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Maybe TUT needs some sort of "Knigge" =/

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  • Maybe TUT needs some sort of "Knigge" =/

    Well, with emotions flying high and accusings of laming/lame tactics etc. popping up left and right, i think maybe the TUT-Community should work out some "official rules of playing" to stop this stuff. Its a small community and most likely same players will meet more than once and if such stuff keeps happening they'll only get mader and mader at each others till all goes down. Here are my suggestions :


    Firespamming :

    I think generally more than one arrow for the same thief is ridicolous. Exeptions may be very small guard team vs. large thief team.

    Objective Stacking :

    I believe there is no stacking which cant be countered. As long as it aint 30 crates and 10 AIs stuffed into one spot its Ok i think, everyone should be able to judge when the limit is met. If its only one thief left the stacking should be reduced though.

    Dropped Stuff :

    The one making the KO/Kill "owns" the dropped stuff. Exeptions may be if its for example loot dropped in a dangerous spot which needs to be collected fast.

    Spawnraping/Spawncamping :

    Guards have no business being in the Thieves Spawn area when a game is still "running". Guarding the exit to prevent escaping when loot/objective-goals are done is OK.

    Doorblocking :

    When a Thief manages to get himself trapped in a room with the only door blocked by a guard he just screwed. Nothing a Crack or Flashbomb couldnt handle. If the Thief hasnt got any - like i said : screwed >=p

    Ropeblocking :

    Its so rare it doesnt really matter IMHO. If the trapped guard cant be liberated by teammates, the rope should be removed after a while though if it doesnt put the Thief doing this in danger

    Flashbombspamming :

    One for one guard should be enough. More should only be used in situations against several guards or if the first one missed. Id consider getting more than one Flashbomb in my face an (lame) attempt to DM since the time while the Flashbomb has effect is more than enough to get away, even after a missed KO. Exeptions may be if its only one Thief left

    Combined use of Crack and Sword :

    Swording a cracked guard takes time and that means a risk to the Thief doing this. So hm, well not very stylish but Ok i think.

    Exploiting Map Bugs :

    Boo!

    DMing in General :

    Winning by Objectives should be the first priority. A Thief running around the Level only going after guards isnt quite in the Spirit of TUT. Dont get me wrong, i think Dming takes skill and practice, but i think it even doubles the amount of annoyance if a "normal" game is played and all sudden a "Pro" busts in and starts wasting everybody. Not to mention if a unskilled player wastes lives trying to DM. Exeptions may be if its on special Servers, limitedly used for distraction or if everybody on a Server agreed to have a "DM-Game".

    Winning - KOing/Killing a lot:

    Dont gloat, thats all

    Loosing - being KOed/Killed a lot :

    Be a sport, everybody hates to loose, but remember when you win others loose (duh) and you wouldnt like being insulted because you win, eh? If you feel you cant take it anymore and want to leave drop at least a line like "not my day, cu" (or the like) instead of just dusting off like a "real" looser. Blaming Lag isnt very "honorable" too, IMHO (Exeptions may be if yer really lagging ^^)


    Uh, Amen. My thoughts for some rules which should make playing TUT a better experience. And if im just pessimistic and all is fine in TUT-Land, forget it ^^
    My leet Thievery Map
    My leet UT3 Map
    My leet AS Map

  • #2
    amen?
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    • #3
      When someone sword thiefs it takes the fun right out of the game for me. I'll either spectate excessively or leave.
      Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Schleicher
        i think maybe the TUT-Community should work out some "official rules of playing"
        Gosh Schleicher I really hate to tell you this, but I think that everyone agreeing on the rules is next to impossible. I just don't really see that happening. There are too many varying opinions out there (which is good IMHO). Diversity in general is a good thing.
        You can check out anytime you like, but you can NEVER leave.

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        • #5
          Just some suggestions :grin:
          My leet Thievery Map
          My leet UT3 Map
          My leet AS Map

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          • #6
            Having rules won't make a difference. No-one will follow them anyway. There will be a few good and nice people who will though, but the majority will trow the rules away like a piece of old paper. But for the sake of the thread, here's my view on the points

            Firespamming :

            I think generally more than one arrow for the same thief is ridicolous. Exeptions may be very small guard team vs. large thief team.
            It's cheap ( Read: Lame ) if guards firespam a thief. Sure it's fun for a time or two ... but doing it in every game you play, making it your playstyle ... nah, that stinks. Like I said, it's cheap and skillless ... two things I don't like in a game.

