Grank's 1.2 Balance Stats

[Grank]

For my own curiousity I decided to record thieve vs guard wins per map. Check them out if you're interested.

http://members.accesstoledo.com/chadzib/balance/index.htm

These stats were compiled for 1-20-03 through 1-31-03 for games on the CTG public server. All games are included except for games that were played solo or when a entire team left during the game. Wins by thieves that killed or ko'd the other team are included as thief wins. Some maps have less of a count because of server crashes and player votes to change the map.

I found a few things interesting:
1. Folly is the only thief map.
2. Flats, and Asylum are balanced.
3. I expected Spiders, Nostalgia to be in favor of thieves.
4. Breakout is relatively balanced.

It's obvious that Aquatone, Gerome, Folly and Skeltstonhead need some work. There are serious balance issues on these maps. The thieves are not as over powered as some have thought. In fact, several of the wins on Korman where by elimination of the other team. I think the thieves may have compensated for map balance issues by dm'ing their way in maps.

I'll be interested to see how 1.3 affects these numbers. I'll do this again once 1.3 has been out for awhile and we all learn the new maps and the changes to the current ones.

[Biohazard]

This is interesting.

Now what do you think is going to happen to the balance of the game when the blackjack is nerfed? I'm nervous about this....

[Majarisan]

great numbers. I can't believe the aquatone win ratio. Only 8 thief wins out of 50? I still win aqua 60%-70% of the times I thief it. Despite those numbers I still wish they wouldn't change aqua in 1.3, I've come to love aqua so much and the aquapatch out now is to easy. Gerome is the same way, That just baffles me. The rest of the maps don't suprise me though. Good job Grank

[Entropy]

Now what do you think is going to happen to the balance of the game when the blackjack is nerfed? I'm nervous about this....

I hear your pain...

[Slappy]

Now what do you think is going to happen to the balance of the game when the blackjack is nerfed? I'm nervous about this....

I hear your pain...

Can you also hear the RLF laughing their little rodent nuts off?

---

Grank, I'd like to see stats like this for clan matches as well. I'm betting that when there's more teamwork, some of the maps will come out quite differently than when you just have the anarchy of public games..

[Yenzarill]

I'm pretty sure that the people making Thievery aren't retarded. They're not going to turn the blackjack into a wet sock then leave it at that. Although I like the blackjack, and i'd like it to remain as is, i'm not worried about 1.3 unbalancing the game.

[Grank]

Grank, I'd like to see stats like this for clan matches as well. I'm betting that when there's more teamwork, some of the maps will come out quite differently than when you just have the anarchy of public games..

Those type of stats practically don't exist. How many guild matches have their been? Plus isn't it fair to assume it would be about the same?

These stats, I feel, show how map design is very important in the outcome of games. The fact that these stats very by so much on some maps can only be explained by map design. The other maps are fairly balanced which tells me that the guard abilities vs thief abilities are fairly balanced.

The guards seem to have a edge on theives in 1.2 though. When you look at it, the guards have the advantage on 9 out of the 13 maps. I think this demonstrates that thieves are not over powered as some may have you beleive.

With that being said I'm not afraid of 1.3. I trust the devs to tweak the game in a way that encourages the game play they had in mind by making thieves successful at sneaking . Keep in mind Ent and Bio the dev's don't want to nerf the thieves, just the bj. They may give thieves other abilities that make up for this.

[Yenzarill]

Yes, what Grank said. The maps are really the deciding factor... perhaps mappers should have more control over what weapons are availible on their maps, so they can tweak their maps.

(can't they already do this? well, it should be used more if they can.)

[oRGy]

Thats interesting. I didn't expect Gerome to be nearly as unbalanced as Aquatone. Of course, Aquatone is getting a new 1.3 version which should even the odds a lot.

I also did an upgraded version of Gerome, but I'm not sure if its going to be in 1.3. Will suggest it to Dalai in light of those numbers, but the download size of any patch is going to be a major issue.

:swordthi:

[modetwo]

I also did an upgraded version of Gerome, but I'm not sure if its going to be in 1.3. Will suggest it to Dalai in light of those numbers, but the download size of any patch is going to be a major issue.

I know, but Gerome is very unbalanced. The thieves are lucky if they can get the evidence. I suggest a hole in the roof or something so there's 2 entrances. The door is just to small . . .

[LaughingRat]

I also did an upgraded version of Gerome, but I'm not sure if its going to be in 1.3. Will suggest it to Dalai in light of those numbers, but the download size of any patch is going to be a major issue.

Don't you think most people would be willing to take the extra download time if it meant a more balanced set of maps? It's only a matter of a few minutes, even on dialup, and it only needs to be done once, after all.

[Kiech Bepho]

Even if you don't 'bundle' the map with 1.3, if it was availible for download then I am sure many players and servers would use it.

Kiech

[Chainsaws]

Not many use the Aquatone Patch.....

Although with server downloads enabled that's probably a moot point...

[CrouchingDork]

THIEF WINS

42.97%

GAURD WINS

57.03%




Get it Gerb? :roll: :roll:

[DocSkrilla]

hrmm. are the map objectives multi-path? you know, instead of just objectives in sequence (guards patrol, teefs get evidence; guards try to find teefs, teefs flood the place; guards run after teefs, teefs get the hell out), objectives that respond to what's going on in the map? like, teefs get the evidence, guards lock down the facility, new teef objective is to disable controls, guards' objective is to return evidence, teefs may decide to do whatever, and the objectives respond to each trigger that the players set off? it seems like it may be, but i'm just curious (n00b)