My wise advice about the 1.3 comments I've heard...

[The_Judge]

Hey! HEY! WTF is wrong with all of you people? I see polls, I see flames, I see anger, I see hatred. These are all bullshit. How dare you have an opinion about 1.3 patch you pathetic n00bs? You are entitled to an opinion only after 6 months have passed playing it, do you hear me? Now I don't want to hear any more of this shit ok? Go play, learn your new abilities, learn your new advantages, learn your new disadvantages, learn to counter your disadvantages, learn to effectivelly use your equipment and go have fun. You can make complaints only after a 6 month period. Suckers... :wink: :lol:

[acetken]

We're supposed to wait 6 months before the next patch? :x

[Slappy]

It was 6 months between 1.2 and 1.3.

I don't think we'll see 1.4 any time soon. The changes in 1.3 have to be evaluated, which takes time. Then it needs to be decided what should be changed for 1.4, which takes yet more time, and then those changes need to be implemented and tested, which takes even more time.

I do hope that we'll see a patch soon, to fix the bugs in 1.3.

As for The_Judge's comments, I think he's right to a degree - people need to first get used to 1.3 before their complaints are anything other than whining about how they can't DM no more. I don't think it will take 6 months, though.

[Rob FILTH]

Most people moaning here have played this game a hell of a lot and aren't DM Thieves,even the hardcore ghosters are having a devil of a time of it since 1.3.

I think most people who enjoy this game and want the multiplayer kept true to the original Thief-games spirit,would rather see Thieves win by objective rather than Deathmatch-that's not the arguement here.Nor that Thieves that are using Deathmatch tactics in 1.3 are getting it all wrong.

The arguement is that the unlimited loadouts to Guards and auto-revival Uber-Guard crap have severely damaged the balance of this mod which is threatening to turn what small amount of players that do play it away in droves and are hardly likely to inspire any new players to pick up on this mod when each game has the same old predictable results.

Thieves are too severely limited in their loadouts now to even attempt objectives by ghosting-especially now when additional tools like invis potions scattered around in some maps can be broken and smashed by the invulnerable fire-spamming Rambo-Uber Guards.

most of the Thieves kit is usually having to be used just to avoid the amount of Guards and Uber AI there are scattered around the maps to the point that theres absolutely nothing left to use before the objective is even in sight.

1.3 only needs a bit of fine-tuning to work,which is:

1/Keep in the fob revival system for guards to eliminate Thief-win-by-Guard-Elimination Deathmatch type tactics which WAS wrong in 1.2-but maybe alter it to smelling salts costing 30 gold each in Guards loadout and make it where the time for it to active the Koed Guard is not instantaneous(maybe the same amount of time as Thieves lockpicks take to work)-this increases the Guards Jepody/Reward gameplay also.

2/Take out the auto-revival crap altogether,it's rubbish.Guards never re-awoke in the original games,why the hell should they here?It's unbalanced the hell out of this mod and makes it totally boring to play as not only a Thief but a Guard also.

3/Limit Guards load out to 2 fire-arrows each-or failing that allow Thieves more speed/invis potions to compensate.

Balance means a 50/50 amount of wins for BOTH Teams,not 90/10.

I don't want to see combative Thieves deathmatching in the game and winning by Guard elimination as its not exactly in the spirit of the original Thief games,but I don't want to see a completely unbalanced mod which needs to change its title to "Uber-Rambo-Guardery"not only turning off the possibility of any new players joining and putting off the majority of old players playing as well

If it is left to up to six months to correct some of these balance issues then I fear that there won't be any players interested enough to play this mod anymore-and it's hardly like its a community overflowing with players at the moment now,is it?

[Mr.K.]

There's one thing i miss when playing as a guard: the thrill of being vulnerable in dark areas. I just zoom at 40mph everywhere around and try to see something unusual. If i was into it, i could just do the same swinging my sword and it'd be even more boring.

Thievery plays now just like hide and seek, not multiplayer thief. Thieves hide, i seek them. They get seen, they are dead (well, with Jedi-AI by my side they don't even need to actually get seen, just sensed by the powers of the force).

As a thief, i've not played much, but the games i've done are certainly thrilling. Didn't win any of them, but they were fine. If i played 6-10 games every day and they all went like the ones i played i'd feel frustrated, though.