            Objective Stacking :

            I believe there is no stacking which cant be countered. As long as it aint 30 crates and 10 AIs stuffed into one spot its Ok i think, everyone should be able to judge when the limit is met. If its only one thief left the stacking should be reduced though.
            Stacking is fine till a certain level. Stacking an object with bodies, chests and whistlers is a nono for me. A few objects, maybe even cleverly placing objects around it, making it harder for the thief to choose between which pile the object he's looking after is under. But Stacking with more then 5 objects, stacking with a chest or whistler on a small object, stacking with bolts is in my "What not to do" book.

            Dropped Stuff :

            The one making the KO/Kill "owns" the dropped stuff. Exeptions may be if its for example loot dropped in a dangerous spot which needs to be collected fast.
            I hate it when people do this, stealing away your stuff while you have the body in your hands. I sometimes steal stuff from someone elses kill if I need a certain pot, like I'm on low health or when I really need a speed. I also steal if I know people lack the decency to follow this unwritten rule ... then I'll steal as much as posible because if (s)he does it to others , (s)he should get the same treatment.

            Spawnraping/Spawncamping :

            Guards have no business being in the Thieves Spawn area when a game is still "running". Guarding the exit to prevent escaping when loot/objective-goals are done is OK.
            When I see a thief spawn, or hide in the shadow after he just spawned I pretend not to notice, even though the thief was clearly visible. If (s)he atacks ME then i'll atack the thief too. So if you spawned, and I don't make a mistake or you atack me, you're safe with me. People who spawnrape are cheap and lack humanity. Same goes for people who rush to the shadow under the thieves spawn, in bourgeois. I consider that spawnraping too.

            Doorblocking :

            When a Thief manages to get himself trapped in a room with the only door blocked by a guard he just screwed. Nothing a Crack or Flashbomb couldnt handle. If the Thief hasnt got any - like i said : screwed >=p
            Doorblocking with a human body or chest / whistler stinks, if the goal is to keep thieves out. If however a thief is trapped inside a room, I don't mind. But to doorblock on a map like Breakout or gerome ... that simply stinks big time. ( Read: Lame, cheap and skillless )
            Ropeblocking :

            Its so rare it doesnt really matter IMHO. If the trapped guard cant be liberated by teammates, the rope should be removed after a while though if it doesnt put the Thief doing this in danger
            I've yet to see a situation where thieves do this to a guard, (s)he can't take another route or pull the vine out.

            Flashbombspamming :

            One for one guard should be enough. More should only be used in situations against several guards or if the first one missed. Id consider getting more than one Flashbomb in my face an (lame) attempt to DM since the time while the Flashbomb has effect is more than enough to get away, even after a missed KO. Exeptions may be if its only one Thief left
            I've rarely had this situation myself. If the flashbombs are used to DM ... it's quite cheap. If used to escape then it's ok. Sometimes trowing 2 flashbombs is more save too, sometimes a flashbomb does not hit correctly.

            Combined use of Crack and Sword :

            Swording a cracked guard takes time and that means a risk to the Thief doing this. So hm, well not very stylish but Ok i think.
            Skillless, cheap

            Exploiting Map Bugs :

            Boo!
            Agreed on a certain point. There are "accepted" map exploits, morely shortcuts for thieves and guards. However there are nasty bug exploits out there. People who abuse those should be hanged on their legs and recieve 100 slaps with a rotten fish. Sometimes people say the exploit is "legal" or "accepted" though while it is not. You can clearly see those people have different standards.

            DMing in General :

            Winning by Objectives should be the first priority. A Thief running around the Level only going after guards isnt quite in the Spirit of TUT. Dont get me wrong, i think Dming takes skill and practice, but i think it even doubles the amount of annoyance if a "normal" game is played and all sudden a "Pro" busts in and starts wasting everybody. Not to mention if a unskilled player wastes lives trying to DM. Exeptions may be if its on special Servers, limitedly used for distraction or if everybody on a Server agreed to have a "DM-Game".
            DMing is anoying and make me angry. It's a playstyle which is somewhat accepted ... and I don't condamn people for this, unless it's done in a normal way. ( Read: No lame tactics [ aka flash / crack / invis / speed / lag KOers or killers ] )
            Winning - KOing/Killing a lot:

            Dont gloat, thats all
            See above

            Loosing - being KOed/Killed a lot :

            Be a sport, everybody hates to loose, but remember when you win others loose (duh) and you wouldnt like being insulted because you win, eh? If you feel you cant take it anymore and want to leave drop at least a line like "not my day, cu" (or the like) instead of just dusting off like a "real" looser. Blaming Lag isnt very "honorable" too, IMHO (Exeptions may be if yer really lagging ^^)
            I can take my loss, if done in a fair way. If I am loosing for several times, by cheap ways ( read: DMing with lame tactics / Guards who firebolts constantly / objective stack horribly / exploits ) then I'll get mad for sure. I mostly just leave ... but sometimes I'll go in discussion with the person .... I know, I know .. I aint an angel always
            On demand this signature has been changed. I hope nobody was insulted or got harmed due to my signature. If this is the case, I'm fully responsible for the harm that was done. Do you feel harmed or you simply want a listening ear?

