Question for the Development Team

[Mad_Gerbil]

Some thieves seem to think that a balanced TUT is a TUT where a single thief can defeat an entire guard team. While I'd admit it happens at times, the real question is this:

Are the thieves 'balanced' in a way to have them work as a team or are they balanced to have them work as 'lone wolves'.

Please, only the Development Team answer.

[Lurox]

It depends on your way of playing, really.

[Anonymous]

It depends on your way of playing, really.

Well what about the camping aspect of the game. It's really unfair when 2 or more guards lay so many traps in one room and camp heh!

[Dalai]

The problem with the thieves, is that everyone has a preconception of 'lone wolf' from playing Garrett in Thief. Also, it quite often works to their advantage if they all split up, the guards can't be everywhere at once.

[Lurox]

I, for myself, work better alone temporarily, but moments will come where you need your teammates.

[poe]

I THINK gerbil meant to ask about the intent behind the balancing... I'd like to know as well if thieves are balanced to be working alone or in groups (ie: is something that requires theives to team up unfair, things like that)

correct me if I'm wrong gerbs

[Lurox]

But we are telling ways of seeing them as balanced.

[Dalai]

We didn't intend either, to be honest.

[DarkProject]

the guards camping objectives (korman reactory gets really bad if you don't get the ruby asap.....you are screwed....

anyway it's more of a map problem not a tut problem

[Kiech Bepho]

the guards camping objectives (korman reactory gets really bad if you don't get the ruby asap.....you are screwed....

anyway it's more of a map problem not a tut problem

Agreed. Starting up an appropriate thread.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Okay, I'll say this ONE MORE TIME.

*pants*

By working together or working as a team I do NOT mean traveling in groups. Heck, I don't even mean that for GUARDS. I've never meant that for ANY TEAM ON ANY ONLINE GAME.

What I mean is this:
Is TUT designed with the intent of allowing each thief to live out his Garrett fantasy with human guards running around (Garrett, the lone hero... the single guy with all the time/tools/talent needed to do the whole map) or is it an attempt to allow thieves to work as a team against the guard team?

Obviously the question has alot of design considerations behind it.

For instance:
How much time do we allow on a map? Do we allow enough time for a single thief to cover the map 2 and 3 times are do we allow enough time for a TEAM of theives working in coordination to cover the map?

How much loot do we put on the map? Do we put enough loot for each thief to get enough to get all required to win or do we put enough for the thieves to have to work as a team?

How powerful are weapons? Should a thief be able to handle 3 guards at a time because he's Uber Thief or does he have to rely on teammates to provide distractions, cover, and intelligence information?

Understand what Kiech is saying and wanting here.

He wants it so if 5 members of a 6 member thief team totally pOOp themselves and die the lone thief should have the time/resources/weapons to pick up all the pieces of his failed team and pull out a win against a coordinated guard effort.

I'll admit this happens....but it should be very, very rare.

Nowhere has a single guard EVER suggested that if 5 outta 6 guards pOOp themselves that the single guard should have the reduced time/extra resources/weapons to single handedly win against a coordinated theif effort.

So what should we do? Knock 15 minutes off a 20 minute map because 90% of the guard team screwed up?

I know, lets give the last remaining guard 500 firebolts and radar vision because he shouldn't have to depend on his team to win, he should be UBER GUARD and be able to kick the entire thief teams ass solo.

When you put Kiech's request on a guard foot you can see just how silly it is.

[Yenzarill]

The game. in general, seems pretty balanced to me.

Not speaking of any specific situation.

[Mad_Gerbil]

The game. in general, seems pretty balanced to me.

Not speaking of any specific situation.

I'd agree.

There are just a couple of annoying specifics.
I think the thief bow and BJ need to be reigned in a little bit

AND

I think that some maps need to be tweaked to make them possible for thieves to win. (For example, the map on Skelstonhead should never spawn in that center house with only one entrance)

[NeoPendragon]

Yeah Skeltson's Head does feel like "Get the Evidence from Gerome v2" at times. Most of the time, Thieves have to resort to DM on that map and they'll probobly be screwed in 1.3.

[LegalAssassin]

NP: More skillz required then

I like the lone wolf style more, if I try teaming I often end up being followed by all n00bs, "giving orders" to them