blackjack issues

[DocSkrilla]

Regarding blackjacking issues, I agree with KewlAzMe: I think the blackjack CAN be really really powerful. If the idea is to make thieves play more stealthily, maybe they could be allowed to blackjack guards, but instead of a killshot, the blackjack should actually be a blackjack, and it should knock the guards out of the game for a limited time. In addition to making the game more realistic, this chould, in theory, make the game more interesting and more Thief-like. It would allow for more strategy and place more emphasis on spherical thinking. Example: the thief is hidden in a shadow, and the guard's suspicious. While the guard searches for him, the thief comes out and blackjacks the guard. Normally the guard would be thrown out of the game, right? KO a live player basically does the same as killing him, right? What if, instead, the guard was just KO'ed and came back to life after 90 seconds? Interesting, neh? So the guard's view changes to a fixed cam-view showing only the KO'ed body (view can only yaw around the Y-axis, so the unconscious player doesn't see which way the thief went)... but the guard can be revived by a teammate. If the thief doesn't want guards finding their KO'ed teammate easily, thieves could hide their victims. As KewlAzMe says, it'd be like Metal Gear Solid 2, and a lot more interesting, especially for thieves who aren't good enough to ghost a level, but don't want to kill anybody, either. To sum it up:

• blackjacks KO players for long enough to make it a penalty, but not so long that people hate it (ex: around 90 seconds)
  
  opposing team can hide KO'ed players
  
  KO-cam only lets KO'ed players look at their bodies to avoid giving them unfair advantages (such as seeing in which direction attackers flee)
  
  teammates can wake players up
  
  to avoid abuse, you can't kill a KO'ed player

[LaughingRat]

Not altogether a bad idea, but the specifics need work. As it stands, the suggestion provides for 90 seconds of boredom and frustration for any guard who get's KO'd. How about the KO'd human respawns into an existing AI (as is done now), and when the time is up, the guard revives as a new AI?

[Taffergirl]

Regarding blackjacking issues, I agree with KewlAzMe: I think the blackjack CAN be really really powerful. If the idea is to make thieves play more stealthily, maybe they could be allowed to blackjack guards, but instead of a killshot, the blackjack should actually be a blackjack, and it should knock the guards out of the game for a limited time. In addition to making the game more realistic, this chould, in theory, make the game more interesting and more Thief-like. It would allow for more strategy and place more emphasis on spherical thinking. Example: the thief is hidden in a shadow, and the guard's suspicious. While the guard searches for him, the thief comes out and blackjacks the guard. Normally the guard would be thrown out of the game, right? KO a live player basically does the same as killing him, right? What if, instead, the guard was just KO'ed and came back to life after 90 seconds? Interesting, neh? So the guard's view changes to a fixed cam-view showing only the KO'ed body (view can only yaw around the Y-axis, so the unconscious player doesn't see which way the thief went)... but the guard can be revived by a teammate. If the thief doesn't want guards finding their KO'ed teammate easily, thieves could hide their victims. As KewlAzMe says, it'd be like Metal Gear Solid 2, and a lot more interesting, especially for thieves who aren't good enough to ghost a level, but don't want to kill anybody, either. To sum it up:

• blackjacks KO players for long enough to make it a penalty, but not so long that people hate it (ex: around 90 seconds)
  
  opposing team can hide KO'ed players
  
  KO-cam only lets KO'ed players look at their bodies to avoid giving them unfair advantages (such as seeing in which direction attackers flee)
  
  teammates can wake players up
  
  to avoid abuse, you can't kill a KO'ed player

You've obviously never been blackjacked before irl.

Thievery games don't normally last more than 10 minutes, and an unconscious person after being beaned could be out for hours. Irl.

Especially if you aim for the part of the skull on the side of the head, just above the ear. It's where the skull is thinnest.

Get yourself whonked there and you're out like a light.

[Yenzarill]

Who cares what happens in real life. Lets make a fun and interesting game.

[DocSkrilla]

Not altogether a bad idea, but the specifics need work. As it stands, the suggestion provides for 90 seconds of boredom and frustration for any guard who get's KO'd. How about the KO'd human respawns into an existing AI (as is done now), and when the time is up, the guard revives as a new AI?

hrm.. okay, but what's to stop the human from running to the last spot he remembers before being blackjacked and waking up the AI? while there's less of a penalty for the human guard, it creates more of a penalty for thieves, because as soon as they blackjack people, it creates an instant alert. i was thinking of a way to let thieves go undected through a level without killing people.. is there a way to do that?

You've obviously never been blackjacked before irl.

You won't believe it, because it's too much of a coincidence (nor do I expect you to) but I have. New York's still a seedy town, and I was up in the industrial area in the upper east side, near harlem (we were at a rave in one of the abandoned warehouses) the doctor said that, in layman's terms, the bone in that part of my skull was bruised. That sounds pretty wonky to me-- bones aren't supposed to bruise. But I digress. What I mean to say is this: have you seen people hanging around in dark corners with light gems? But wouldn't it be interesting in the game to actually be able to KO people?

Who cares what happens in real life. Lets make a fun and interesting game.

fo sheezy!