            Call 0900-PHAE

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            • #7
              Might as well say the ones I do agree on.

              Firespamming : This is, of course, going to be kind of split, A couple firebolts on one thief shouldn't be banned, firespamming a cheap swordthief should be 100% ok. OTOH, we've had lengthy descussions on lowering the limit to 2 firebolts\life, period.

              Objective Stacking : Against overwhelming odds, stack away. With 5 guards against a single average thief, I'm personally going to destroy every crate and toss every corpse outside into the shadows.

              Dropped Stuff : YES!

              Spawnraping/Spawncamping : I think that's pretty much a given. Lessened of course, with the 10 second invisibility, and if the thief has an ear out, can know a guard is nearby while loading out, ask the guard to leave, and he will be obligated to comply.

              Doorblocking : If you've been doorblocked, you can broadhead to death or crack the guard. If he's called reinforcements, you should have been more careful.

              Ropeblocking : It is pretty rare... Pretty much the only time I've been arrowblocked, it was done improperly and I didn't lose a second picking it up.

              Flashbombspamming : I don't know what you're talking about here. FBs are expensive, and the thief is still risking a stray mace in the face trying to KO you.

              Combined use of Crack and Sword : Yes, it's fine. If the guard had a nearby friend, nothing would be the matter, but even still, you can still see the attacking thief through your green craziness.

              Exploiting Map Bugs : I don't know any map bugs...

              DMing in General : I really don't see any problem with putting one of your 5 arrows into a guard's back every so often; that's what they're for (or as a makeshift distraction, *thunk* "What was that?") DMing totally is kind of lame, except on severe campiness, like Gerome or Skeltsonhead

              Winning - KOing/Killing a lot: Ja.

              Loosing - being KOed/Killed a lot : What about us antisocal types? I don't think there's really any problem as long as you leave in disgust...after the game. Can't play Thievery all day anyway, much as we'd like to.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Salvage
                When someone sword thiefs it takes the fun right out of the game for me. I'll either spectate excessively or leave.
                Before I swordhtieved, when I got firespammed, it took the fun out of my game. I was told to STFU, and adapt.

                firespamming a cheap swordthief should be 100% ok
                Please, go right ahead... Your firebolts drain your life too...

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                • #9
                  well, exploiting map bugs is fine. I mean, if everyone used the same stuff all the time, what's the fun in playing? And what's the line between 'secret' and 'bug'?


                  There already is an unwritten rule about camping a spawn: A thief spawn is a no-kill zone, unless you're attacked first. Then it's by all means alright to teach that bugger a lesson
                  "Just off the border of your waking mind there lies another time, where darkness and light are one. As you tread the halls of sanity, you feel so glad to be unable to go beyond. I have a message from another time."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Swiss Mercenary
                    Originally posted by Salvage
                    When someone sword thiefs it takes the fun right out of the game for me. I'll either spectate excessively or leave.
                    Before I swordhtieved, when I got firespammed, it took the fun out of my game. I was told to STFU, and adapt.
                    I can handle most sword thieves, it's just that it isn't fun for me.
                    Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

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                    • #11
                      Different people have different playstyles. I say (outside cheating and exploiting) adapt or leave. If the devs thought limiting guards 2 firebolts per game was a good idea, they'd have done it. To quote one dev, people have almost ruined this game by enforcing stupid playstyle rules and unwise server settings.
                      (AKA Dresden)
                      Despite all my rage, I am still just a dwarf in a cage.

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                      • #12
                        Yes.

                        If there's a problem in the game, it can still be patched. Development isn't over.

                        Whining about it only makes the problem worse.

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                        • #13
                          While we're on the subject of map "exploits" and "secrets", what does everyone think about Nostalgia's and Warehouse's secret exits? I think they're ok, personally. Should've guarded the loot in the first place.

                          If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't ask.

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                          • #14
                            I think the community agrees on one rule tho. No invisi potion KO's. They should just disable the BJ and sword while invisi
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fossil
                              I think the community agrees on one rule tho. No invisi potion KO's. They should just disable the BJ and sword while invisi
                              I think you may be mistaken there fossil....

                              Anyway, on the objective stacking topic, I can't help but feel this is at least partially a mapping problem. A lot of thievery objectives are small, non-blocking gems or scrolls, occasionally in wooden chests. If they were larger, blocking and the chests were metal, then stacking would be much harder.
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