Human guards are really lame?

[Laurence]

Hello, me and my friend Terryn have played thievery since it came out. Before we played Thief and Thief II. One thing we talked about the other day was that human guards are really lame? :? Cause it seems to us that the guards doesn't want to play, they only want to win??? ffs that "destroys" the whole thing of thievery.

The human guards just run to the objective or whatever, and stays in that room with other AI guards and just wait... So just winning is all that matters for you guys??? Wouldnt suprise me if ppl will stop playing thievery cause of that, its not the same feeling, cant understand how you guys just can wait in a room for hours waiting on the thieves to come. I mean, run around the map guarding some loot, and there after run and guard the objectives or something? but running to the objectives from the beginning.. heh.. :roll: cant se any fun in that.

One last thing, i've heard that ppl say that knocking out guard as a thief is lame... hm, excuse me?! :roll: even if i play thief 1/2 as ghosting, human guards is not the same as AI guards.. there are no rule that says that thiefs cant knock guards out, i mean ghosting, thats no problem for us, we can do that as good as blackjacking, we just play different all the time, some times we play with blackjack, sometimes ghosting. But compare a thief that blackjacks some guards and a guard that stays in a room for hours and guarding an objective, i think thats a big difference. Only because of that i will knock out more guards

[koraX]

hmm

guards stays guarding objectives, because if they will go out, some BJ whore will BJ them. Thiefs BJ guards outside, because they are angry that guards are inside and guarding objectives.

It is like who was the first, egg or chicken ?

[Stakhanov]

The camping guard issues partly comes from circlestrafing... (the most lame way of removing guards) so they stay together in a protected area , only the most courageous ones scanning the dark parts of the map with flares. It also has to do with the respawning loot bug (objectives are so easier to guard)
When guards want to win , they either camp (normal game) or shadowslash (when there are only ghosters)
This only applies to certain guards btw. The ones who mostly use the lamest methods imaginable as long as it's "legal" or "valid"... they argue that you are "whiners" or "losers" and can't stand their "guarding skills" ...
I'm so impatient to see the 1.3 changes...

[Flack]

"A good thief can steal thing that is guarded like a fortress."
"A good guard can safe something from being stolen even if he's alone."
----- found in chineese fortune cookies.

You dont need to win to have a gg.

[Tankazz]

I've never understood the "Guards camping the objective" arguement. THEY ARE FRICKIN' GUARDS!!! They aren't paid to roam around a house and get knocked out, they're paid to protect that which their employer wants them to protect! (except for that Lord Gerome asswipe... he has a short temper and a weapon to back it up with...)

Play long enough and you'll learn how to outsmart the guards and get the objectives.

[Yenzarill]

Thieves "circle strafe".

Guards "camp".

:cry:
Live with it.

THE PEOPLE ON THE GUARDS TEAM WILL NOT PLAY LIKE RETARDED MONKEYS FOR YOUR THIEVING ENJOYMENT. THIS IS NOT THIEF.

THE THIEVES WON'T LIE DOWN AND DIE SO THAT YOU DON'T FEEL BAD IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT. IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT, THERE IS ONE PERSON RESPONSIBLE. YOU.

Play the game how you want. Accept that others will do the same. I know I sure will. :x

I KO as much as I can. I sit in little rooms with thieves objectives, 5 AI and a million caltrops. If you don't like it... well, have fun not liking it.

[Nachimir]

THE PEOPLE ON THE GUARDS TEAM WILL NOT PLAY LIKE RETARDED MONKEYS FOR YOUR THIEVING ENJOYMENT. THIS IS NOT THIEF.

THE THIEVES WON'T LIE DOWN AND DIE SO THAT YOU DON'T FEEL BAD IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT. IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT, THERE IS ONE PERSON RESPONSIBLE. YOU.

I think that deserves to be reiterated for emphasis

[Tankazz]

Yenzarill is my new hero

[Mad_Gerbil]

Here is an example of how I play. Let's use the map Gerome as an example. I picked that because it has the Evidence the thieves must read in a location that is easy to camp.

