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  • Simple Tweaks to Stop the 1.3 Whining

    1.3 is a huge imporvement and im a Thief Player. There are just some silly things that need to be tweaked in order to balance the gameplay a bit more.

    1) Guards shoudent wake up by themselves, guards should have to find em. Thats the really fun thing about bjing someone now, you not only have to stealithy take out the Guard, but HIDE the body for the ko to be sucessful. Depending on where you are it could take a few minutes and some very risky manuvers to hide the dude. The problem? They wake up after a mesily 5 minutes! I can understand someone being sloppy with the ko and the guard comming back and reviving him. But a well hidden body should STAY hidden. The worst is when I ko a guard, take great care to hide him UNDERWATER in ZERO visability but after those 5 minutes he magicially teleports onto the mainland.

    2)The new AI is really good. Scary now. But theres one thing that makes me die. Their tag bolts. This is what happens: Human runs arround with AI. AI used jedi powers to find me (theyre very sensative to sound now, witch is better then before but I think could be toned down a bit). Ai tags me, or tags NEAR me. Other Jedi AI all shoot me. I die instantly. The human didnt have to do anything, just drag the Jedi Arround. I think their sences need to be toned down a little, but not so much that theyre Thief Fodder like in 1.2. What we need is a happy medium. Joel, im not knocking your work! Your AI are fantabulous!

    3) This makes the most sence to me. This will eliminate guards TRYING to get koed to get a new loadout. When a human gets koed, he KEEPS the items he used to have. Then when he gets revieved or wakes up and someone spawns into him he has those items the origonal "posessor" had. That way the guards will have no more items available to them then in 1.2, but they wont be able to lose by ko.

    OR

    Revived guards get less loot. Try 400. Or something minimal. Its a punishment for being KOED, but at least theyre alive. They can afford a sword, and a few bolts, a trap or whatever. This will avoid guards getting koed, respawning, buying 6 firebolts, using them, reviving their origonal guard, getting koed, buying 6 firebolts...

    You get the idea. The guards should be puniished slightly for getting koed in the first place, but they should not be able to LOSE by getting koed. We saw more then enough of that in 1.2

    Tell me what you think...

  • #2
    I like guards waking up on their own (as a thief). I mean, it sucks and it makes everything so much more difficult, but it gives you that "Resident Evil" feel where they are constantly and relentlessly coming after you.

    I think that what kills the gameplay most is no fear of being KO'ed (makes things boring for both teams) coupled with the ungodly AI. This turns out to be that you're usually facing 75%+ of the full guard team all the time, with new or almost new loadouts, while the thief team constantly degrades and loses competitivity. There's no need for guard teamwork any more, the AIs just take care of everything, and if you are knocked out you just come back and wake yourself up.

    Comment


    • #3
      ShadowThorn I agree with a lot of your recommendations and hell-yeah-I don't want to see the AI-Dunces that are just Thief fodder like in 1.2,but you're right about those tag-throwing AI-they are too deadly.

      I too like the idea of having to hide a body of a fallen KOed AI in order to prevent him being revived-it adds an extra dimension to the Thief gameplay-but I would rather the insta-revival turned off altogether and for Guards to have to use a time-induced revival on fallen comrades or maybe something from their load out which costed 30 gold or something,because the rivival idea to the game is a valid one which prevents a KO-only win which most people tired of in 1.2.(including myself)

      There does need to be some kind of punishment rather than the current reward system to Human Guards that are Koed-maybe like as you suggest-cos the current senarios are just leading to endless fearless firespamming and shadowslashing which makes the stealth-elements that the dev team were obviously striving to achieve with 1.3 go straight out the window.

      However asking half of these Uberthick-RamboGuards that don't seem to give a toss to the overall balance of the game for their opinions is asking for a flame at the moment and for even you to be called a "DM Thief" and to learn some "New Ghost skills"

      sigh.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ShadowThorn
        1.3 is a huge imporvement and im a Thief Player. There are just some silly things that need to be tweaked in order to balance the gameplay a bit more.

        1) Guards shoudent wake up by themselves, guards should have to find em. Thats the really fun thing about bjing someone now, you not only have to stealithy take out the Guard, but HIDE the body for the ko to be sucessful. Depending on where you are it could take a few minutes and some very risky manuvers to hide the dude. The problem? They wake up after a mesily 5 minutes! I can understand someone being sloppy with the ko and the guard comming back and reviving him. But a well hidden body should STAY hidden. The worst is when I ko a guard, take great care to hide him UNDERWATER in ZERO visability but after those 5 minutes he magicially teleports onto the mainland.
        if guards wouldn't wake-up by themselves, thieves would KO them and throw them out of the level, where they can't be frobbed back to their senses... completely undermining the new ability. In other words, we'd be back were we started.

