Which side is lamer?

[Tieom]

Edit: Forget the poll (If it still exsists, which I don't think it does).

Well, I want to hear opinions on this:
Which side, when winning and you are not on that side, do you feel won by 'lameness' more of the time?

In my not-so-humble opinion, the thieves' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Circlestrafe blackjacking
The catfall + invis (+ speed) combo
The sword (though this is hardly a 'tactic')
Sniping from an unreachable position (Though not much is unreachable anymore)
Rushing the objective
And, supposedly, KOing a guard under any circumstances in which the guard is unnaturally disadvantaged (Cracked, flashbombed, or while the thief is under the effect of a potion)

Again, IMNSHO, the guards' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Spawnrape
Firespam
Vent-hunting
Heavy objective camping (All 10+ guards in a small room, w/ mines, trops, and whistlers, only a few entrances/exits)
Exit camping
Heavy flarescanning
Heavy shadowslashing
Putting objects on objectives that must be opened/lockpicked (I.e. most of the map chests in skelston)
Putting the Supply chest on an objective

Please comment on why you made your choice.

[immortius]

Generally, the side which is most lame is always the side that is winning, unless you are on it.

[Slappy]

It's not the sides (thieves or guards) that are lame, it's the players. There are people who do lame things on both sides. Often, lameness begets more lameness. If the thieves CS KO, guards will firespam and/or fortify themselves in a small room. It becomes a contest of who can out-lame the other.

[Tankazz]

as a primarily guarding player, i dont find it unfair that a thief use catfall, invis and speed combo, unless they go around trying to ko every guard in the map. Otherwise its a perfectly useful, if not, terribly expensive (speed/invis) combo. How is rushing the objective lame? (IMO), what is lame for a thief to do is to knock out a bunch of guards without any necesity. If a guard isnt in your way, is there a huge need to knock them out? The sword isnt lame, unless thieves are just out to DM. Ive seen less dmming with a sword by good players, than blocking, which is what its best used for. Circle strafe blackjacking is... well... cant really be helped, but i still think (unless you are in a scuffle with a guard) goes back to the needless blackjacking thing.

As for guard tactics, spawnraping is terribly lame, firespamming is lame-ish. More detramental than helpful though. heavy objective camping doesnt exist, its just reallly guarding an objective (extreme guarding, if you wish ). Flarescanning is unrealistic if anything, not necessarily lame, i suppose. Shadowslashing for no reason is lame, unless you're fairly certain you saw a thief in an area and/or you dont have a flare. Putting the supply chest on an objective no longer matters because you can frob an objective though objects now (even thin walls (damnit ) As for objective stacking (ie Skelston), its all a matter of where the map winds up. If you're quick you can still grab it with the frob-through-items thing, although it doesnt help if there are tons of things on it. its basically a flexible trap, as far as ium concerned.

[Percolator Fish]

Other then spawnraping and objective burying, everything you have listed is a legitimate tactic. There are just too many noobies and crybabies around.

[Katra]

I am not biased to either side and i take an equal enjoyment of both sides.

HOWEVER>>>

I have some disagreements.

Circlestrafe bjing is not necessarily unfair had everyone the same connection rate.. however some of us have slower connections and there fore get continually out spun by ppl with better machines/ connections. That IMHO is bullshit.

sword thieving is out of the question and should be deleted permanently from tut. No more sword buying means no more swordthieving.

Firebolt using is legit as long as it is not abused. more than 2 firebolts is just anal and annoying.

triple potion combos are totally legit and if a teef wants to waste all their supplies to ko 1 guard thats fine by me.

superobj camping is legit as long as the doorways are not blocked.

itemstacking on objs= unfair and a timewaster to all thieves. its another game abuse. as is 6 firebolts

the black jack doesnt matter its power is getting severely reduced in 1.3 (THANK GOD!)
Hopefully it will be made optional too

Sniping is legitimate and it is sometimes the only way to get guards out of a doorway. if the guards are stpid enuogh to linger while a thief puts arrows in his back then thats just stupidity. also it solves venthunters. I think that arrow damage should be reduced a little bit.

A flarescan is toally legit thats what there there for by doing so you risk getting koed anyway.

vent hunting is just plain stupid. you get sniped to death end of story. It may be strategic and black a thief path in maps such as asylum.

rushing the objective!? thats half the fun. sometimes the thieves succeed sometimes they fail. The biginning stages of a game could be the key to victory if the cardsw are played right by either side.

[CrouchingDork]

Katra, about sword thieving, I actually like it, I know a few great players who can use it very effectively, and I don't really care when a n00b buys one because they're easy to beat anyways if you know how.

