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Old 6th Mar 2005, 09:33 PM   #1
WildBill
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TurfWars III and banned players

There's been a fair bit concern and disussion about Stampede and Okih-imus in TurfWars III. Since this issue isn't going to vanish, I'm going to explain the current situation and my reasoning behind it.

Oki and I discussed this before he formed Stampede, and my decision was that commonly banned players would be permitted to enter under a few conditions. First, server admins are under no obligation to unban them for matches. Finding a server they can play on is their responsibility, and since the defending team can force the server choice, this means a team attacked by Stampede can elect to play on a server that Oki is banned from. They have no choice but to play short if they can't field the required number of players.

Second, any reasonable measures -- such as extra spectators -- can be taken to ensure fair play if the other team desires. Oki went so far as to offer to record a video of himself playing to alleviate any concerns, and while I didn't take him up on this, he'd likely be willing to do that if the opposing team desires.

This also applies to any other players that are banned from certain servers.

Any cheating -- or attempted cheating -- results in the immediate and irrevocable disqualification of the involved team.
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Old 6th Mar 2005, 10:48 PM   #2
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Sounds good to me.
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Old 6th Mar 2005, 10:53 PM   #3
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yes, that looks fair. As for our up and coming match, the mockers will not require and extra measures beyond the normal 1 spectating player.
I feel as though I've played the game long enough to tell whether my opponents are hacking or skilled. And I am fairly certain that my guildmates feel the same way.
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Old 7th Mar 2005, 01:59 AM   #4
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Me too, if your going to cheat then do it, you'll be found out and your bonfire rightfully pissed upon.

I'm sure we're mature enough to have a decent, high quality fair game now, I can probably sway one of Brodys servers to allow you on, Crackaz is a different story tho.
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Old 7th Mar 2005, 04:23 AM   #5
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under the rules the defending team picks a server, is that correct?
Although it wouldn't be our preference to play on Brody's over Crackaz or TOB public servers, its up to what Stampede can organise with the admins.
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Old 7th Mar 2005, 10:39 AM   #6
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 Originally Posted by TafferBoy:
under the rules the defending team picks a server, is that correct?
Although it wouldn't be our preference to play on Brody's over Crackaz or TOB public servers, its up to what Stampede can organise with the admins.
The defending team can force server choice -- would be nice if you could agree on one instead, though.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 03:09 PM   #7
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I don’t think a good majority of the TuT community had the pleasure of meeting Epoch, the last known and banned trace of Okih playing on a server, if you had seen what I and allot of others saw that night maybe you wouldn’t be so blind to what your allowing, whether he chooses to cheat or not I don’t honestly care (he’ll be caught like before), (main objection) it’s the fact your allowing him to play in the first place, Considering everything he has done to become banned (multiple reoccurring offences). His team and he himself can’t take part in this tournament legitimately unless arrangements are made or unless he breaks his ban (again). Now its my belief once you do something as wrong/incorrect as cheating you deserve to have all your rights removed and take your punishment, its almost a joke handing him “turf”, were we supposed to take this match seriously ? sure lets play with a banned player who doesn’t deserve the time of day, let alone the privilege of playing on a server he's banned from …You seem biased bill.

I might go track down “kewlazme” and ask Salsa can he join our team and then ask Grank (daringly) can he play on his server ( sarcastic example of course), bit like slapping people in the face asking for those kind of arrangements isn’t it Bill?. But looking at okih it’s a bit more than a slap in the face, its just plain retarded allowing that kind of leeway, almost a questionable exception as to why you have allowed him to take part in this. How much is he paying you? (JK). Point stands…regardless of being the defending team and picking a server where we can screw him over on (banned on), why are you even allowing him to take part in this tournament and also why are you not looking at the reasons he’s banned and seeing he doesn’t deserve to be part of this, period. Would you allow Kam or Nem to play? I think not…and don’t say yes, because I will go to certain lengths to test it.

