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  • death penalty

    why is the death penalty good? Help me out here please. :swordthi: :wink: ldhat:
    I have sex with my hand!

  • #2
    Who painted the target on this poor bastard?
    Nightmaster,
    .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
    - "until the cat is skinned"

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    • #3
      i dunno but help me out here.
      I have sex with my hand!

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      • #4
        HomeSkillet, don't ask us to do your homework.

        Death penalty is good because one can serve as an example to another. Also, those criminals in prison that have no chance of learning their lessons cost a lot to maintain in the prisons. If they are dead, they aren't costing much more anymore, are they?
        JM

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        • #5
          Not to mention that some sickos don't deserve to draw breath.

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          • #6
            There are many who die who deserve life, and many who live that deserve death...
            ~TuF~

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TheMachine
              There are many who die who deserve life, and many who live that deserve death...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Starship Troopers, by Robert A. Heinlein, Chapter 8
                But we had another case, much worse than mine or Ted Hendrick’s — a really sick-making one. Once they erected gallows.

                Now, look, get this straight. This case didn’t really have anything to do with the Army. The crime didn’t take place at Camp Currie and the placement officer who accepted this boy for M. I. should turn in his
                suit.

                He deserted, only two days after we arrived at Currie. Ridiculous, of course, but nothing about the case made sense — why didn’t he resign? Desertion, naturally, is one of the "thirty-one crash landings" but the
                Army doesn’t invoke the death penalty for it unless there are special circumstances, such as "in the face of the enemy" or something else that turns it from a highly informal way of resigning into something that
                can’t be ignored.

                The Army makes no effort to find deserters and bring them back. This makes the hardest kind of sense. We’re all volunteers; we’re M. I. because we want to be, we’re proud to be M. I. and the M. I. is proud of
                us. If a man doesn’t feel that way about it, from his callused feet to his hairy ears, I don’t want him on my flank when trouble starts. If I buy a piece of it, I want men around me who will pick me up because
                they’re M. I. and I’m M. I. and my skin means as much to them as their own. I don’t want any ersatz soldiers, dragging their tails and ducking out when the party gets rough. It’s a whole lot safer to have a
                blank file on your flank than to have an alleged soldier who is nursing the "conscript" syndrome. So if they run, let ‘em run; it’s a waste of time and money to fetch them back.

                Of course most of them do come back, though it may take them years — in which case the Army tiredly lets them have their fifty lashes instead of hanging them, and turns them loose. I suppose it must wear on
                a man’s nerves to be a fugitive when everybody else is either a citizen or a legal resident, even when the police aren’t trying to find him. "The wicked flee when no man pursueth." The temptation to turn yourself
                in, take your lumps, and breathe easily again must get to be overpowering.

                But this boy didn’t turn himself in. He was gone four months and I doubt if his own company remembered him, since he had been with them only a couple of days; he was probably just a name without a face, the "Dillinger, N. L." who had to be reported, day after day, as absent without leave on the morning muster.

                Then he killed a baby girl.

                He was tried and convicted by a local tribunal but identity check showed that he was an undischarged soldier; the Department had to be notified and our commanding general at once intervened. He was
                returned to us, since military law and jurisdiction take precedence over civil code. Why did the general bother? Why didn’t he let the local sheriff do the job?

                In order to "teach us a lesson"?

                Not at all. I’m quite sure that our general did not think that any of his boys needed to be nauseated in order not to kill any baby girls. By now I believe that he would have spared us the sight — had it been
                possible.

                We did learn a lesson, though nobody mentioned it at the time and it is one that takes a long time to sink in until it becomes second nature:
                The M. I. take care of their own — no matter what.

                Dillinger belonged to us, he was still on our rolls. Even though we didn’t want him, even though we should never have had him, even though we would have been happy to disclaim him, he was a member of
                our regiment. We couldn’t brush him off and let a sheriff a thousand miles away handle it. If it has to be done, a man — a real man — shoots his own dog himself; he doesn’t hire a proxy who may bungle it.
                The regimental records said that Dillinger was ours, so taking care of him was our duty.

                That evening we marched to the parade grounds at slow march, sixty beats to the minute (hard to keep step, when you’re used to a hundred and forty), while the band played "Dirge for the Unmourned." Then
                Dillinger was marched out, dressed in M. I. full dress just as we were, and the band played "Danny Deever" while they stripped off every trace of insignia, even buttons and cap, leaving him in a maroon
                and light blue suit that was no longer a uniform. The drums held a sustained roll and it was all over.

