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  • Cheating AI

    Currently, Clever AI guards can:

    Pinpoint noises like they have radar.
    (One noise when they are looking for you will result in them running to you and smashing your skull open with a mace, even when you are invisible.

    See you when you have swallowed an invis potion.
    (This happened so many times that I stopped counting. AI see you, lock on and manage to shoot or smash you when you are a good 5 seconds into your invis and 10 foot away from them.)

    Be on full alert from the getgo.
    (You'd spawn, creep upto an AI (when enjoying spawn invis.) try to KO him and get smashed by an AI before you could even release the charge... like he was expecting you to KO him. This happens all the time and the guards are NEVER alerted. At least in 1.2 they'd be surprised if they bumped into something or something into them, I want that back... noone wants shadowslashing AI. )

    Neve lose track unless the thief went off of the pathnoded area.
    (You'd be seen by an AI, get a bolt in your ass, you'd run like hell for a minute, stop to rest somewhere only to have the AI come run around the corner 10 seconds later, run straight into the shadow to your position and whack you with the mace like he was a goddamn psychic.)

    Disregard speed penalties.
    AI Guards wielding the mace or crossbow run just as fast as guards wielding nothing. This is annoying because I have to chase an AI over half the level before i can give them orders.

    use charged attacks without charging.
    (not only can they do this, they can do so without warning, you dont have to bump into them or turn visible, you'd just enter a certain area in front of the guard and he'll do an uberweaponswitch and whack you in less time than a second... killing you even before the damn speech for [Ima kill you] has finished playing.)

    hang around on alert sites too long.
    (This is a pain for both guards and thieves, because the AI leave their guard positions to run around in shadows for a full minute, and for thieves because they're stuck for so long. Any kind of movement will result in the AI pinpointing your location (even creeping on carpet will) and killing you.)

    Seriously, as a guard it's damn near impossible to get kills now since the AI's are so damn uber. As a guard I'd rather have the 1.2 AI who could fend off when correctly placed instead of these uberthings that don't even require orders to completely own the game... Right now on maps like DE the game is 5 to 16 in favor of the guards just because of the damn AI.

    I'm not saying AI should be stupid, but they need to stop owning. I suggest the admins turn the AI down to normal, so that once again ghosting can be done without AI's (who are not even in the room) suddenly come barging in to smash your skull when youre invisible. And so that once again guard games rely on human skills and strategy rather than running around aimlessly.

    I don't think the wake up feature has anything to do with the imbalance, it rather prevents thieves from using the blackjack in situations where the blackjack wouldn't and shouldn't be used. I rather think the thieves keep losing now because the AI are so damn uber. Any game won by guards will now contain at least 50% AI kills. I'm sure that when the AI's are set back to the level that is most like 1.2, thieves will start winning again, because these bots limit their options, and any form of movement will result in the AI pinpointing them and killing them.

  • #2
    Yeah, Clever AI is too good for all but the highest-skilled thieves.

    And some of their abilities (eg, pinpointing your location from one footstep even while you're invis) are too good for anyone.

    I just hope that the Normal AI retains some of the more intelligent features of the new AI, such as firing a tag bolt at snipers. I'm hoping the Normal AI wouldn't have 100% aim with these tags, just that they fire them in the general area of the thief.

    I've seen several noobs recently who come into the game and get absolutely worked over by the AI. I'm sure it's discouraging for them.

    Right now I think you're right that most of the guard wins are from the AI - if we had the Normal setting on (which is supposedly like 1.2 Genius), sure the AI might be too easy for good thieves, but at least with the wakeup feature guard eliminations still won't happen as much.

    Comment


    • #3
      You obviously lack skills. Find a counter. If you used teamwork you'd win all the time.

      Oh, wait, wrong post. :grin:

      Clever AI is sensibly more doable than Genius, but still has l33t skillz (but as Slappy said, it's not godlike). Someone suggested in a game last night that they should have their vision increased a bit (shameful room clearance because the AI wouldn't see a thief so far away) and have their hearing reduced, so their senses work more like human players'.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mr.K.
        You obviously lack skills. Find a counter. If you used teamwork you'd win all the time.

        Oh, wait, wrong post. :grin:

        Clever AI is sensibly more doable than Genius, but still has l33t skillz (but as Slappy said, it's not godlike). Someone suggested in a game last night that they should have their vision increased a bit (shameful room clearance because the AI wouldn't see a thief so far away) and have their hearing reduced, so their senses work more like human players'.
        If theres an AI somewhere in a dark alley, its impossible to get past him.

        Don't you think that's wrong? In 1.2 you could creep past him, but in 1.3, the AI will either just mace you or light a flare and tag/bolt you to death.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry, mark the first sentence in my post with sarcasm tags if it wasn't evident.