I like the patch, it's just too difficult for thieves. No, the issue it's too easy for guards, which is not the same thing.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Hey! HEY! WTF is wrong with all of you people? I see polls, I see flames, I see anger, I see hatred. These are all bullshit. How dare you have an opinion about 1.3 patch you pathetic n00bs? You are entitled to an opinion only after 6 months have passed playing it, do you hear me? Now I don't want to hear any more of this shit ok? Go play, learn your new abilities, learn your new advantages, learn your new disadvantages, learn to counter your disadvantages, learn to effectivelly use your equipment and go have fun. You can make complaints only after a 6 month period. Suckers... :wink: :lol:

Don't flame us untill you have seen 6 months of our flames.

Idiot. :wink: :lol:

[-=V12US=-]

Hey! HEY! WTF is wrong with all of you people? I see polls, I see flames, I see anger, I see hatred. These are all bullshit. How dare you have an opinion about 1.3 patch you pathetic n00bs? You are entitled to an opinion only after 6 months have passed playing it, do you hear me? Now I don't want to hear any more of this shit ok? Go play, learn your new abilities, learn your new advantages, learn your new disadvantages, learn to counter your disadvantages, learn to effectivelly use your equipment and go have fun. You can make complaints only after a 6 month period. Suckers... :wink: :lol:

Don't flame us untill you have seen 6 months of our flames.

Idiot. :wink: :lol:

It's just that in 1.3 the tables are finally turned.

In 1.2, the RLF was constantly complaining about the DM circlestrafers and all the thieves just laughed it away and called us pansy skillless guards who couldn't find a counter against it.

Now the tables are turned, yet when we tell the thieves to stop bitching and start playing to find counters against it, the thieves get all high and mighty and start calling us overpowered skilless rambo guards.

Doesn't that sound odd to you? Must be just me.

[Mr.K.]

No matter what, in 1.2 guards won like 2/3 of the games. DM'ing must'nt been that bad.

Now guards win at least 3/4 or the fames. The game has gone in the wrong direction!! :grin:

If during all the time 1.2 was on and the while 1.3 has been playable no one has found such a "counter" one might think there are some balance issues that are intrinsic to the system and not players' skills.

I'd not tell what to change, as i like the new AI. They are sort of unfair (in genius, mind you), but i like being scared of guards.

Shame is that as a guard i'd like to be scared of thieves (at least in dark areas) and no matter how much i try, i just cannot be.

[Rob FILTH]

It's just that in 1.3 the tables are finally turned.

In 1.2, the RLF was constantly complaining about the DM circlestrafers and all the thieves just laughed it away and called us pansy skillless guards who couldn't find a counter against it.

The tables have turned when Thieves achieved a 40% win ratio in 1.2?

No the tables haven't turned-whats happened is the Guard-Bitchery on this forum has destroyed this mod in terms of balance completely.

What is the use of Ghosting on a severely limited loadout against limitless flare scanners,flame spammers and completely fearless shadow-slashers?Even the most eliteist uber-ghost thief is hard pushed against those odds.That's without even taking into account the uberAI tagging shadow dwelling invisible thieves or hearing their footsteps from 3 miles away.

And aren't the people that are insisting(beyond all reasonable comprehension)that 1.3 is fair to all teams the same people that were bitching not that long ago when they did come across a good ghoster that the time limit should be reduced down on all games because they were getting bored shitless waiting around and not seeing any thieves to bash? Seems strange that,doesn't it?

1.3 HAS produced Over-Powered Skilless RamboUber-guards.When I play as a Guard now-I'm bored to tears with the lack of challenge coming from the other team of Puny Nerfendo-defenseless dead in seconds Thieves.
When I was playing Warehouse the other night I was defending the key to the Loot-rooms completely single-handedly against the whole Thief team whilst the other Uber-Guards were just arseing around with their taffer-song spamming and fighting over the supplybox and pushing bolts into each other in the other warehouse and I tell you what....it was so easy I could've done it in my sleep.

Not even the ghosters who had managed to slip past my strategically placed uberAI and defenses had a single chance of getting anywhere near the damn room let alone inside it-and as for killing them.....well they lasted all of a second once I had spotted/detected them-the pirsuit of them was damn easy and the killing of them Mercilessly piss-easy too.

In 1.2 circle-straffers used to generally end up dead if I ever came across them as a Guard-or certainly lost the majority of their health,the bigger issues I had with the BlackJack was the occassional full-frontal KO's that occoured,or full-light deathmatchers that gave no regard to Thief-lives and wanted to win a round purely by Guard-Elimination instead of by objectives.