I’m very disappointed at how soft people are towards this (looks at Machine), but mainly how exactly (after reading the rules) do you expect the defending team to arrange that kind of match for the exception of him being banned, in under 3 days even though you gave us extended time…its almost unachievable in some respect. And to be honest I and I think I speak for others here are not going to go out of our way to give a banned player the opportunity to become unbanned for a short period of time including playing with him when he and others dont deserve to be able to play this game online…regardless of tournament rules which by the looks of things carry more flaws than any other system I have encountered of late, the fact he and others are banned is stupid to think they should have some reason to be part of this.

I wonder would LR allow him and other banned players to play in this tournament.

I don’t care about winning this tournament or achieving some score but seeing how stupidly your rules and banned players conflict with the recent bans and decisions made by admins, should we even take this tournament seriously ?
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 03:58 PM   #8
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Indus, I want more teams in the tourny, I think it will be obvious under these circumstances where the matches are spectated under such watchful eyes if they do cheat. Plus in all honesty you know very little about the discussions and reasons for Oki's banning, there was much discussion over the implications upon Daniels siblings prior to the Ban, so to be frank (you be Barbara) you know very little about the details...

I see your point, and I hope you see mine, but don't single me out as the only person allowing this to take place, lest I beat you like a red headed stepchild.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 04:20 PM   #9
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If im not mistaken,
the defending team decides which server. if certain players are banned from this server, sucks to be that player. those players shouldnt have gotten themselves banned in the first place. live and learn.

Basically if someone were to deny banned players such as okih the right to play in a planned match, that is at their liberty.
Therfore, stampede can only challenge and play under the understanding that they are being watched and the defending team agrees to allow them to play.

Indus, you have two choices. You can be a lame ass bastard and deny stampede the right to invade korman by selecting a server from which certain players are banned.

OR you could see that the tournament needs teams, participation and sustenance, and allow them to participate in the spirit of the game. despite past grudges.

I think that you should choose the latter. I think it will be safe to let them play, they know they are being watched.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 04:29 PM   #10
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I won't be unbanning Okih from crackaz, too much hassle/work, and I am not keen on doing it personally, but arrangements can be made.

Cheating aint the only thing people get banned for. . .

Attitude - -
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 04:38 PM   #11
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Ah, Indus... if you have a major problem with the rules, feel free to actually make some points.

In the mean-time: realize that if Okih plays, Bill had absolutely shit all to do with the decision. He's said quite clearly that IF THE SERVER ADMINS ARE WILLING TO UNBAN THE PLAYER, they can play. He never advocated unbanning players, simply introduced a method whereby if people wanted to match banned players, they could - with the express permission of a server admin. Gabe already said it - it's just as possible to completely exclude them from the tournament if you so choose.

So I don't see why this has anything to do with Bill, or even Machine. Speaking for the Mockers, we'd like to play Okih - it's easy to run off at the mouth about how good you are when you don't have to walk the walk in-game.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 04:42 PM   #12
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lol, indus, okhi does not cheat. i think you must believe no one is that good. my siblings sarah, rachel, christine and tony were spec cheaters and since i kept a better eye on them than okhi, i stopped them from doing when i saw it. well, i left home so now they are banned, but i still let my bros on my server.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 06:37 PM   #13
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 Quote:
Attitude - -
Exactly. Although I didn't intentionally try to annoy people, I accept the ban.

I am extremely tired of Indus kicking me around on these forums. He's always spitting at me. It fills me with great rage but I'm trying hard to keep my cool. Don't say I'll be caught again Indus, because I was never cheating in the first place. I may have gotten out of hand with the LOL'S on people, but I never cheated. And whenever you say that, it really ticks me off.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 08:14 PM   #14
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I see your point clearly Machine and I’m glad you see mine, as for singling you out, you made it clear about allowing him on a server he is banned on “I can probably sway one of Brodys servers to allow you on” that is why I said what I said, are you unforgiving by any chance ?. Still not like what I say should really mean much to you.
“I beat you like a red headed stepchild” really, without a team? Ill be on Wednesday night hopefully with the desire to play unlike last night…

“Indus, you have two choices. You can be a lame ass bastard and deny stampede the right to invade korman by selecting a server from which certain players are banned.”

