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Industrialism's NB Idea's (29/04/08) more coming soon!

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  • Industrialism's NB Idea's (29/04/08) more coming soon!

    “Night-Blade” vs. “the Dark Mod”

    After four years of playing thievery, I’ve decided to collect thoughts and give my point of view and offer idea’s, I strongly suggest anything not all ready listed here (you another person reading) in this community should post, even if it’s your view point or argument, to help the development team with the Night-Blade project.
    Before you go through this Information which I’m going to keep adding to… I would like to take this opportunity to point out the obvious, both UT3 and Doom3 have net code, one focusing on multiplayer offerings, the other… at some point had requested multiplayer sized maps from its development team (TDM), this will at any given time divide player count for gamers online if both have multiplayer game types when released, why point that out…

    “The hardest part is getting started”

    that in mind I’m going to give all the information I’ve jotted down and had lingering in my head since I started playing thievery, in smaller typical post size defined categories rather than one big oversized post, which is hard to read through.

    Night Blade sound suggestions


    1. Sound through walls wasn’t muffled or enclosed and zoned, so with an actor or mapping method can we do this? (degrading sound) why~

    2. For instance let’s say that sound is only of pace when heard and not seen (movement or a character) but not distinguishable between character game sounds (thief footsteps/guard footsteps). (The sound source) after its outward radius reaches geometry(floor/ceiling) (crawling in an attic above) to be heard below, the generated sound reacts like its filling an empty volume, based on the surface or something in-between the ceiling and floors (maybe a semi solid sheet) with properties to block, push and move that sound or degrade it so it acts realistically (muffled), like a script or something, or bend it and throw it off course to a gap or opening where its faintly heard, (ex-) as if it creeps round openings and gaps… bourgeois attic the trap door but the sound is in the middle of the triangle arch area where the sound starts filling the volume around it, sound almost only audible as its carried on the wind (travels a set radius reacting to geometry guiding it intelligently) (modulated if you want I guess, eerie), so by only investigating and coming across an enemy you know what it was (the surprise and the creepiness captured)

    3. *some sounds in thievery were to clear with both distance range and nearness how they went through walls didn’t fade in volume or utilize distance delay effects reverb echoing etc was disappointing, and realistically the linear side of sound in tut was just packages that had no soul being played that felt a bit off (bow half way across the map sounding closer than it actually was) what radius will people be able to hear things from?, (zone info properties) increase radius of sound in this area etc, anything like that1? Realism.

    4. (Team chat built in to ut04 iirc) ut3 I don’t know, how about the microphone input source uses eax effects (mapped in?), would be a great implementation in sewers and tunnels, or echo throughout the streets, when you speak in a certain zone your voice uses those effects.

    5. (Team chat overheard in the city streets of a map if thieves are close enough, should have a trail off effect with greater distances) while guards pass each other an update, (hard to explain in words what that can bring to NB, like the start of that TDS map lions head sconce.

    6. Another game play point to bring up is, when relaying information and using realism, text is something you can’t govern or stop as its needed, or is it!?, but a serious leap canceling it out for NB, probably will never happen. However you could talk and type to all after games, then again integrated team chat using microphones overrides canceling text indefinitely, BUT if the game was based on communications within range and players could only type after game or specs use whisper you then have REALISM and then have a game playing out how it would using real world rules, you wouldn’t need alert delay or horrid looking text on your screen, you could talk and worry about thieves over hearing, and have a team text and voice chat section when the clock counts down to the map starting.

    7. crosshair aiming at a player of the same team, how about a taunt feature that acts as a whistle within certain range, just a bolt sized 2 by 2 unit thick projectile invisible to game, sound source to communicate quickly, (London police whistles 1900) get the idea, stereo should pick up direction in headphones!

    8. Stress point in floorboards for crawling creeping sound instead of footsteps, metal surfaces react too much weight on a surface causes different sound, surface sounds recorded specifically, so a concealed thief adding weight on a mapped area surface as a guard travels through indicates more weight hidden by the dark, moving so slow the sound is stress on objects that would bend or react to weight, another sound for surfaces to consider impo, optional in sound properties, new dynamic.

    9. High end metallic sounds, need to be damn well nurfed, I’ve got a 24 bit crystallizer on my sound card, and thievery is sparkly already, really kills your ears, having a nice rounded sound is much more enjoyable.

    10. No objective sound or an option to turn that feature off or at least its sound (chasing thieves on the grass in the dark, interrupts game play), or how about no objective notification as a mapping option, must be a way to worm around it.

    11. Ear damage in game to characters that are struck, causes problems for the actual players listening, or temporarily distorts sound, damage to the side of the head, something like a lofi modulation effect.

