed from simply defeating the Mockers to breaking the tournament itself, though.

 Originally Posted by PhaeThorn in the Forsaken and Mutants private plotting thread:
Withdraw on the day the new challenges are being made. There won't be time to get all the maps to the other teams and basicly it messes the whole time schedule up because the remaining teams cannot attack eachother, for they are not connected. GG tournament.
With that kind of attitude among half the teams in the tournament, there's really not much point in playing.
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Old 9th May 2005, 12:46 AM   #116
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
Yes, you do.


No, not really.

I forgot, another reason I object to being lumped in with the likes of Grank is that he thinks he's funny, but really he isn't.

I'm flattered that you even have a list.
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Old 9th May 2005, 02:55 AM   #117
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
You know as well as I do that that's not the limit of it.
Of course; but the fact that it's there doesn't mean it's valid. People are free to say what they want, but obviously the nay-sayers and negative voices knew that this was a great opportunity to have a whinge.

I'm really not seeing the point now - if you don't want to play, don't play - the rest of us will have a lot of fun without the moaning and carrying on anyway. If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen, as they say. Thievery has taken a slight hit in popularity due to GuildWars (unsurprisingly) - yet I'm still getting games in. Old players like Sneaky and Spider are active again, and I've seen a few new names and faces and that's always exciting for this mod. Thievery won't be dying any time soon, and I won't be apologizing for the evolution of the game or the players. If you want to see what the game is like, by all means come along (and wear your real name).
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Old 9th May 2005, 03:58 AM   #118
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I read something the other day whitch fits here...

If you want a rainbow, you have to put up with the rain.

Get it? Good.
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Old 10th May 2005, 07:46 AM   #119
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 Originally Posted by WildBill:
Eventually the goal of their conspiracy changed from simply defeating the Mockers to breaking the tournament itself, though.
Now I dropped...Broke the tournament? I saw it forming pretty well and those two were just fighting each other in order to win the tournament because they were the two main owners of the turf...

Of course there's the cheating...And I really don't know any other cheating or a form of cheating than the laming in Aquatone (With guards raiding the vents, killing you, then someone like Industrialism stays alive, kills 8 guards then completes the objectives and gets through the map...Time taken: 22 minutes, Spectators at end: 13 AND THEY EVERYONE WERE KILLED IN THE BEGINNING )
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Old 10th May 2005, 07:55 AM   #120
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 Originally Posted by Phantaloz:
Now I dropped...Broke the tournament? I saw it forming pretty well and those two were just fighting each other in order to win the tournament because they were the two main owners of the turf...

Of course there's the cheating...And I really don't know any other cheating or a form of cheating than the laming in Aquatone (With guards raiding the vents, killing you, then someone like Industrialism stays alive, kills 8 guards then completes the objectives and gets through the map...Time taken: 22 minutes, Spectators at end: 13 AND THEY EVERYONE WERE KILLED IN THE BEGINNING )
What the f...

I suggest you read the related threads. Very carefully and slowly.
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