Favorite Type of Government?

[Swiss Mercenary]

...the United States is a representational republic, which is why its a Rule of the Dollar, rather then Rule of the Unwashed Masses.

If sky was from Canada or the UK, I'd have said the same thing, to a somewhat lesser extent. I'd have also added a passing comment about the wanker of a suckup that both countries have for PM.

Considering that the rest of my statement is pretty damn accurate, I'd say that its more along the lines of you having a bone to grind with me. Feel free to either spit it out if you do, or bury it. If you want to keep walking with a chip on your shoulder with me, I really can't give a damn about that.

(Unlike, say, the CIA), that performs acts of terrorism/war.

Sounds like a terrorist organisation to me.

Otherwise, the important difference between them, and US militias, is that those militias aren't firing rockets into Mexico.

What the ----- is your problem with that?

What am I supposed to say there? ", and Sweedish militias?" The US is the prime example of a place that's got plenty of militias that don't fire rockets at Israel, or engage in genocidal ethnic cleansing on a semi-regular basis. That's like bitching about me saying "between them, and US neocons" when talking about right-wing nutjobs. Or even better "between them, and the US use of nuclear weapons, in war". Like, holy hell, all three of those things have something in common... Think on it... Think on it... Oh, YES! Maybe the common element between those three statements is that the US is the best, and mostly clearly recognisable example of a nation that has

A) Militias
B) A good amount of neocons in power
C) Used nuclear weapons

I'm not allowed to say 'US militias', you say, then? Well I'm sorry that the truth offends your sensibilities so.

Oh, I know, your problem might have been in that I equated them with Hezbollah. Well, let's see...

Hezbollah - provide education, healthcare, and various other social services to Lebanon. Have what amounts to an army. Have guns. Fire rockets at Israel.

Various US militias - provide... Something. Are essentially armies. Have guns. Don't fire rockets at anyone.

Holy hell, I don't know about you, but it seems to me that on an international scale, the arguable main difference between the two, is that one is firing rockets at Israel, and that the other isn't firing rockets at Mexico. You're -------- offended by that? What the hell is your problem again?

And let's not forget... http://forums.blackcatgames.com/showthread.php?t=8828

Let's me say again.

Every nation gets the government it deserves.

You know, that's about as impartial as it can bloody get.

If anything, people were arguing that North Korea and Cuba didn't deserve their governments. If you feel that statement offended your American sensibilities in any way, then let's break it down.

A - You think you have a good government. You know, in that case, amazingly enough, my statement claims that... You deserve it. Congratulations. Have fun with it.

B - You think you have a bad government. In that case, holy hell, you people bloody well voted for it. Now, go deal with it. If you country voted for Bush, you go and bloody well live with him, considering that I sure as hell didn't.

You think you don't deserve him? Then, as a nation, you people should go do something about it. Until you do, I see nothing that might convince me to think otherwise.

[Baz]

...the United States is a representational republic, which is why its a Rule of the Dollar, rather then Rule of the Unwashed Moses.

[BiG_D]

Every nation gets the government it deserves.

*yawn*
I think we've already killed that "discussion." How about you prove that it isn't just about pissing off as many people as possible by taking it to private messages? There's no need to bring it up every time someone says the word government.

And a few of you are starting to push your luck. Keep it civil.

[TafferBoy]

I understand we're touching on some sensitive topics, but don't make be turn the hose on you guys ><

Swiss:
The issue for me is more whether the west would consider Hezbolla a terrorist organisation if they weren't muslim/arabs.
Athough I accept your points about Hezbolla's independant status and actions.
However, I think something rests on whether their actions can be interpreted as defensive or agressive, but the conflict is so endemic you can't really point the finger at anyone and say 'you started it'. All i can say is that its mighty screwed up and i'm glad i'm here and not there.

U.S. Government is really dumb have to say, Politicians blamed bish because a hirricane struck us. I don't know other countries that are bad at democracy, or don't do great decisions.

a common criticism of the way in which states like the US handle 'security' issues is that they have far too great a focus on 'military' threats. When your chances of getting killed by a terrorist or by an invading army pale in comparison with your chances of dieing in a traffic accident, or from cancer, or indeed what are the chances of having your house bombed compared to it getting destroyed by a hurricane?
Its fairly logical to question why your government is sending troops to die on the other side of the planet when there are homeless people dying on your very streets.

And trust me, other democracies make 'bad' decisions too. subjectively speaking of course.

I think we've already killed that "discussion."

unless anyone wants to argue the inherent merits of particular types of governance... I think we can agree that no system is 'perfect' tho

[Ran-bot]

....I'd say that its more along the lines of you having a bone to grind with me. Feel free to either spit it out if you do, or bury it. If you want to keep walking with a chip on your shoulder with me, I really can't give a damn about that.

No, not really. However, you have a tendency to make extreme, inflamatory remarks (maybe even flame-baiting as Fuzzy pointed out) that are particularly venomous toward US policies and US citizens on the whole. It all makes me not want to listen to anything you have to say. It's a shame because I could/should have been a sympathetic ear for you, as I agree or at least partly agree with many of your opinions. I am not a Bush supporter, I do not support the Iraq war, I tend to be liberal in most of my views, but any remark you make is null and void to me now, because I cannot bide by your methods of argument. I doubt I'm the only one here feeling that way.

