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Hmm, How the hell do you beat this?

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  • Hmm, How the hell do you beat this?

    OK, last night I had a run of pretty enjoyable games on Mog's but I've been thinking over one particular game:

    -Spider, all objectives but grail completed
    -Me & Stakhanov remaining thieves
    -Gerbil, Kewlazme & someone else guarding
    -No AI guards left

    -The Grail was in the Western room & all guards were in there
    -Caltrops on both entrances (vent & door)
    -Whistlers at both entrances
    -Guards kept the doors firmly shut
    -Chest was inside the room so guards had unlimited supplies
    -Whenever we tried a distraction, the guards would never stray more than a few metres from the room & always used flares, so we couldn't BJ/snipe them
    -Fairly large number of fire arrows in the guards possession

    This eventually led to the guards winning, with which I have no problems, since they fit the two simple requirements for playing well:
    -They guarded the grail successfully
    -They didn't cheat

    Therefore, THIS IS NOT A POST ABOUT WHETHER THE ABOVE GUARD-STYLE IS VALID.

    I just want to know how on Earth we beat that strategy?

    Gerbil moaned quite a bit because me & Stak spent the best part of 10 mins discussing how we could try to get the grail, but we were truly stumped since the guards wouldn't leave the room & there was no easy way of sneaking in.

  • #2
    hmm. been a long time since i played, but can't you destroy whistlers with arrows? if so, sacrifice one life to take out the whistlers and maybe the trops.

    then it just becomes a matter of slowly killing out the guards (no other choice in that matter)

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    • #3
      The guards have infinate flares and crossbow bolts, but not fire bolts or life. I don't know if you had enough time or resorces left to do this, shooting the top of the door with a crack arrow, open the door, and let the guards gas themselves - try what you will from there. Or find a way to make them waste firebolts. Or just open the door and snipe the bastard when he comes looking. Maybe. Either way, very dangerous.

      Kiech
      Kiech

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      • #4
        Anh, if properly executed and there's at least one guard per exit, you can't do jack about it. Even less if there are only 2 thieves and no lives left. If you have lives to spare, doing a suicide run in to clean the doors from mines and make them waste firebolts then do something with flash or gas could be a way to try. But if they let you in and do that it's because they want. They can just keep the door shut and you will never go in.

        Comment


        • #5
          hmmm , this game was tense but also dissappointing... We slowly secure the appartments and the inner courtyard , yet the 3 guards were locked in the grail appartment till the end (don't ask how they can enjoy camping so much )
          Several times MG spotted me from whistler sound , and tried to shoot in the vents (I was fast enough to go back to the 3rd appartment) , but Dan had no less trouble approaching the appartment door as well...
          At the end , I opened the door for him , hoping he would distract the guards enough to let me take the grail. 2 firebolts shot , eating our drops , no guard out.
          Seeing they started to be impatient , I came back to the vents hoping I'd see the whistler before it would be triggered... I had a clear view of the grail ! But of only 1 guards (others camping in corners as always) ; Dan finally opened the door to take it , luring one guard. I burst out of the vent (with speed potion) to take the grail yet 2 guards were simply blocking me (not attacking at first , but instead relying on their collision cylinder to block the way. If you don't believe me , do the maths...)
          At this point I could have managed to take the grail. But MG found it styled to finish me with a firebolt. Later , Dan was killed by an other guard (no hope)

          This situation was partly our fault (we somehow wasted our lives at some point) but I truly can't understand why guards play that way. What's fun in the guard side is hunting the thieves , finding them , holding a defense perimeter and slaying intruders. The longer the chase , the funnier it is ...
          Theses guards didn't behave like human players. They played like sentries. Stay in secure locations , wait for ennemies , shoot at them. You know what ? AIs with firebolt only loadouts would have done the same job. Most of theses are set to make the game interesting , patrol areas so they are a bit less predictable , and chase thieves when they spot them. They investigate when they hear sounds , and don't just camp objectives to be the most effective. Why do you think Joel made all this code ?

          When few thieves are remaining , guards can secure the map again (they are less likely to be BJed) and hunt the poor exhausted thieves.

          I'm sorry if I was agressive yesterday right after this match , next time the guards camp objectives I'll simply say GG and leave the server so that spectators don't waste their time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Feel happy there are no crates to stack on the Grail in Spiders. :roll:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stakhanov
              I truly can't understand why guards play that way.
              I can. They won, didn't they?

              I'd say the big mistake you and Dan made was letting the guards in in the first place. Do that, and Spiders is really easy to defend.

              As for leaving when guards are camping an objective... why? You may as well keep trying to break whatever defenses they have set up. I didn't see this situation, obviously, but most of the time, there IS a way.

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              • #8
                Moss, Crack and Flash...

                Kamikaze: Both taffers in vents. One bursts out, flashing/cracking a guard. Make sure they HAVE to hit you with at least 1 Fire before you die. Then, run around and light them. When the room is empty/all guards hurt/burning, your fellow taffer shoots some BH's/Crack/Flash and gets the grail. Make sure you've got Water up!

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's not an impossible situation -- I've ghosted against a similar setup, and seen others beat it, as well. It's certainly not easy, though. But as LR said, once the guards get to the grail, they can make the map very challenging.

                  LR, however, you either forgot or didn't realize that guards can get into the apartments on their own. Obviously, I'm not going to go into details here, but it is possible.
                  Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DarkBill
                    LR, however, you either forgot or didn't realize that guards can get into the apartments on their own. Obviously, I'm not going to go into details here, but it is possible.
                    True, they can. But I suspect it requires so much time and effort, as well as enough of the guard team, that the thieves would have virtually free run of the place, and could probably get into the apartments by a more conventional route, get the stuff, and get out by the time the guards managed to get in.

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                    • #11
                      SPOILER:

                      THE CHEST, THE CHEST! OMG THE CHEST! THE CHEEEEEEEST!
                      I Need Training!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LaughingRat
                        Originally posted by DarkBill
                        LR, however, you either forgot or didn't realize that guards can get into the apartments on their own. Obviously, I'm not going to go into details here, but it is possible.
                        True, they can. But I suspect it requires so much time and effort, as well as enough of the guard team, that the thieves would have virtually free run of the place, and could probably get into the apartments by a more conventional route, get the stuff, and get out by the time the guards managed to get in.
                        I can do it, by myself, in under a minute. The time varies slightly depending on the situation. I've done it in as little as ten seconds once.
                        Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LaughingRat
                          Originally posted by DarkBill
                          LR, however, you either forgot or didn't realize that guards can get into the apartments on their own. Obviously, I'm not going to go into details here, but it is possible.
                          True, they can. But I suspect it requires so much time and effort, as well as enough of the guard team, that the thieves would have virtually free run of the place, and could probably get into the apartments by a more conventional route, get the stuff, and get out by the time the guards managed to get in.
                          Nope, it's another way. Played with him once on Spider, and we were in in less than a couple minutes. I was off patrolling so I didn't see how it was done. I know it wasn't through vents as I walked through a door to get inside.


                          Edit: I see bill posted ahead of me
                          Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Once in, I believe the doors will open from the inside, but I could be mistaken.
                            Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DarkBill
                              Once in, I believe the doors will open from the inside, but I could be mistaken.
                              The AI can open the doors in any event.

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