                We passed in review and on home at a fast trot I don’t think anybody fainted and I don’t think anybody quite got sick, even though most of us didn’t eat much dinner that night and I’ve never heard the mess
                tent so quiet. But, grisly as it was (it was the first time I had seen death, first time for most of us), it was not the shock that Ted Hendrick’s flogging was — I mean, you couldn’t put yourself in Dillinger’s place; you didn’t have any feeling of: "It could have been me." Not counting the technical matter of desertion, Dillinger had committed at least four capital crimes; if his victim had lived, he still would have danced Danny Deever for any one of the other three — kidnapping, demand of ransom, criminal neglect, etc.

                I had no sympathy for him and still haven’t. That old saw about "To understand all is to forgive all" is a lot of tripe. Some things, the more you understand the more you loathe them. My sympathy is reserved
                for Barbara Anne Enthwaite whom I had never seen, and for her parents, who would never again see their little girl.

                As the band put away their instruments that night we started thirty days of mourning for Barbara and of disgrace for us, with our colors draped in black, no music at parade, no singing on route march. Only
                once did I hear anybody complain and another boot promptly asked him how he would like a full set of lumps? Certainly, it hadn’t been our fault — but our business was to guard little girls, not kill them. Our
                regiment had been dishonored; we had to clean it. We were disgraced and we felt disgraced.

                That night I tried to figure out how such things could be kept from happening. Of course, they hardly ever do nowadays — but even once is ‘way too many. I never did reach an answer that satisfied me. This
                Dillinger — he looked like anybody else, and his behavior and record couldn’t have been too odd or he would never have reached Camp Currie in the first place. I suppose he was one of those pathological
                personalities you read about — no way to spot them.

                Well, if there was no way to keep it from happening once, there was only one sure way to keep it from happening twice. Which we had used.

                If Dillinger had understood what he was doing (which seemed incredible) then he got what was coming to him . . . except that it seemed a shame that he hadn’t suffered as much as had little Barbara Anne — he
                practically hadn’t suffered at all.

                But suppose, as seemed more likely, that he was so crazy that he had never been aware that he was doing anything wrong? What then?

                Well, we shoot mad dogs, don’t we?

                Yes, but being crazy that way is a sickness — I couldn’t see but two possibilities. Either he couldn’t be made well — in which case he was better dead for his own sake and for the safety of others — or he could be treated and made sane. In which case (it seemed to me) if he ever became sane enough for civilized society . . . and thought over what he had done while he was "sick" — what could be left for him but suicide? How could he live with himself?

                And suppose he escaped before he was cured and did the same thing again? And maybe again? How do you explain that to bereaved parents? In view of his record?

                I couldn’t see but one answer
                Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lurox

                  Death penalty is good because one can serve as an example to another.
                  No. There is no direct link
                  Originally posted by Lurox
                  Also, those criminals in prison that have no chance of learning their lessons cost a lot to maintain in the prisons. If they are dead, they aren't costing much more anymore, are they?
                  No, a death penalty costs all in much more than "normal" prisoners.
                  Deftones

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                  • #10
                    OMG someone lock this thread quick!
                    (This was discussed last month, give us all a break)
                    Feel the power of the

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                    • #11
                      Oh well, Seemann, at least I tried.
                      JM

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                      • #12
                        Deftones

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                        • #13
                          Incorrect on two counts.

                          Originally posted by Lurox
                          Death penalty is good because one can serve as an example to another.
                          Every study ever done on the subject has shown that capital punishment does not act as a deterrent to crime. In many cases, it's been found crime actually increases when capital punishment is instituted.

                          Originally posted by Lurox
                          Also, those criminals in prison that have no chance of learning their lessons cost a lot to maintain in the prisons. If they are dead, they aren't costing much more anymore, are they?
                          I can't speak for other countries here, but in the US, with the number of appeals a deathrow offender is required by law to have (and which, when one's life is at stake are quite reasonable), the monetary cost to the government to execute someone is actually higher than imprisoning him for life.

                          Factually, execution of criminals serves no purpose other than revenge. Even that's suspect, as the families of victims often say afterward that they've received no satisfaction or sense of closure from the felon's execution.

                          My personal opinion is that if you want to make someone suffer for some crime they've committed, then life in prison without parole is a far crueler thing to do to them than executing them. An entire lifetime of oppressive existence, with no hope of release? That's my vision of Hell itself.

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                          • #14
                            Deport all criminals to Rosenburg's Asylum.

                            That'll teach 'em! *shakes fist*

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                            • #15
                              why not make them all join the army- thats almost the same After all then the murder is called war and that makes it legal (please detect the subtle sarcasm in this post)
                              [E.D.G] "Eaves Droppers Guild - we're on the edge."

                              All New Thievery-O's!

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