But it's the internet...I wouldn't censor you even if I had the ability...say whatever you want as long as the moderators stay happy.

[Pestcontrol]

Couldn't agree more, ran-bot. I feel swiss' remarks are polarising, respectless and radical to such a degree that they do more harm than good. Not a basis for discussion.


Most law systems recognise freedom of speech, but ban seeding hate or calling for illegal actions. It's up to the mods to find a balance. Personally i'd warm for it simply because i'm suspicious of an attempt to upset the forum dynamics without it contributing much otherwise. So well done Big_D.

[Swiss Mercenary]

I understand we're touching on some sensitive topics, but don't make be turn the hose on you guys ><

Swiss:
The issue for me is more whether the west would consider Hezbolla a terrorist organisation if they weren't muslim/arabs.
Athough I accept your points about Hezbolla's independant status and actions.

I don't know? Would we? That's a game of 'what if'.

However, I think something rests on whether their actions can be interpreted as defensive or agressive, but the conflict is so endemic you can't really point the finger at anyone and say 'you started it'. All i can say is that its mighty screwed up and i'm glad i'm here and not there.

You can interpret their actions any way you want, because it is their opinion that Israel is still occupying areas of Lebanon, and they are 'simply' playing the 'resistance fighter' role.

And you know what? The population of Lebanon happen to see the situation that way.

a common criticism of the way in which states like the US handle 'security' issues is that they have far too great a focus on 'military' threats. When your chances of getting killed by a terrorist or by an invading army pale in comparison with your chances of dieing in a traffic accident, or from cancer, or indeed what are the chances of having your house bombed compared to it getting destroyed by a hurricane?
Its fairly logical to question why your government is sending troops to die on the other side of the planet when there are homeless people dying on your very streets.

Maybe. A better criticism would probably be that they are (As nach mentioned in another thread) still stuck in fighting a traditional war.

What has bombing Lebanon accomplished? Killing some Hezbollah fighters? Crippling the rest of the country's infrastructure? International condemnation (Scratch that, the countries that matter are still sending them bombs)?

And trust me, other democracies make 'bad' decisions too. subjectively speaking of course.

I don't see what you are aiming at here at all, despite the fact that I perfectly well agree with it.

No, not really. However, you have a tendency to make extreme, inflamatory remarks (maybe even flame-baiting as Fuzzy pointed out) that are particularly venomous toward US policies and US citizens on the whole.

Particularly venomous to the US, UK, and Harper policies as a whole. You know, maybe because they have few if any redeeming factors.

If you are offended by my attack on US policy, then, let's see...

Either:

A: You oppose that policy. In which case, why do you associate yourself with it? And, if you don't, why do you think that it is an attack on you?

B: You support that policy. In which case, well, that's your decision to associate yourself with it.

polarising, respectless and radical to such a degree that they do more harm than good

Which ones? And, mind mentioning in which way?

[Ran-bot]

Which ones? And, mind mentioning in which way?

Flamebait.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Flamebait.

Is that your way of saying: "I really can't answer that question?"

If so, it's OK. I can understand.

Edit: I also love the way that aparrently, my claim that "If you aren't doing anything to change your government, you deserve to live with it" implies that I'm an OHMYGAWD RADICAL REVOLUTIONARY, SEEDING HATE AND CALLING FOR FUCKING ILLEGAL ACTIONS.

Or maybe it were my claims that 'If it gets bad enough in a country, mobs won't really care about what's legal and not.' That's clearly calling for rioting and looting in the streets, huh? Rather, then, you know, being a bloody factual statement?

[BiG_D]

Enough already. Drop it.

[Pestcontrol]

I could answer the question easily enough, Swiss, but if you don't see it yourself, would you if i spelled it out to you? I think you don't have an open mind.

[Swiss Mercenary]

I could answer the question easily enough, Swiss, but if you don't see it yourself, would you if i spelled it out to you? I think you don't have an open mind.

Oh, I certainly do see where Ran is coming from, but I'm afraid he hasn't quite caught the full implications of it. I've seen it before, many times, and not in response to my posts, I may add.

I'm done. If he wants the chip, that's his loss.

[TafferBoy]

I don't know? Would we? That's a game of 'what if'.

I'm aware of that, but its an interesting angle, I believe race and relgion are not without significance.

Maybe. A better criticism would probably be that they are (As nach mentioned in another thread) still stuck in fighting a traditional war.

It is a seperate criticism - they only know how to deal with traditional 'state-based' threats, while international terrorism, for example is 'stateless' - thus the emphasis on targeting states that harbor/support terrorism, rather than looking at its root causes.
I think both criticisms are valid, the first one I raised was more relevant to sky's statement however.

Peace

[aceofs]

Cake-Barter Eudaimonia With a Hint of Crypto-Cthulhiana.

"Alls I need are my squiddies and pie."
-- George Washington Barker, First Presidentiary of Caketown

crypto goverment for the win rofl

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