          Yes, i think there's an issue with that. However, one has to measure all the possibilities. Maybe a decoy would help? How often does this situation happen? Would it force the thieves to play in a particular way always (or almost always)?

          I agree that lowering the AI skill in the public servers would be a step forward in player friendliness (even more for the poor newcomers!!). Also, their sound positioning is a tad bit too good (most of the time they shoot you down by hearing, not by sight, which is rather amusing. :| ).

          I think the AI should be turned down until human guards are (in general) just slightly more efficient than AI's, so humans have the main responsability but the AI does help them out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Normal AI is very easy to defeat(by whatever your chosen means happen to be), clever AI are, well, too clever for the average player. A setting somewhere in between them should placate everyone.


            I believe that servers can set a custom AI value:

            ThieveryMod.ini
            [ThieveryMod.ThieveryGameSettings]
            AISkill=# between 0.000000 and 1.000000
            Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd like to see the AI stop cheating. Having good hearing and vision is one thing, having AI cheat like they currently do is just annoying.
              Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

              Comment


              • #8
                As far as the vision thing goes, i think that all goes back to the visibility bug but i have a few ideas for hearing fixes.

                1. The AI does currently have uber Daredevil like hearing, and that has to go, perhaps drop the hearing down one level ie: Genius would now have the hearing of the current Clevers or something like that.

                2. Knockouts shouldnt make so much noise... one of the advantages of KOing over killing is supposed to be that its quieter. A silent KO may even make up for the reviving guards.

                3. I don't know if its even possible in the Unreal engine but, lose the text messages when people are taken out, that way the guards dont know when you've removed their AI so they cant come running immediately. Maybe keep it for kills but remove it for KO's thus adding another advantage to KOing over killing (not really a sound fix but still an idea).
                EDIT: Already True, my bad, ignore this suggestion

                Comment


                • #9
                  Clever AI is a LOT less sensitive than Genius. Since Genius AI are telepaths, this is a good thing. Clever AI are a good compromise; if you have a problem with them, then you might want to consider ghosting or simply getting better at what you do. At least they aren't psychic...
                  TCO – Retired
                  Former TCO Head of Intelligence – Retired

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SNAFU
                    Clever AI is a LOT less sensitive than Genius. Since Genius AI are telepaths, this is a good thing. Clever AI are a good compromise; if you have a problem with them, then you might want to consider ghosting or simply getting better at what you do. At least they aren't psychic...
                    LOL, they're as psychic is psychics can get, my man.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sverrik
                      3. I don't know if its even possible in the Unreal engine but, lose the text messages when people are taken out, that way the guards dont know when you've removed their AI so they cant come running immediately. Maybe keep it for kills but remove it for KO's thus adding another advantage to KOing over killing (not really a sound fix but still an idea).
                      Guards don't see any message when someone gets KOd, only when killed. I'm pretty sure it's been like that since 1.0.
                      Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                        Originally posted by SNAFU
                        Clever AI is a LOT less sensitive than Genius. Since Genius AI are telepaths, this is a good thing. Clever AI are a good compromise; if you have a problem with them, then you might want to consider ghosting or simply getting better at what you do. At least they aren't psychic...
                        LOL, they're as psychic is psychics can get, my man.
                        My experience with CLEVER AI has been with non-psychic guards. GENIUS AI, are the ones that are a bitch...

                        Are you getting the two confused? Or am I just not playing with Clever AI enough to realize they own me?
                        TCO – Retired
                        Former TCO Head of Intelligence – Retired

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My experience with CLEVER AI has been with non-psychic guards. GENIUS AI, are the ones that are a bitch...

                          Are you getting the two confused? Or am I just not playing with Clever AI enough to realize they own me?
                          You'll find out eventually, there's just too many examples to list.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Salvage
                            Normal AI is very easy to defeat(by whatever your chosen means happen to be), clever AI are, well, too clever for the average player. A setting somewhere in between them should placate everyone.


                            I believe that servers can set a custom AI value:

                            ThieveryMod.ini
                            [ThieveryMod.ThieveryGameSettings]
                            AISkill=# between 0.000000 and 1.000000
                            Yes...


                            AISkill=.5 - Normal
                            AISkill=.75 - Clever
                            AISkill=1.0 - Genius

                            Currently Kewl's Server is running a custom AISkill value of .69. Its a little dumber than Clever but not as worthless as Normal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Salvage
                              Originally posted by Sverrik
                              3. I don't know if its even possible in the Unreal engine but, lose the text messages when people are taken out, that way the guards dont know when you've removed their AI so they cant come running immediately. Maybe keep it for kills but remove it for KO's thus adding another advantage to KOing over killing (not really a sound fix but still an idea).
                              Guards don't see any message when someone gets KOd, only when killed. I'm pretty sure it's been like that since 1.0.
                              TRUE

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