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DM Thief Smackdown

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  • DM Thief Smackdown

    NOTE: Those of you who saw this game, please leave the name of the thief unmentioned since I'm not here to dog out a player, but rather, a play-style.
    ************************************************** **************

    Game: Aquatone Classic
    Guard: Mad_Gerbil
    Thief: [unnamed]

    My general impression going into the game was that the thief in question was notoriously DM. However, Aquatone is one of the easier maps to guard so I purchased a firebolt free loadout.

    Thirty-seconds into the game I was KO'd and since it was obviously going to go the route of the DM I purchased my DM thief killer loadout (read: firebolts). An additional 20 seconds later and the thief was dead.

    Where the game gets interesting is that the rest of the thief lives were lost in attempts to KO me in fully lit hallways. After the intial kill I pulled AI and myself back to the hallway near the guest quarters where the thief would show up seconds after spawning and attempt 2-3 flashbomb KOs.

    Most of the encounters resulted in me getting KO'd while the thief would die from fire seconds after I hit the ground. Based on those last series of encounters when the game ended (guards win) I was treated to the following comment (paraphrase) "I owned you" and "I can see why people get angry about firebolts" and "they should be limited to two".

    Here is what the thief did WRONG:
    1) Nearly all KO attempts were in broad daylight with a reliance on flashbombs. This made him easy to hit with firebolts because I'd just aim at my feet and know that he was close enough to get splash.

    2) The thief continued for the KO even though we were on Crackaz where I can frob the guards to wake them. The KO strategy was inexplicable on this point alone.

    3) Even after KO'ing me, the thief wouldn't pull out a water arrow and extinguish the flames....thereby dying as much as 10 seconds later.

    4) The thief would KO me even after I was out of firebolts. I guess he wanted me to have free firebolts? I'd just wake the KO vicitim and move on.

    5) Even though the APO and Directors Quarters were completely unprotected (few dumb AI) I never had to go looking for the thief since he'd just charge me in the hallway. His last 4 lives were lost in the same exact area. I wouldn't leave the area and upon KO would rush to that spot knowing he'd be back.

    The thing is that the thief is skilled enough with the BJ that winning Aquatone would have been a rather simple thing. This is why I've always considered DM thieves to be unskilled since the fascination with the BJ completely rules out the use of common sense. (For a skilled thief that ghosts see any member of Wraiths, for skilled thieves that BJ, see just about any member of CTG. Neither of these groups fear my firebolts)

    Now comments at the end of the game were interesting:

    "I owed you" (paraphrase)
    Even though the thief LOST the game he considered it a win because of KOs. Obviously the objective is KOs, not objectives. The objective isn't to play the game but stroke ones e-penis by KOing.

    "Firebolts should be limited to two"
    This coming from a person who was repeatedly using a free weapon for a single stroke kill. I guess I should have NO defense when being attacked in a well lit hallway?

    "I can see why people get angry about firebolts"
    Even though holding back on the KOs would have left me without a weapon (eventually) OR simplying using flashbombs for escape (instead of cycling through all three while attempting to KO) the problem in this guys mind is the firebolt.

    In short, if you are a DM thief and you get owned in a well lit hallway time and time again by full Gerbil Style(tm) firebolt loadouts you are pretty much getting what you deserve.

    T'aint the games fault.
    T'aint the gerbs fault.
    Its on jOo.
    "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

  • #2
    PAWNED!
    The only constant is change.
    (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

    Comment


    • #3
      That was a funny round.


      Even after myself and other spectators commented on the thief giving the guard free firebolts, the thief continued to ko the guard.
      Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Salvage
        That was a funny round.


        Even after myself and other spectators commented on the thief giving the guard free firebolts, the thief continued to ko the guard.
        They never learn

        Comment


        • #5
          Tell us the name of this thief so we may point and laugh at him.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have to say that when I saw the topic of this thread, and read the opening lines, I was expecting another whiny rant from Gerb about DM'ing. Turns out not to be the case. Instead there's a rather rational account about his superior tactics in facing the situation he faced, and his opponent's inability to see the flaw in his own strategy and adjust accordingly. Even with comment by the spectators he was unable to see his own foolishness.

            Comment


            • #7
              Good post Gerbs.

              I'm a DMer and not afraid to admit it, BUT! I try to use a little more common sense and stealth (note: TRY). I sit and shadows and wait for the little Gerbils and such to go by, and whack them on the head. THen I hide the body quickly, grab stuff, and move on.