[Majarisan]

Edit: Forget the poll (If it still exsists, which I don't think it does).

Well, I want to hear opinions on this:
Which side, when winning and you are not on that side, do you feel won by 'lameness' more of the time?

In my not-so-humble opinion, the thieves' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Circlestrafe blackjacking
The catfall + invis (+ speed) combo
The sword (though this is hardly a 'tactic')
Sniping from an unreachable position (Though not much is unreachable anymore)
Rushing the objective
And, supposedly, KOing a guard under any circumstances in which the guard is unnaturally disadvantaged (Cracked, flashbombed, or while the thief is under the effect of a potion)

Again, IMNSHO, the guards' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Spawnrape
Firespam
Vent-hunting
Heavy objective camping (All 10+ guards in a small room, w/ mines, trops, and whistlers, only a few entrances/exits)
Exit camping
Heavy flarescanning
Heavy shadowslashing
Putting objects on objectives that must be opened/lockpicked (I.e. most of the map chests in skelston)
Putting the Supply chest on an objective

Please comment on why you made your choice.

None of that with the exception of putting the chest on objectives and spawnrape is lame. Ya winning by dming everything can suck at times, but all of that is programmed in the game and is completely fair.

[Aggamemnon]

Katra, about sword thieving, I actually like it, I know a few great players who can use it very effectively, and I don't really care when a n00b buys one because they're easy to beat anyways if you know how.

Exactly what i think when CD gets himself one teeheehee

:lol:

[Hybrid]

Critique time.

Circlestrafe blackjacking
Yep, lame.
The catfall + invis (+ speed) combo
Not lame, it's a perfectly acceptable use of potions
The sword (though this is hardly a 'tactic')
I fail to see why people think this is lame. Guards get the mace, which is more powerful, and more health to boot. If two thieves are cooperating with swords together, why are the guards not doing the same?
Sniping from an unreachable position (Though not much is unreachable anymore)
If you're a guard and you're outmatched (large patch of darkness), run away. Catch a thief another day on your own turf.
Rushing the objective
Perfectly acceptable
And, supposedly, KOing a guard under any circumstances in which the guard is unnaturally disadvantaged (Cracked, flashbombed, or while the thief is under the effect of a potion)
That has to be a joke

Again, IMNSHO, the guards' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Spawnrape
Yep, lame. Though pretty much every case where a thief spawns next to a guard that happens to be there, the guards are nice enough to escort the thief to a more proper spawn point.
Firespam
Yeah, that needs to be addressed. I suggest a max of 2 firebolts
Vent-hunting
I don't get it, all thieves have to do to counter this would be crack+broadheads, or not even crack.
Heavy objective camping (All 10+ guards in a small room, w/ mines, trops, and whistlers, only a few entrances/exits)
Yep, lame. Though unfixable unless all guards would make a pact not to do it. I wouldn't agree to that pact....
Exit camping
I know its been discussed, but I think a system of singular escapes would be a very good cure.
Heavy flarescanning
Yeah. Maybe the flare thing everyone is talking about will be put in.
Heavy shadowslashing
Maybe a stamina bar would cure this. If you swing and miss, stamina goes down, a hit, and it stays the same, and goes up anyway. Movement would have no effect on it.
Putting objects on objectives that must be opened/lockpicked (I.e. most of the map chests in skelston)
Heh, yeah. The map should probably be on a wide open table
Putting the Supply chest on an objective
That should be a bannable offence. After a warning, of course.

[Yenzarill]

Generally, the side which is most lame is always the side that is winning, unless you are on it.

So true.

[Star]

Critique time.

Circlestrafe blackjacking
Yep, lame.
The catfall + invis (+ speed) combo
Not lame, it's a perfectly acceptable use of potions
The sword (though this is hardly a 'tactic')
I fail to see why people think this is lame. Guards get the mace, which is more powerful, and more health to boot. If two thieves are cooperating with swords together, why are the guards not doing the same?
Sniping from an unreachable position (Though not much is unreachable anymore)
If you're a guard and you're outmatched (large patch of darkness), run away. Catch a thief another day on your own turf.
Rushing the objective
Perfectly acceptable
And, supposedly, KOing a guard under any circumstances in which the guard is unnaturally disadvantaged (Cracked, flashbombed, or while the thief is under the effect of a potion)
That has to be a joke