Yes-I HAVE seen a few Thief-wins in 1.3,I won once a 1vs1 match of Stronghold against a n00b that didnt know the map layout and lost the supply chest immediately,and once in Bourgoius when the Guards had gotten so bored with me hiding in the shadows for 20 minutes that they all went to exit-camp leaving the safe unguarded and for me to exit the map via the sewers.Hardly makes for thrilling gameplay-does it?
The other maps I've seen won by Thieves were the occassional Spiders and Folly win-which were always more Thief-friendly maps anyhow.

Revival of KOed bodies by buyable smelling salts and none of this insta-revival Uber-Guard crap would probably address those problems in 1.2(making total Guard elimination wins very difficult and no fault of the Thieves if the Guards aren't wise enough to buy a couple of smelling salt pots beforehand in their loadouts) and level up the balance issues in 1.3.
Frobbable bodies tossed outside the map area ofcourse would need to be made impossible-for it to give Guards a reasonable chance to find the bodies again.

What these stupid Uber-Guards don't seem to understand and get through their dumb thick Rambo-mentality heads is that a lot of the people that are moaning about the balance in 1.3 AREN'T WANTING a return to the deathmatch-fests of 1.2-but a balance where Guards fear shadows again and BJ KO by stealth that is not unrewarding to the Thief and diminishes his gameplay so badly.

[The_Judge]

Oh! I've just had the greatest of all ideas! I think I'll just shut up now, let you debate all you want and I'll go play a few good games of thievery.

Oh, btw, I never complain about anything. Never did as Guard_Master, never will as The_Judge. I just want all ppl to get along fine but, from what I've seen, some ppl here are very fond of arguing, so, no matter what I say or do things will stay as is right?

Oh well, see you in game taffers.

[Mr.K.]

That's why i almost never post, either. Saves me on pointless discussions. But it's my duty as a player to give feedback on the game to the builders.

I like all the changes made in 1.3. It's just that when they're all mixed toghether it doesn't work so fine.
AI super senses and super aim can be fixed turning down the slider a notch or two, and i'm all for a difficult AI (which you can configure to be less of a threat, just as you can now). But guards survival instinct isn't challenged at all as things are now, and it makes things a lil bit boring some times and gives itself to extremely sloppy guarding and sort of nerfes teamplay needs. (You no longer need anyone to support you whil you are scanning an area or venturing into the catacombs).

Now, who said the builders wanted guards to feel conscious about their survivability? But if they are meant to feel like that, something should be done so they have incentives to play and do something.

[Beowulf]

What is the use of Ghosting on a severely limited loadout against limitless flare scanners,flame spammers and completely fearless shadow-slashers?Even the most eliteist uber-ghost thief is hard pushed against those odds.

If you don't KO every human guard ( -hey, I think that's part of "Ghosting" - )
there are no limitless guard things.And ghosters always needed to fear shadowslashers because they have chosen to limit themselves to not KO.
In 1.3 you can even steal the supply chest.
Thieves' loadouts aren't more limited than before either.
Whoa your whole post is full of bullshit to me anyway.

[Alpha-Omega]

Judge I agree with you wholeheartedly. But all you did was start another flame post!!

[The_Judge]

Judge I agree with you wholeheartedly. But all you did was start another flame post!!

I suppose I did :cry:

Hey, bartender! This round of beers for my friends are on me! gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp Cheers taffers! cheers

[Tankazz]

It's just that in 1.3 the tables are finally turned.

In 1.2, the RLF was constantly complaining about the DM circlestrafers and all the thieves just laughed it away and called us pansy skillless guards who couldn't find a counter against it.

Now the tables are turned, yet when we tell the thieves to stop bitching and start playing to find counters against it, the thieves get all high and mighty and start calling us overpowered skilless rambo guards.

Doesn't that sound odd to you? Must be just me.

In 1.2, all I ever did was guard. I tried to avoid being a thief at all costs. I wasn't good at DMing, ghosting, circle strafing, etc. Now, in 1.3, I find myself on te thief team a bit more because it's more challenging. As a guard in 1.3, I like the fact that the AI wake up and can be woken up, etc. As a thief, I tend not to mind the AI waking up because I try to put them as far away from the action as possible (not necessarily an unretreivable area either). Yet still as a guard in 1.3, I do think it a bit unfair that the AI can see/hear/shoot 10x better than most human guards can. Play from the thief side a bit more to see their current arguement with the AI. Now that they theoretically cant 'csbj' the entire map, bringing up the fact that they did in 1.2 is useless.