Gaybe: You miss the primary point and instead make half you point strengthened with abuse *claps*, I’ll happily face any team (see you Friday) but banned players for whatever exceptions are a NO.

Shug: I’m not taking stabs at people I’m making points and asking questions (testing if anything) still a banned player is a banned player, why he is so easily accepted into this tournament and then people are possibly going out of there way to unban him (temporarily) for matches, seems ridiculous> why the exception ?
Bill is in charge of this tournament that’s why I use his name and direct questions towards him, but not to annoy or aggravate him or others for that matter (looks at machine). But because he is the only person who can answer for the rules and tournament side of things, I chose to ask him. As for the servers we all know the deal there, but i'm not going out of my way (player presence) to give this player or any other the chance to play online against online players> banned means banned. And I don’t expect people to go fine we won’t play against him, I just want to know why certain people have chose to make an exception and really why this is is even getting off the ground. If he doesn’t get to play a single match in this tournament I’ll be happy, but if he does I’ll lose all my understanding in the word banned.

“okhi does not cheat. I think you must believe no one is that good”

Crkz server: he used an alias “Epoch” and said he hadn’t played in around a year or two, my memory of text isn’t that good… however he had god like powers from the start and was able to do things other players that are exceptional are incapable of doing, whether okih has cheated prior I don’t have any proof or footage but that evening your brother was using an aimbot, Hs and Archi were there and they came to the same conclusion very quickly and soon after, okih was banned again after breaking his ban that night. He probably thought if i’m going to be perma banned then I might as well go and get it all out of my system and so accompanied by his little toy he decided to ruin everyone else’s fun that evening. If you would like me to tell you what your brother was able to do that night, I’ll happily tell you the whole story.

Okih: blow phae…but before you do, install this anti cheat program Grank was talking about, then go back in time and prove to me and the other players that night you were not using an aimbot on Grank’s server while using the alias Epoch. Unachievable? Yes. Can I prove you cheated? NO. Do we both know what I’m talking about? Yes. You cheated because you were angry about your ban, and after being banned and knowing that would be your final match, you chose to do what most banned players do, which is break your ban install programs and get all the anger out of your system and get some satisfaction in annihilating players in a way you are incapable of doing without an aid.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 08:58 PM   #15
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 Originally Posted by industrialism:
Shug: I’m not taking stabs at people I’m making points and asking questions (testing if anything) still a banned player is a banned player, why he is so easily accepted into this tournament and then people are possibly going out of there way to unban him (temporarily) for matches, seems ridiculous> why the exception ?
Bill is in charge of this tournament that’s why I use his name and direct questions towards him, but not to annoy or aggravate him or others for that matter (looks at machine). But because he is the only person who can answer for the rules and tournament side of things, I chose to ask him.
You said:
 Quote:
Now its my belief once you do something as wrong/incorrect as cheating you deserve to have all your rights removed and take your punishment, its almost a joke handing him “turf”, were we supposed to take this match seriously ? sure lets play with a banned player who doesn’t deserve the time of day, let alone the privilege of playing on a server he's banned from …You seem biased bill.
I said:

Bill isn't unbanning him/favouring him/making any decisions he is not fully qualified to make. He's giving the participants of his tournament an avenue to play otherwise banned players if they so choose. If you want to blame people, blame the ones who want to see this tournament is as large as possible. That includes me, and obviously Mach too.
TW III has been running for a negligible amount of time and already it looks like it will be/already is the best TurfWars yet. Full credit to Bill, and full credit to his thorough approach that most bases have been covered in a game that does not lend itself to Tournament play. I fail entirely to see how him providing OPTIONS to people makes him biased in any way.
Your initial post apparently indicated you don't understand who is "responsible" for the participation of Stampede in this tourney. My reply should have made it clear to you Bill's role in this issue and where the "blame" lies for letting okih play in the tournament. I understand why you'd be pissed, of course. That doesn't change the fact that what definitely looked to be an attack on certain people was really neither here nor there, especially the comment about Bill being biased.