              If I must confront a guard in light, I will use my resources.


              Its DMing, but its not senseless and useless, either.
              Garlisk's Fantasy Art Gallery
              www.usyetzer.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Garlisk
                Good post Gerbs.

                I'm a DMer and not afraid to admit it, BUT! I try to use a little more common sense and stealth (note: TRY). I sit and shadows and wait for the little Gerbils and such to go by, and whack them on the head. THen I hide the body quickly, grab stuff, and move on.

                If I must confront a guard in light, I will use my resources.


                Its DMing, but its not senseless and useless, either.
                Well that is the sad part, Garlisk.
                The .:m know how to DM a round in that you won't even see those guys until all the AI are DEAD. That way, when they blow 3 flashbombs knocking you out (or you burn yourself to death) you ain't coming back.
                "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

                Comment


                • #9
                  You see, when I do things like that (except I don't really, I do them a lot smarter...) I EXPECT the firespamming. If I'm gonna screw around, I expect to be screwed around with too.
                  The only constant is change.
                  (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mad_Gerbil
                    Well that is the sad part, Garlisk.
                    The .:m know how to DM a round in that you won't even see those guys until all the AI are DEAD. That way, when they blow 3 flashbombs knocking you out (or you burn yourself to death) you ain't coming back.
                    Isn't that the kind of skillful, teamwork-based DM'ing you said you didn't mind, though? You HAD said at one point that you didn't object to DM'ing outright, as long as it required skill and teamwork, the way guarding does.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LaughingRat
                      Originally posted by Mad_Gerbil
                      Well that is the sad part, Garlisk.
                      The .:m know how to DM a round in that you won't even see those guys until all the AI are DEAD. That way, when they blow 3 flashbombs knocking you out (or you burn yourself to death) you ain't coming back.
                      Isn't that the kind of skillful, teamwork-based DM'ing you said you didn't mind, though? You HAD said at one point that you didn't object to DM'ing outright, as long as it required skill and teamwork, the way guarding does.
                      About two weeks ago I was playing and there was a skilled BJ'er in an area of total darkness. I kept going after him and I got BJ'd about 5 times. As frustrating as that was, I couldn't legitimately complain because in total darkness the thief and his BJ should own.

                      Likewise, in total light the guard should own.

                      As for team BJ work, I'm not really on board with that. In circumstances where you have full teams it makes sense (especially on a server with frob wake up) but it is VERY frustrating when its a low population game and there isn't much a guard player can do but watch the AI disappear. (It gets really bad when the thieves snipe because they can create noise where the AI comes out, sit on a rooftop nearly invunerable and score 1 or 2 shot kills)

                      Sometimes a BJ (even teamwork BJs) are very necessary for the thieves to have any chance whatsoever. However, the typical BJ whore isn't the one capable of pulling that off since teamwork isn't anything they've praticed.

                      I won't make much of a stink about teamwork at this point since I don't have a team. However, I do hold the fantasy in my mind that the equalizing of thief vs. guard wins in the last couple of months has more to do with the absence of good guard teamwork (ala RLF) and less to do with changes to the game.

                      Teamwork will always be UBER in my mind, thieves that use it don't need to DM.
                      "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree on the light = guards own, dark = thieves own thing. And I like a bit of teamwork DMing too. Sometimes when it turns into a DM fest on DE, I'll tell my team to keep DMing out there while the guards are poking their heads out the door. Then I'll sneak around and KO the guards from behind.
                        The only constant is change.
                        (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'd like to say that when I play, I avoid AI (pretty easy) and nearly all my kills/KOs are on humans.

                          And just because i'm a mocker doesn't mean i'm any less of a guard. Ill still challenge any DMer to DM me. I like DMers. This game has enough downtime and boringness without NOT worrying about getting KOed.
                          (I think I used a dbl negative...I'm not sure. That sentence doesn't sound right, but I think you get what i'm saying.)
                          Garlisk's Fantasy Art Gallery
                          www.usyetzer.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Garlisk,

                            I don't think getting a couple of KOs in a round makes you a DM thief.
                            "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The blackjack is lame and overpowered sometimes. That's why I use a sword
                              Nightwarden,
                              .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
                              - "Earth dons the red; calls the maggots."

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