Again, IMNSHO, the guards' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Spawnrape
Yep, lame. Though pretty much every case where a thief spawns next to a guard that happens to be there, the guards are nice enough to escort the thief to a more proper spawn point.
Firespam
Yeah, that needs to be addressed. I suggest a max of 2 firebolts
Vent-hunting
I don't get it, all thieves have to do to counter this would be crack+broadheads, or not even crack.
Heavy objective camping (All 10+ guards in a small room, w/ mines, trops, and whistlers, only a few entrances/exits)
Yep, lame. Though unfixable unless all guards would make a pact not to do it. I wouldn't agree to that pact....
Exit camping
I know its been discussed, but I think a system of singular escapes would be a very good cure.
Heavy flarescanning
Yeah. Maybe the flare thing everyone is talking about will be put in.
Heavy shadowslashing
Maybe a stamina bar would cure this. If you swing and miss, stamina goes down, a hit, and it stays the same, and goes up anyway. Movement would have no effect on it.
Putting objects on objectives that must be opened/lockpicked (I.e. most of the map chests in skelston)
Heh, yeah. The map should probably be on a wide open table
Putting the Supply chest on an objective
That should be a bannable offence. After a warning, of course.

Salsa, you obviously seem to be a thief prone player

[-=V12US=-]

Edit: Forget the poll (If it still exsists, which I don't think it does).

Well, I want to hear opinions on this:
Which side, when winning and you are not on that side, do you feel won by 'lameness' more of the time?

In my not-so-humble opinion, the thieves' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Circlestrafe blackjacking
Definately lame, the BJ is ment as a sneak weapon, not a weapon that
can be used to disable any guard in any melee situation.

The catfall + invis (+ speed) combo
Not lame, the cost balances out the effectiveness

The sword (though this is hardly a 'tactic')
If used offensively, then yes. If used defensively, then no

Sniping from an unreachable position (Though not much is unreachable anymore)
Support sniping is a perfectly legal tactic, and in some situations even neccesary... every sniper knows that the best sniping position is one where the opponent has a hard time reaching you...
Once again, when this is being used offensively (IE: the whole team is on the roof doing nothing but sniping guards, then it becomes rather lame, but this is easily countered, since on most maps the thieves have to come inside anyways.

Rushing the objective
Legal, and on some maps even the "only" way to win a map (IE: gerome's evidence anyone?). Again, this iseasily countered by guards (except on folly, where the ruby seems to spawn closer to thieves than guards).

And, supposedly, KOing a guard under any circumstances in which the guard is unnaturally disadvantaged (Cracked, flashbombed, or while the thief is under the effect of a potion)
Not lame, however, this tactic seems to be used a lot in conjunction with circlestrafing or DM'ing (DM'ing as in attacking guards in broad daylight, which in my opinion is lame.


Again, IMNSHO, the guards' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Spawnrape
Definately lame, guards who do this (a lot) get banned even (unless they're new people who don't know the map so well).

Firespam
Not lame for the same reason the potion combo isn't lame

Vent-hunting
Actually, this is very dangerous on the guards part, and often results in the guard getting killed. Theres no sign anywhere that says guards cannot enter vents.

Heavy objective camping (All 10+ guards in a small room, w/ mines, trops, and whistlers, only a few entrances/exits)
There's a way into everything... sure, it gets lame when theres only one thief left and the whole room filled up with traps, but theres nothing much the guards can do otherwise, considering that going outside currently means certain death/ko because of the huge amount of circlestrafers.

Exit camping
Depends, if the exit is a small area like in flats, then yes, but if it's a huge area like in gerome, then no. Remember that the Exiting part is also an objective, so this part also falls under the heavy-objective-camping rule.

Heavy flarescanning
Hmm, not really sure. I consider it lame, but I do it myself. ^_^;;
I blame the circle strafers

Heavy shadowslashing
Depends, if the guard doesn't know a thief is there, it's lame... but when the guard has recently seen a thief and he has escaped, then shadowslashing a shadow becomes legal because theres a huge possibility a thief is there.

Putting objects on objectives that must be opened/lockpicked (I.e. most of the map chests in skelston)
As long as the red cursor can appear, it is not lame. As soon as people start stacking stuff on it so the objective cannot be seen, it becomes lame.

Putting the Supply chest on an objective
lame, it's incredibly hard to frob something through the chest, even with the red cursor.


Please comment on why you made your choice.

[Salvage]

Again, IMNSHO, the guards' 'lame' tactic list includes:
Spawnrape

This should be on both sides. Last week I was spawn raped by a thief. As a guard you have even less of a chance than a thief who's being spawn raped.

[Tieom]

Just to, well, clarify - The 'venthunting' should be 'venthunting on aquatone', where the vents are for the most part well lit and the primary thief spawn.
In other vent systems (Asylum) the vents are a guard deathtrap, yeah.