Your team can choose (in conjunction with server admins) whether it wishes to war against banned players. That's you and your teammates' privilege. But don't tell me how I should run my team and who we should or shouldn't play. I'm fully aware of what happened (more so than you are, I suspect) and our blokes have made a decision based on the relevant facts. A clean war is what we will get, and I don't see any problem with that.

It is eminently possible to force banned players to miss a match under this ruleset.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 09:27 PM   #16
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We will happily play them and we will play to win.
No use crying over spilt milk, the conditions placed upon Oki seem reasonable enough, for me atleast, we are a friendly community, let's keep it that way.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 10:00 PM   #17
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I don’t speak for the nldw team when I'm discussing okih on these boards or the match we were supposed to play, if they had anything to say they would say it them selves. I’m not that greatly involved with the tournament either I joined just to help 13x and co out, so they would have players available as in make matches and the tourney happen. At the end of it, this discussion goes nowhere its an on going (disagreement) vs. (we don’t care who the hell you are, we want matches) nothing is going to change and regardless of that> these are merely my views on it and my disagreements. Because I appear to be the only person who as some would say holds a "grudge", and for a fucking good reason might I ad, is the reason this thread exists. Its nice Bill has made this happen this tournament, but I just think....and so its starts again, enjoy your matches…

“If you want to blame people, blame the ones who want to see this tournament is as large as possible. That includes me, and obviously Mach too.”

What do I verbally attack you or dare disagree with the majority, you know what happens to people who do that don’t you Shug, but I’m glad you see it how I see it, but no, no one here takes the “blame” at all. All I ask are questions hoping to be argued with decently and the only point shown is we want a big tournament :-) so if that is more important which it is to some…then so be it.

“Especially the comment about Bill being biased.”

Daniel casts quite a good shadow over okih, does that show you where I was coming from shug, edit> And the fact unstop, kam, or nem, wouldn't be treat the same.
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 10:57 PM   #18
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If you really think about it, not allowing him participation would also be bias. Besides, I hardly think Bill would give a crap if the entire tournament turned around and didn't want to play Stampede - he'd say so be it and they wouldn't play. I daresay I don't give a crap that Dan's his older brother - with all due respect to Dan, of course, who I know is a good guy. I'm just saying their relationship is immaterial in this.

KAM and Nem were caught cheating with a mountain of proof (KAM was even done for ini hacks before that). I never saw any videos and/or conclusive proof that Okih was cheating with third party programs. No admins did. That's completely removed from any influence Dan has in this community, the fact is people don't get banned just because people on a pub server "are sure" that they are cheating. Okih and the younger brothers/sisters got done for screencheating and poor conduct. So while there may or may not have been substance to aimbotting allegations, we couldn't act without any evidence. As for Unstop, haha... I think I'll leave that alone.

The fact that I want to get the hell on with my life and not worry so much about somebody who got banned six months ago and is briefly allowed to play in a Thievery tournament is really not such a big deal to me. And that's basically what I think about it - and coupled with a burning ambition to beat Stampede completely into the ground, that is the most honest and best answer I can give to you about why I personally don't mind them playing. Shall we leave it at that?
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Old 8th Mar 2005, 11:18 PM   #19
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 Originally Posted by industrialism:
Crkz server: he used an alias “Epoch” and said he hadn’t played in around a year or two, my memory of text isn’t that good… however he had god like powers from the start and was able to do things other players that are exceptional are incapable of doing, whether okih has cheated prior I don’t have any proof or footage but that evening your brother was using an aimbot, Hs and Archi were there and they came to the same conclusion very quickly and soon after, okih was banned again after breaking his ban that night. He probably thought if i’m going to be perma banned then I might as well go and get it all out of my system and so accompanied by his little toy he decided to ruin everyone else’s fun that evening. If you would like me to tell you what your brother was able to do that night, I’ll happily tell you the whole story.

ya know, i love this game. but i was banned for a temporary time before i moved to college. dont assume that because me and my bros were banned that we stopped playing. i remember spam and okhi having hours of playtime on tob deathmatch arena using all bow and trying to dm each other in or out of the arenas. i joined sometimes but i got my ass handed to, cause they really are better than me, and wouldn't you say i'm a decent player?