        2)The new AI is really good. Scary now. But theres one thing that makes me die. Their tag bolts. This is what happens: Human runs arround with AI. AI used jedi powers to find me (theyre very sensative to sound now, witch is better then before but I think could be toned down a bit). Ai tags me, or tags NEAR me. Other Jedi AI all shoot me. I die instantly. The human didnt have to do anything, just drag the Jedi Arround. I think their sences need to be toned down a little, but not so much that theyre Thief Fodder like in 1.2. What we need is a happy medium. Joel, im not knocking your work! Your AI are fantabulous!
        I agree, but I suspect this is also mainly due to the invis. bug (invisibility and the meter/gem are often wayyy off). It is kinda hard getting kills as a guard because the AI keeps killstealing, lol. I suggest it'd be put down to Normal, or Clever when normal proves to be too easy.

        3) This makes the most sence to me. This will eliminate guards TRYING to get koed to get a new loadout. When a human gets koed, he KEEPS the items he used to have. Then when he gets revieved or wakes up and someone spawns into him he has those items the origonal "posessor" had. That way the guards will have no more items available to them then in 1.2, but they wont be able to lose by ko.
        Sounds reasonable, but I'd hate it if someone would KO me and I'd respawn in 'someone else's AI' and got stuck up with his crappy loadout. So I alter this suggestion to "allways stick with your own loadout leftovers.

        This should only work for KO'ing though. When the guard actually loses a life (IE: Getting killed, cratering, suiciding), he gets to buy a new loadout... Also, AI should then be as easy to wake up as they are now (except raise autowake up to 10 mins.). For obvious reasons, KO'd guards don't drop their items, since they keep them.


        OR

        Revived guards get less loot. Try 400. Or something minimal. Its a punishment for being KOED, but at least theyre alive. They can afford a sword, and a few bolts, a trap or whatever. This will avoid guards getting koed, respawning, buying 6 firebolts, using them, reviving their origonal guard, getting koed, buying 6 firebolts...
        That'd just mess up loadouts. I thought about it too but dismissed the feature.

        You get the idea. The guards should be puniished (slightly) for getting koed in the first place, but they should not be able to LOSE by getting koed. We saw more then enough of that in 1.2
        I totally agree 100%.

        Tell me what you think...
        I really liked your 'sticking with the old loadout idea (the red part) except for some alterations. I think it should work, and it wouldn't need alot of coding at all

        Comment


        • #5
          if guards wouldn't wake-up by themselves, thieves would KO them and throw them out of the level, where they can't be frobbed back to their senses... completely undermining the new ability. In other words, we'd be back were we started
          Obviously some kind of barrier needs to be scripted so that Guard bodies can't be thrown outsides of a map-they can't currently with insta-revival now-so why should they be if they had to be frobbed back to their senses by other Guards?

          All thats needed is a respawn Koed body whenever a thief attempts this.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rob FILTH
            if guards wouldn't wake-up by themselves, thieves would KO them and throw them out of the level, where they can't be frobbed back to their senses... completely undermining the new ability. In other words, we'd be back were we started
            Obviously some kind of barrier needs to be scripted so that Guard bodies can't be thrown outsides of a map-they can't currently with insta-revival now-so why should they be if they had to be frobbed back to their senses by other Guards?

            All thats needed is a respawn Koed body whenever a thief attempts this.
            Then I demand KO'd guard bodies aren't invisible. Guards should be afraid of the shadows, yet they have to enter them to find an invisible body? Considering the size and amount of shadows on the average map, it is impossible to go out and check them all with flares or tags. KO'd AI's might as well just be considered lost forever.

            Not to mention bodies thrown in water.

            Comment


            • #7
              - I'd not waste my time quitting what i was doing, exposing myself at slug pace half across the map carrying a body to throw it over the edge of the world and then try to sneak all the way back to where i was even if i was drunk, on speed (bad combo, don't try it) and promised a BJ after doing it.

              - If you have to go into a dark room to wake up somebody and are scared of the monster under the bed, throw in a flare or two, or bring a teammate. Everybody did these when checking dark places in 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2, don't see why it's suddenly such an unfair thing in 1.3.

              - If you wake up in a moat, just swim up and do your stuff. No biggie. Problem is the AI doesn't perform very well when put in weird places, but i guess you could arrange "spawn points" for each area of the map where guards would return to consciousness if left in weird places or something.