    12. Previous idea about leaving notes scrolls in areas on the map if you didn’t have the ability to type in game or talk within range (later in information I will add), how about an option to voice over what your typing the game records a voice over of the scroll you typed something on and dropped, so when you Pick up a dropped note, you get the players voiced over notes play, capturing background game sounds as they speak and type it up, wind ambience etc not music files.
    Last edited by industrialism; 29th Apr 2008, 05:23 PM.

  • #2
    Quite a few of those things are impossible to do.

    We've already implemented sound propagation via the navigation system, so sounds are quieter if there is a wall blocking them (because they have to go around the wall), but pathing can be a little hit or miss so the effect needs to be somewhat subtle. I will review later, although any improvements would probably require extra work from mappers.
    Immortius' Forge

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    • #3
      The stress point idea sounds nice, could prolly be done with a modified trigger thingabob.

      1. Neato and already in? Cool
      2. After the first half sentence i got really interested in minute details on the webpage, like how the white space gets greyish silvery when i stare at it long
      3. Falls under that sound propagation thing i guess
      4. Nice..gimmick i guess
      5. Thief players able to overhear guards TS conversations and reverse? Sounds funky but most would prolly just use "external stuff" which cant be overheard (zzz) or just type in teamsay.
      6. Hmwah?
      7. Isnt that already in with the "Thief here!" stuff?
      8. See start
      9. "Stuff should be altered depending on my individual rig"? :p
      10. If ya like i guess
      11. Nah
      12. A little wax phonograph item like in Thief 2 where you can have Truart say his stuff over and over!

      Complicated long things make me feel stupid i need bullet points like this :
      1. Lasers
      2. You can jump around like some ninja and do walldodges woo
      3. Instakill backstabs for thieves with a dagger wee

      If you didnt want your ideas discussed ignore this
      My leet Thievery Map
      My leet UT3 Map
      My leet AS Map

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Schleicher View Post
        If you didnt want your ideas discussed ignore this
        If he didn't want his ideas discussed then it would be silly to post it here! har har har!
        ~TuF~

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        • #5
          It could be a wish list :L
          My leet Thievery Map
          My leet UT3 Map
          My leet AS Map

          Comment


          • #6
            On the sound issue, i dont know if it can be done in UT3, but it's definately a part of source. (all sounds beyond a wall, through a door are noticably muffled)
            Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

            Comment


            • #7
              Also the sound quality of UT99 (and TUT) was very low - 22.1khz. This means that high-frequencies could not be used in the sound effects, so a high-frequency filter to simulate muffliing (an obstacle blocking the sound, distant sound, etc.) would have been useless. There was just nothing to filter out.
              Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! ... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.

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              • #8
                I'm not sure if we can programatically muffle sounds, I will look into it.
                Immortius' Forge

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MontyPython View Post
                  Also the sound quality of UT99 (and TUT) was very low - 22.1khz. This means that high-frequencies could not be used in the sound effects, so a high-frequency filter to simulate muffliing (an obstacle blocking the sound, distant sound, etc.) would have been useless. There was just nothing to filter out.
                  An average human cannot hear any higher than 16Khz. A muffling band-pass would be ALOT lower than that, generally you can only hear very low bass through walls, doors etc, in the sub 200Hz~ range
                  Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thats like saying the average human only has 2 ears so we can't hear more than stereo
                    or live action movies are 30fps, what does it matter if UT3 is 60fps
                    I'd Be More Apathetic... If I Wasn't So Lethargic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You have to remember that due to James Browns law of earodynamics, that 22.1Khz digitised sound actually sounds like 11Khz to us mere analogue creatures. So that's 5Khz (or 40 Jezebels if you prefer Browns terminology) of unclear sound! Nowhere near the sub 200Hz but food for thought!
                      ..it's safer here.

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                      • #12
                        Jezebels? Is that like Dr Emmit Brown's "1.21 Jigawatts" needed for time travel?
                        I'd Be More Apathetic... If I Wasn't So Lethargic

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                        • #13
                          Similar, but it's imbued with funk instead of great scotts.
                          ..it's safer here.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by necros View Post
                            An average human cannot hear any higher than 16Khz. A muffling band-pass would be ALOT lower than that, generally you can only hear very low bass through walls, doors etc, in the sub 200Hz~ range
                            This:

                            Originally posted by Baz View Post
                            22.1Khz digitised sound actually sounds like 11Khz to us mere analogue creatures.
                            Exactly, and that's because sampling rate =/= max frequency. You need several captures to create a wave. So 44.1khz means 44 thousand captures per second (in 44/16, each capture is encoded on 16 bits). That's about just enough to encode a 20 hertz note.
                            Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! ... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by -KewlAzMe- View Post
                              Thats like saying the average human only has 2 ears so we can't hear more than stereo
                              or live action movies are 30fps, what does it matter if UT3 is 60fps
                              What I want to know is, how many fps is real life?

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