Guarding Against Ghosters:
When the other team is all ghosters I'll stick 1 or 2 AI in the library and then I'll go camp the barraks. I figure that 1 or 2 AI is a good challenge for a ghoster and it is still fun.

Guarding Against DM'ers:
Pack all the AI in the library, litter the place with caltrops and mines, wait behind the door and shut it as fast as they open it. (I played the 'automatic door' game with one of the games biggest BJ whores on Skelstonhead the other day for 10 MINUTES until time ran out) WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT LEAVE THE ROOM.

When first played the game I used to go out and roam looking for thieves. I'd do that for 2 minutes and then spend the rest of the game observing as a rat because everything was getting BJ whored to hell and back.

Hopefully in 1.3 we'll see the return of the roaming guard and the stealthy thief. I'm wit ya Laurence.

[Yenzarill]

Pack all the AI in the library, litter the place with caltrops and mines, wait behind the door and shut it as fast as they open it. (I played the 'automatic door' game with one of the games biggest BJ whores on Skelstonhead the other day for 10 MINUTES until time ran out) WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT LEAVE THE ROOM.

Guards win. Every time. Bit of discipline, they win.
Rooms like the library in gerome, guards win.

In my opinion, the *ONLY* balance issues in thievery is within the maps.

Thief vs Guard. 1 on 1. Both DMing. more than 90% of the time the guard will win.

Provided you're talking about players of similar skill level, I admit people that are new to the game are very easy to KO. But trying to KO a seasoned guard is damn near impossible. Much similar to the way that players can get better at other games by acquiring skill.

If you get owned, you get owned. Next thing you get is better.

[Laurence]

heh, well.. Tankazz first of all.. i know guards are gurads.. but i dont think its as fun as not camping an objective. i mean, its still fun, trying to outsmart the guards and take the objective, its just a thaught.. and trust me, i have played thievery long enough.....

Yenzarill, i know this is not Thief, i were just comparing a human guard to a AI guard. I thaught you guys would have thaught it was funnier to play that way to, but it seems you all dont. I still like to play, and i still thinks its funny even if guards run to the objective place at the start, cause its nice to think of different ways to outsmart them. But the thaught of guards not running to objective at the start would be even more fun i think. And like i said, didnt say this because of MY thievery enjoyment, thaught it were your thievery enjoyment to.
But i sure dont want to play as guards, dont think i would manage to stay in a room that long just camping, but if you guys thinks its fun, go ahead, i'm a thief only anyway. And sure i can live with it, thats no problem at all.. thats why thiefs can by speed/invisibility/catfall potions and crack arrows and stuff

[Yenzarill]

Laurence:

You don't honestly believe anyone playing guard would "go easy" and play like an AI from Thief?!

I'm sorry, but no one would intentionally play like a zombie to make your thieving experience more enjoyable/easy.

I'm sure if it were possible to make the AI play exactly like humans do, then they would. (i'm not having a go at you Joel ) Right down to the crate stacking.
-------
In my opinion, eventually, maps with must-get objectives should be eliminated. (eye of fire, flame ruby, treasure map, library exidence.)

Objectives should be like evidence in aqua (more availible than needed), lyre in nostalgie (not completely necessary, but useful), crypt gem in korman (guards dont know the location). There is other way of making objectives workable.

Evidence in aquatone is fine, lyre in nostalgia is fine.

[Tisfulakistakagela]

Hello, me and my friend Terryn have played thievery since it came out. Before we played Thief and Thief II. One thing we talked about the other day was that human guards are really lame?

wanna see guard lame and spam??? play with RLFs

[Laurence]

Yenzarill:

uhm, are you even reading what i'm writing? of course i dont think human guards will "go easy" like that. I never said that. I just said the thing with camping the objective.. And for the last time, i posted that reply from the beginning cause i thought other ppl would have thought the same as i did. So it were not just for MY thievery enjoyable, it were to other ppl to.. well, lets drop this whole thing, now i know what ppl think, like i said, it was just an idea. So, l8er dude, see you ingame sometime..

[Yenzarill]

Guarding Objectuve = one of the best strategies.

Ignoring a good strategy = going easy.