              Comment


              • #8
                actually-if you stumble across a KOed body in the dark it does light up and become visible-this happened to me when I caught a Thief trying to hide a Ko'ed body in the rafters in Darkened Enlightenment recently.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ShadowThorn
                  3) This makes the most sence to me. This will eliminate guards TRYING to get koed to get a new loadout. When a human gets koed, he KEEPS the items he used to have. Then when he gets revieved or wakes up and someone spawns into him he has those items the origonal "posessor" had. That way the guards will have no more items available to them then in 1.2, but they wont be able to lose by ko.
                  Originally posted by Virus
                  Sounds reasonable, but I'd hate it if someone would KO me and I'd respawn in 'someone else's AI' and got stuck up with his crappy loadout. So I alter this suggestion to "allways stick with your own loadout leftovers.

                  This should only work for KO'ing though. When the guard actually loses a life (IE: Getting killed, cratering, suiciding), he gets to buy a new loadout... Also, AI should then be as easy to wake up as they are now (except raise autowake up to 10 mins.). For obvious reasons, KO'd guards don't drop their items, since they keep them.
                  Just imagine what would happen to a firespammer , having no bolts left at all and the chest stolen , roaming around defenseless...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stakhanov
                    Just imagine what would happen to a firespammer , having no bolts left at all and the chest stolen , roaming around defenseless...
                    I've had that happen before. I ran around him in circles and shot footstep arrows and moss at him for a while until he commited suicide.

                    :twisted:
                    The only constant is change.
                    (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Was it a rodent?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If this were to happen, then being kod should *not* remove a guard's traps - they should remain in plac.
                        {CTG} Softy Guildmaster
                        Contact details updated
                        I want more than 255 characters in this sig dammit!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr.K.
                          - I'd not waste my time quitting what i was doing, exposing myself at slug pace half across the map carrying a body to throw it over the edge of the world and then try to sneak all the way back to where i was even if i was drunk, on speed (bad combo, don't try it) and promised a BJ after doing it.
                          :? I totally would. I could really enjoy a blowjob right now. Screw TUT, I want blowjobs.
                          www.desertcrisis.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BJ + Perc's avatar = :cry:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              3) This makes the most sence to me. This will eliminate guards TRYING to get koed to get a new loadout. When a human gets koed, he KEEPS the items he used to have. Then when he gets revieved or wakes up and someone spawns into him he has those items the origonal "posessor" had. That way the guards will have no more items available to them then in 1.2, but they wont be able to lose by ko.
                              Sounds reasonable, but I'd hate it if someone would KO me and I'd respawn in 'someone else's AI' and got stuck up with his crappy loadout. So I alter this suggestion to "allways stick with your own loadout leftovers.

                              This should only work for KO'ing though. When the guard actually loses a life (IE: Getting killed, cratering, suiciding), he gets to buy a new loadout... Also, AI should then be as easy to wake up as they are now (except raise autowake up to 10 mins.). For obvious reasons, KO'd guards don't drop their items, since they keep them.


                              OR

                              Revived guards get less loot. Try 400. Or something minimal. Its a punishment for being KOED, but at least theyre alive. They can afford a sword, and a few bolts, a trap or whatever. This will avoid guards getting koed, respawning, buying 6 firebolts, using them, reviving their origonal guard, getting koed, buying 6 firebolts...
                              That'd just mess up loadouts. I thought about it too but dismissed the feature.

                              You get the idea. The guards should be puniished (slightly) for getting koed in the first place, but they should not be able to LOSE by getting koed. We saw more then enough of that in 1.2
                              I totally agree 100%.

                              Tell me what you think...
                              I really liked your 'sticking with the old loadout idea (the red part) except for some alterations. I think it should work, and it wouldn't need alot of coding at all[/quote]

                              HOwabout this: The server keeps track of ko's. After the number of KO's have exceeded the origonal guard count (eg. Folly has 6 guards) Then the server starts peanilizing guards per ko. For example, 6 guards have been koed, but there are still 4 arround because some have been revived. Now the server starts peanilizing the guards loadout cash. It can be on an individual basis, so that even if Chuck gets BJed another 3 times and is only allowed to spawn with 300 loot (which i think should be the minimum) then Berry whos only been koed once will still spawn with 750 loot.

                              SO this is the formla:

                              After (Number OF Koed Guards) is greater then (Number of origonal guards) then Loadouts per players are 850 - 100x where X is the number of times that player has been koed after the (Number of koed Guards) exceeded the (Number of Origonal Guards).

                              I know its confusing but after you work it out it makes a lot of sence... to me anyways.

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