balance in 1.3

[impulse]

I'm concerned about the changes resulting in 1.3 as little complaints are voiced from thief orientated players. It appears most of the suggested changes involve altering things to suit a guards view of how the game should progress.

Straight to my main concern; if the tactic of removing a guard through black-jacking is significantly weakened then guards can potentially camp the objectives without fail, considering they have a large enough presence of human guards.

I'm not raising this issue as I'm concerned of my gameplay, it involves those ghosters as well, who surely understand they will be against the odds without the ability to protect themselves or to proceed with things when a quick black jack may be required. Of course you could use alterior tactics to manage such a situation, in some cases avoid it altogether.

Basically, I hope 1.3 allows a balance between koing and ghosting, as well as guarding/camping. I know its hard to please everyone when producing the patch, but I would be greatly disappointed to see acceptable tactics fall out (this includes both guard and thief tactics) in the process.

[-=V12US=-]

Crack, flash, invis., speed, catfall... need I say more?

The only thing that is going to be ruined is circle strafing... it's not like they're making KO'ing impossible or something, it's just that they're making it harder.

And I'm quite sure that the new invisibility system will more than make up for it.

[Lurox]

Don't expect the devs to hand out their secrets so easily. :x

[Mad_Gerbil]

I share some of the same concerns that Impulse has voiced here.
The teefs need a couple of bones here, although from what I've heard, the Dev team has some nice plans here.

Which is to say, I hope that DM teefs find the game frustrating and leave. I hope thieves willing to combine skill with an occassional KO find the game to be challenging and fun. I hope the ghosters find the game fun as well.

[Gullonefox]

We have been testing Thievery quite a bit these days, don't panic too much about balance, as far as I can tell it's a lot more fun. Im not sure if Dalai has given away many details, but the addition of a certain somthing special has made things much better IMHO. And the new maps are great also.

[Curunir]

I hope that DM teefs find the game frustrating and leave.

I totally disagree. If a thief wants to DM, dangit, let him. If the DEVs make 1.3 almost impossible to DM a guard, and that thief can do it effectively, then that means he/she has to have some awesome skill. I don't think it was right of you, in any way, to hope that someone leaves TUT just because of their style of gameplay, as long as it doesn't include raging or cheating.

[Anonymous]

I think that more violent thieves should be welcome but the game should be a way so they are forced to use weapons like swords and crack arrows. Its a bit silly running round and round someone with a little club trying to hit them on the back of the head. I like the idea elsewhere someone had of having blackjack happy suffer risk of dropping their beloved weapon if a guard gets a hit in.

[-=V12US=-]

I hope that DM teefs find the game frustrating and leave.

I totally disagree. If a thief wants to DM, dangit, let him. If the DEVs make 1.3 almost impossible to DM a guard, and that thief can do it effectively, then that means he/she has to have some awesome skill. I don't think it was right of you, in any way, to hope that someone leaves TUT just because of their style of gameplay, as long as it doesn't include raging or cheating.

Agreed, right now DM'ing is just too easy compared to how much it sets the opposite team back. DMing shouldn't be abolished, just made harder.

[Adrock]

I like the idea elsewhere someone had of having blackjack happy suffer risk of dropping their beloved weapon if a guard gets a hit in.

Me :grin:

[Kiech Bepho]

I am personally not too worried about TUT overbalancing things for the guards. I am sure everything has been carefully thought out. Sure there will be issues to deal with, but then again there is 1.4.

Kiech

[assassin]

i belive that "DMing" has gone down greatly since ppl have found ways of defeating "DMers"
but i personaly think that if im having a bad day or am not feeling in the "sneaking/ghosting" mood i can pull out a trusty sword and go an "assassinate" some guards just for the shear fun of it. cheers

[KewlAzMe]

but the addition of a certain somthing special has made things much better IMHO.

AHH a certain somthing special?!!? What could it be!? What could it BE?!

OHHHH the humanity of making us wait this long and teasing us!

[BobTheMad]

http://www.thieveryut.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=375

[Dalai]

Balance is a concern, yes. In 1.2 the thieves have an instagib melee weapon (the blackjack) and their ranged weapon does more damage than the guards'. This goes against our initial aims, which were for the guards to be good at combat, the thieves to be good at sneaking.

1.3 has corrected this, as well as made a number of other changes. Are things now harder for the thieves? Probably. Does this make the game less fun? We shall see!

[Entropy]

I would just like to stress to the mappers: please be aware of the limitations the changes will impose on thieves. Since the changes will make life tougher on thieves and it doesn't sound like there will be much in the way of compensating changes, and this is a game where thieves generally lose most games already on public servers, please bear in mind the thieves' vulnerabilities and limitations when designing your map.

Give them more shadows to hide in. Give them more routes to approach objectives. Give them more escape routes so they won't be forced into hopeless confrontations every time their cover is blown, or shot to death by xbow bolts every time they run away. IMO balance in Thievery is at least as much about level design as it is about tweaking crossbow power and blackjack arcs.

I am not against a less DM-friendly Thievery, but I AM against thieves becoming mobile punching bags for guards, instead of challenging opponents. I think most proguard players would agree. Hamstrung thieves aren't exactly fun opponents right?