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  • just this RLF's opinion

    I've played on crackaz and I don't like the new settings. IMO it gives thieves the power to win by abusing the overpowered BJ, with the mild stipulation that they have to hide the bodies. I agree this makes it harder, but not enough so to keep it from ruining my game like it did before they implimented the KO changes. I agree that the way it was when 1.3 first came out wasn't balanced either, so I don't want that back, but by this patch all a DM thief has to do is dump the body in some water or out in a huge black area (almost every map has one or the other or both) and he's back to winning games on his own just by CSing humans or flash/crack KOing. Personally I'd like to see a timer put on the frob wake up, so that it takes time before they can be awakened, and a longer timer, say 10 or 15 minutes. I really dont' want to go back to having to make sure there's no one playing that ruins my game by just KOing everything in sight before I can join a game.

    This post isn't so much about that. It's more about the fact that before I even posted this I KNEW the general reaction was going to be "STFU noob. learn to counter circle strafing. Stop whining. RLF is a bunch of whiners."

    It is about the fact that the thief community is acting in such a way that it's making the guard community feel like you guys don't care about our gaming, about our opinion on things, since the game is called thievery and not guardery. I'm hoping some ppl will prove me wrong, and use this post to have a conversation about how the wake up feature can be tweaked so that people like me will be happy. But I'm not counting on it.

    pleeeeze prove me wrong. I'm already playing other games now and dont' want to quit because there are so many things about the game that I like, and if you have a conversation with me you'll find I can actually be quite rational.

    (awaits thunderous STFU n00b)

  • #2
    So far, it's only been about 24 hours we've had the settings that way. Let's give it a little more time, maybe?

    Tehy were chosen that way because the sense of DANGER had been removed for guards. There was no penalty for being reckless. With the settings this way, there's a PENALTY for chasing off after a thief in the dark, but little difference over the way 1.3 plays if guards stick to guarding the objectives in well lit areas. In short, guards own the light, and thieves rule the shadows. How it should be.

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    • #3
      Im seeing maps getting dmed on mogs and crackaz again...
      "There's no problem that can't be solved with a big crate!"

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      • #4
        LOL, I won korman with 1 kill and 4 KO's. That's got to say something.

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        • #5
          I don't care about guard wake ups really... what bothers me is how powerful the AIs have become. I'm tired of being seen when I'm in 100% darkness. The fun of this mod for me is outsmarting human players... not having to waste my inventory dealing with god-like AI. With proper positioning of AI you can make a place impossible to get into with out wasting precious gear to somehow get rid of the AI. I've become more of a DMer in certain situations because I HAVE to remove the damn AI if I wanna win within the time limits. AI is pretty damn close to ruining this mod for me... I can learn to deal with it but its just not fun anymore. As much as I hate to say that. As far as wake ups go I think very much the time limit needs to be upped. I personally like the Crackaz settings as it means you have to watch over your AI instead of putting him in a good spot and knowing he'll be able to hold that spot all by himself.


          BTW... what else have you been playing fri?
          "They say we cleaned out the royal treasury, and took the kings wedding ring off his finger as he slept!" "That must have taken an entire team of our best sneaks." "I heard it was lieutenant Jarvis." "Impossible!"
          -Two unknown CTG probies

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          • #6
            Originally posted by -=V12US=-
            LOL, I won korman with 1 kill and 4 KO's. That's got to say something.
            *Ahem*


            I???


            Don't you mean we?
            Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
            "Dream is Destiny"
            Waking Life

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            • #7
              This is getting ridiculous. You cant turn of auto-awake AND set the bots to stupid (and by stupid i mean clever). Although I too complained about the psychotic AI, at least it was a challenge sometimes =\ Hell, it's ever a m,ild challenge for guard. They're being showed up by the AI and are making themselves look foolish, IMO (myself included). Clever = Too easy, Genius = hard BUT managable. And having auto wake off is a good and a bad thing. Good cuz it makes thieves use some strategy as to hiding the bodies, but bad because now the thieves can DM to their hearts content again :?

              I dunno, I liked the settings as they were, both as a guard and as a thief.
              *Leader of the 56k rebellion*
              *Slowing down cable and DSL users, everywhere*

              LikitaRenn:"I wanna be added to as many people's sigs as will add me to... their.. sigs.. um.. something..."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tankazz
                I dunno, I liked the settings as they were, both as a guard and as a thief.
                Sorry, but the settings "as they were" sucked for thief gameplay. Clever does not equal stupid. Even at clever, there are too many things they do that are unintentional bug (see Joel's thread on the subject) that make them too hard. Some players will be able to deal with them, sure, but even on Clever, they're probably too much for most beginning players, and we don't want to discourage them before they even get to know the game.

                I don't agree that frob-only awakens allow thieves to "DM to their heart's content", either. If they're lured off into a dark area, yeah, but they simply should be left alone anyway. This problem occurred in 1.2, but now you can at least awaken them if you're careful about how you use them. And they're still a lot better at Clever than they were at Genius, so there's still a substantial gain for the guards, just not the overwhelming one that 5 minute auto+frob wakeups with Genius AI allowed.