[Slappy]

You've obviously never been blackjacked before irl.

Thievery games don't normally last more than 10 minutes, and an unconscious person after being beaned could be out for hours. Irl.

Especially if you aim for the part of the skull on the side of the head, just above the ear. It's where the skull is thinnest.

Get yourself whonked there and you're out like a light.

And you've obviously never played Thievery. It allows you to KO by hitting a guy in the back, the back of the legs, or anywhere on the back of the head. It also counts as a KO on the side of the body, the side of the legs, or side of the head.

How long would you be KO'ed for if someone hit you in the back of the legs, or your back?

EDIT: oops, I like to post at least a little on topic. I think the idea is a good one, but from what I've heard, something like it is already planned for 1.3. It's about time for a serious change to the blackjack - there's something seriously wrong with the game when a power attack with a blackjack does more damage and is MUCH easier to hit with than a power attack with a sword or mace.

[LaughingRat]

hrm.. okay, but what's to stop the human from running to the last spot he remembers before being blackjacked and waking up the AI? while there's less of a penalty for the human guard, it creates more of a penalty for thieves, because as soon as they blackjack people, it creates an instant alert. i was thinking of a way to let thieves go undected through a level without killing people.. is there a way to do that?

There is a way to do that. Most people who do it call it "ghosting". I see what you're working at, though. I just think it's going to make for a very unfun experience for those guards that get KO'd and have to sit out for a while. 90 seconds may not seem like long, but it's an eternity when you're waiting to get back in a game. I also think the thief doing the KO'ing deserves more than a 90 second reprieve for his efforts. And allowing the KO'd player to respawn as an AI immediately will make a thief think twice about whether or not they want to KO a guard. Much as it is now, actually, with a KO'd player immediately respawning, with (of course) knowledge of where he was KO'd.

[Taffergirl]

You've obviously never been blackjacked before irl.

Thievery games don't normally last more than 10 minutes, and an unconscious person after being beaned could be out for hours. Irl.

Especially if you aim for the part of the skull on the side of the head, just above the ear. It's where the skull is thinnest.

Get yourself whonked there and you're out like a light.

And you've obviously never played Thievery. It allows you to KO by hitting a guy in the back, the back of the legs, or anywhere on the back of the head. It also counts as a KO on the side of the body, the side of the legs, or side of the head.

How long would you be KO'ed for if someone hit you in the back of the legs, or your back?

EDIT: oops, I like to post at least a little on topic. I think the idea is a good one, but from what I've heard, something like it is already planned for 1.3. It's about time for a serious change to the blackjack - there's something seriously wrong with the game when a power attack with a blackjack does more damage and is MUCH easier to hit with than a power attack with a sword or mace.

It's true. I haven't been playing Thievery for very long, or very often.

But I have been playing long enough to win a few missions, with a fairly high sneak rating as well I might add.

And since I'm one of those 'blackjack whores', I'm fairly versed in how the blackjack works as well as how it doesn't work.

I know, for instance, that you can't blackjack from the side. You have to be directly in behind your intended target, or it won't work.

Secondly, It's been my impression that the majority of the people involved in this forum want to add more realism to the game.

As for knocking people out by hitting them on the back of the leg, I've never had that experience.

[KewlAzMe]

The real problem is: my idea was better... LOL

Actually.. if you KO the guard for 90 secs... first of all they will be bored... but second of alll.. since you are leaving the "Wake by friendly shake" in there.. all i gotta do is whiper or shout where I am to my teammates to come wake me up.

Its best to leave them KO'd for maybe. 5-7 minutes...and respawn into another body.... this way they come back if you take too long, but if you are quick, then it will play just like today. SO if you have only 2 guards left and feel proud that you are almost done, watchout, take too long and a few more guards are coming back to ya. Now when these guards come back.. they will have only half as much life since they have one hell of a head injury, and will start out with only default things like a sword, 10 bolts, 3 flares. So they have the advantage of coming back to life.. but at half life.. and I guess you could make it that if you do it again, or maybe 3 times.. they won't come back at all since their head will be swelled up like a basketball.

[LegalAssassin]

That's a bad idea. It'd encourage swordtaffing.

[LaughingRat]

That's a bad idea. It'd encourage swordtaffing.

Not if you nerf the sword, too.

[KewlAzMe]

yea..this is actually more good than bad... most players that currently aren't sword theives.. wont switch to the sword just because guards wake up more. If anything it will force them to get better to get stuff done before the guard wakes up.

[LaughingRat]

yea..this is actually more good than bad... most players that currently aren't sword theives.. wont switch to the sword just because guards wake up more. If anything it will force them to get better to get stuff done before the guard wakes up.

Or stand over him and whack him again when he comes to....

[KewlAzMe]

LOL YES! this too would be fun!..

Guard waking up:"........Oh my aching ...ARRRGGH.......ZZZZzzzz"

[LaughingRat]

LOL YES! this too would be fun!..

Guard waking up:"........Oh my aching ...ARRRGGH.......ZZZZzzzz"

Reminds me of the closing scene in the movie "Burgular".