and if had some logs to look over, you'd see that under the alias epoch, my bro was not just a guard all the time with uber aim. he's an amazing thief and he pulls off crazy moves that i would never think of doing. i guess i'm just pissed that you think an honest player like myself would let my own bro cheat. i'm well aware of what my brother is capeable of, i would know if something was up.

and your thought process is completely flawed, he aliased because the people playing instantly think he uses an aimbot thanks to people like yourself spreading this rumors and he'd be banned right off as soon as he joined. plus he even pmed the admins informing them of our ip being changed because of a storm resetting our router, and asking if our ban was still in effect, what kind of stupid idoit that wanted to rage on the servers with an aimbot would do that?
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 02:03 AM   #20
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Indust,

My choice to try and let Oki play on a single, non-public, match server, hopefully regulated by Granks anti-cheat is my choice, and your right, your opinion matters not in that choice.

You know NOTHING about the relationship between Daniel, his siblings and myself, Daniel was part of my Team long before you even DREAMT of the existance of TUT, hes a great guy and a good friend. Spamslayer and Oki dispite whats happened I cannot just turn around and hate, I had good games with them at one period in time, I certainly wouldn't "not give them the time of day" as you appear to have proclaimed...

The choice is mine, I want to give this tournament the extra substance sampeade will bring. I wouldn't do the same for KAM or NEM because to be quite honest, the attitude of those guys sucked. What I think we have here is simply too many kids, too young and stupid to understand what they're doing.
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 12:13 PM   #21
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 Originally Posted by industrialism:
I wonder would LR allow him and other banned players to play in this tournament.
WWLRD?
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 12:15 PM   #22
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Indust... Just please, drop the shit, and pretend that you are ignoring Okih.
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 01:18 PM   #23
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...Over
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 04:34 PM   #24
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
WWLRD?
lofl, I've already ordered my WWLRD shirt.

On the back it should say "A BOTTLE OF WHISKEY IN 45 MINUTES"
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 05:10 PM   #25
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 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
WWLRD?
Classic. Took me a second or so to figure out what that was.

LMAO.
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 08:20 PM   #26
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What Would Laughing Rat Do?
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Dan, does this girl even know you? At all?
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 10:23 PM   #27
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 Originally Posted by Swiss Mercenary:
What Would Laughing Rat Do?
Give the man a free tshirt. Better still, smack him over the head with a WWLRD coffee mug. Hard.
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Old 9th Mar 2005, 10:47 PM   #28
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Well I hope nothing bad comes from this post but all I can say of what I've read so far is:

To start:
 Originally Posted by Swiss Mercenary:
Indust... Just please, drop the shit...
Well said there, thanks for saying that, that way I didn't have to

@ Indus, Search as much as you can, is there really an undetectable aimbot? or in the demo's does it show any signs of one?

Speaking about more than what you know.

All that I got from both of your huge posts is:
1: good job spamming, you could have just said "Don't let him play, because I'm afraid he will win"
2: Jealously of another player better than you
3: Wanting to be the best

now what i think about you a little now:
1: you can't face losing
2: if you see someone do something you can't do, you automatically think they are cheating
3: you don't get any better if you don't practice

Well I'm done Good Luck to all in Turf Wars III

gotta go kill last guard in DE with 25 minutes left
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Old 10th Mar 2005, 12:16 AM   #29
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The most interesting and never answered Question in the World is still "Where should the Hurons go?"

The TW III Server is configured and spent by Crackaz, not Brodys. I see no Need to think any Thought about Okihs Ban/Unban on Brodys.
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Old 10th Mar 2005, 12:37 AM   #30
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 Originally Posted by SpamSlayer:
Some crap that doesn't deserve being quoted
Why won't you take the advice for which you praised me, and drop the matter, too?

 Originally Posted by LaughingRat:
Give the man a free tshirt. Better still, smack him over the head with a WWLRD coffee mug. Hard.
Blunt trauma has nothing on me.
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Dan, does this girl even know you? At all?
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