                In any event, we gave 1.3 two weeks at the previous settings. I'm damned well going to give these settings more than 24 hours.

                One more note: Don't compare Crackaz and Mog's right now. Mog has all awakens disabled on his server to test whether the awaken feature is what was causing the crashes and lockups he's been seeing since instaling 1.3. Once he determines that, he'll decide where to go from there.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I quite like it as a Guard having to immediately rescue the AI and strategically position them again-I think the fob-revive is a good thing,if Guards rescue the AI at the start and place them where they can be seen,then theres really no excuse for cries of "Deathmatch Thieves"when they go missing.

                  However,as said above-Korman is VERY different now...it's no longer an easy two door,one-room camp-fest for Guards any longer-it really is a major bit of work for Guards to defend now,and heres a hintThe crypt is easier to Guard than the rectory now)-Guards do really have their work cut out on this one.

                  I've noticed though,Thieves are winning alot on this map-cos Guards have gotten set in their stubborn ways and all keep rushing to the Rectory,forgetting to rescue the AI on the way,theres so many ways to the gems which no one really truely knows the location of that Guarding in this map is no longer a push-over that it previously was.

                  If Guard-auto-revive is brought back then it should really be after a much longer time like 15 minutes at the earliest.

                  Although maps like Korman are very difficult to defend against the DM Thief now,I recently played Guard on Spiders(always a thief-friendly map)and by the Guards immediately positioning the AI all together in vantage spots they all made very short work of all the thieves.
                  And having auto wake off is a good and a bad thing. Good cuz it makes thieves use some strategy as to hiding the bodies, but bad because now the thieves can DM to their hearts content again
                  this is true,but it does make it harder for Thieves to deathmatch-especially when carrying the bodies slows them down and makes them fully visible,I mean they can't all bundle into a room full of AI and take them all out any longer.Not if a human Guard is watching over them.

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                  • #10
                    There are some that know the location of the ruby...without cheating.
                    Kiech

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kiech Bepho
                      There are some that know the location of the ruby...without cheating.
                      LOL Kiech.
                      The only constant is change.
                      (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kiech Bepho
                        There are some that know the location of the ruby...without cheating.
                        LMAO!!

                        "Special system configuration"

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                        • #13
                          I find guarding to be bad enough to stop me from playing for the night at this setting. Especially if the screwed up team balance makes me guard several maps in a row.

                          If it's not fun for me then it most likely isn't fun for others.
                          Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by poe
                            I've played on crackaz and I don't like the new settings. IMO it gives thieves the power to win by abusing the overpowered BJ, with the mild stipulation that they have to hide the bodies. I agree this makes it harder, but not enough so to keep it from ruining my game like it did before they implimented the KO changes. I agree that the way it was when 1.3 first came out wasn't balanced either, so I don't want that back, but by this patch all a DM thief has to do is dump the body in some water or out in a huge black area (almost every map has one or the other or both) and he's back to winning games on his own just by CSing humans or flash/crack KOing. Personally I'd like to see a timer put on the frob wake up, so that it takes time before they can be awakened, and a longer timer, say 10 or 15 minutes. I really dont' want to go back to having to make sure there's no one playing that ruins my game by just KOing everything in sight before I can join a game.

                            This post isn't so much about that. It's more about the fact that before I even posted this I KNEW the general reaction was going to be "STFU noob. learn to counter circle strafing. Stop whining. RLF is a bunch of whiners."

                            It is about the fact that the thief community is acting in such a way that it's making the guard community feel like you guys don't care about our gaming, about our opinion on things, since the game is called thievery and not guardery. I'm hoping some ppl will prove me wrong, and use this post to have a conversation about how the wake up feature can be tweaked so that people like me will be happy. But I'm not counting on it.

                            pleeeeze prove me wrong. I'm already playing other games now and dont' want to quit because there are so many things about the game that I like, and if you have a conversation with me you'll find I can actually be quite rational.

                            (awaits thunderous STFU n00b)
                            While I thought that 1.3 when it forst came out was unbalanced I tend
                            to agree with you on some of this.
                            Even though i said it was Thievery not Guardery, that was mainly because
                            Mad gerbil wasn't listening to us either.
                            As I thought about things and what was bothering me about Gameplay
                            it occured to me that it wasn't the AI wakeup that was the biggest problem
                            in fact may not be the problem at all.
                            The biggest hangup for me(and quite a few others too judging by the posts)
                            was the AI godlike abilities, quite a few of which it turns out are bugs,
                            (thanks El Joelio for clearing that up)
                            My opinion only mind you but it seems to me that things could be a bit more
                            balanced if we brought back the AI wakeup (while incresing the time a bit 5
                            minutes was too short), and getting AI to clever or a bit below that.
                            Kewlazme is running a server with just such settings, maybe you could try
                            his server poe?

                            Ultimately if I seemed a little too harsh in my criticisms before I apologize,
                            I think the goal here is to have a game the is balanced and fun for all
                            including Guards.

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                            • #15
                              Guards should wake up, IMHO, just not after 5 min.
                              Kiech

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