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  • Why there are so many "thief" maps.

    After todays scrimage I was a wee bit perplexed that we had lost the first round, especially after I had assured my team there was no way for the thieves to win Nostalgia without taking either the lyre or the main gallery loot. I knew there were loot spawn issues, but since the map was set to 100% dropped loot I wasn't worried.

    Dalia has identified the bug that caused the problem. (see bug board)

    If a thief drops 1,000 loot the guard will return the loot BUT a few minutes later the code was returning another 1,000 loot so that 2,000 loot would spawn. I tested this today on Nostalgia (100% droprate).

    I collected loot, died, quickly returned to my body and collected the little bags... I collected all the loot I dropped when I died. Then, a few minutes later the entire amount started to respawn again.

    I had doubled the amount of loot on the map.

    This explain SO many games I've played to date. You know the ones where you kill some ultra skilled thief with 1500 loot only to have the loot objective completed a moment later. So you kill that guy and before you know it all the remaining thieves have tons of loot and doors on apartments are busting open and silver chalices are falling out of the sky and there is no way in hell to stop the thieves from getting all the loot they need to win because even if you see them you trip over gold bars trying to chase them down and it errupts into a big coin fight.

    I'm thinking that alot of thief maps are going to become much easier to guard when thieves have to go and actually get loot from every nook and cranny instead of Uber_Thief dying and the result being the generation of enough loot for every thief to complete the objective.

    The way things are now, even with 100 percent loot drop, every time you kill a thief you've just taken the amount of loot he's dropped and returned TWICE that amount to the spawns. This has been a MAJOR point of frustration for me (I've seen the treasury and rooftops of Flats UNTOUCHED and the thieves still win with tons of loot).

    I think this fix is going to require a VERY, VERY skilled set of thieves to pull off wins on what were formally easy thief maps.

    I think it will have other effects on the game as well.

    1) I think that it will take a great deal of pressure off camping "the ruby" or "the chalic" since every bit of loot is going to become significant. We may end up with guards spread out more.

    2) I think thieves are going to have to coordinate thier efforts even more. With this change I think gone are the days where 1 thief grabs 1800 loot near the end of the game. Multiple thieves will need to be able to escape.

    3) I think thieves who've gotten used to how easy things are with the flawed loot code are going to be raisin' hell on these boards. This may signal the end of the aggressive DM thief since every thief death will take on new significance. I'm confident Wild Bill and his Bois will evolve, but I think some DM'ers are gonna go the way of the doo-doo or become guards.

    I'm excited about these changes because I think thievin' should be very hard. It's a beautiful thing when a thief snatches loot right from under a gaurds nose. I think the game is gonna be tough, but I also look forward to some incredible creativity and style from the thieves that stick with it.

    If you would of played in the match today, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.
    "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

  • #2
    This isn't the only thing about 1.3 that'll make things harder for the thieves!

    Muahahaaa!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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    • #3
      HOoooHOoooo Dalai have something against thiefs ... we are DOOOMM I TELL YA DOOOOMMM ...hehe not(I only hope... )
      Now DM time !!! :swordthi:
      :grin:
      [KYO] - Knock You Out

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      • #4
        Dalia has identified the bug that caused the problem. (see bug board)
        So glad Dalia could help...

        This explain SO many games I've played to date. You know the ones where you kill some ultra skilled thief with 1500 loot only to have the loot objective completed a moment later. So you kill that guy and before you know it all the remaining thieves have tons of loot and doors on apartments are busting open and silver chalices are falling out of the sky and there is no way in hell to stop the thieves from getting all the loot they need to win because even if you see them you trip over gold bars trying to chase them down and it errupts into a big coin fight.
        This is the funniest thing I have ever read from you Gerbil.

        I Can't see how the loot is so difficult... the way I see it the game should keep track of what particular loot items you steal and then spawn them back instantly when the loot is returned by a guard... Say if I steal items worth 100, 50, 10 & 10.

        When killed, I would drop 2 bags, one worth 100 (one item) and one worth 70 (three items). etc.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dalai
          This isn't the only thing about 1.3 that'll make things harder for the thieves!

          Muahahaaa!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
          MG I think we should give Dalai an honourary membership :grin:
          I Need Training!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The_Judge
            Originally posted by Dalai
            This isn't the only thing about 1.3 that'll make things harder for the thieves!

            Muahahaaa!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
            MG I think we should give Dalai an honourary membership :grin:
            Dont forget. It's harder for guards also
            On demand this signature has been changed. I hope nobody was insulted or got harmed due to my signature. If this is the case, I'm fully responsible for the harm that was done. Do you feel harmed or you simply want a listening ear?

            Call 0900-PHAE

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            • #7
              Personally, I always thought that loot respawning is not only unrealistic, but also completely unnecessary to game balance, too. If a thief dies and drops his loot, it should stay there until someone picks it up. And if a guard picks it up, he should keep it on his person until he is BJ-d or killed. I don't see what would be wrong with such a system.

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              • #8
                I think that would force ghoster to BJ, but it also makes it even harder which could be fun. But if you take in mind the current human players, I don't think it would be a good idea.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Arrowgrab
                  Personally, I always thought that loot respawning is not only unrealistic, but also completely unnecessary to game balance, too. If a thief dies and drops his loot, it should stay there until someone picks it up. And if a guard picks it up, he should keep it on his person until he is BJ-d or killed. I don't see what would be wrong with such a system.
                  we tried it in internal betas back before the release of 1.0, it didn't work - it led to a guard having so much loot that the thieves couldn't win, and either they had to kill him, or he could kill himself in some impossible-to-get-to way, and make it literally impossible for thieves to get the loot back.
                  I'm not so bad... Once you get to know me.

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                  • #10
                    I'm sure you guys have already come up with a great fix. I just wanted to add my suggestion for my own ego.

                    So what about making dropped loot from thieves not loot able for guards? Like the objectives are? Seems like it would fix the problem. Loot never respawns, and it's up to the thief not to die in a place that would be too hard to get the loot back.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thwark
                      Originally posted by Arrowgrab
                      Personally, I always thought that loot respawning is not only unrealistic, but also completely unnecessary to game balance, too. If a thief dies and drops his loot, it should stay there until someone picks it up. And if a guard picks it up, he should keep it on his person until he is BJ-d or killed. I don't see what would be wrong with such a system.
                      we tried it in internal betas back before the release of 1.0, it didn't work - it led to a guard having so much loot that the thieves couldn't win, and either they had to kill him, or he could kill himself in some impossible-to-get-to way, and make it literally impossible for thieves to get the loot back.
                      It's like Dalai read my mind or something.

                      *DOH*

                      *slips Arrowgrab $50 for making the suggestion for him*
                      "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

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                      • #12
                        When this is fixed life is going to become much harder for thieves...
                        Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mad_Gerbil
                          After todays scrimage I was a wee bit perplexed that we had lost the first round, especially after I had assured my team there was no way for the thieves to win Nostalgia without taking either the lyre or the main gallery loot. I knew there were loot spawn issues, but since the map was set to 100% dropped loot I wasn't worried.
                          Isn't that a bit presumptuous?

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                          • #14
                            No.
                            www.desertcrisis.com

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                            • #15
                              Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:08 pm Post subject: Why there are so many "thief" maps.

                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              After todays scrimage I was a wee bit perplexed that we had lost the first round, especially after I had assured my team there was no way for the thieves to win.


                              Ok let me clarify. No its not presumptuous, to think you have that map won. Ok gee, don't know what I was thinking then.

                              As in life, never say never.

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