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  • Some idea's

    Some of these have been posted before, but I just worked them out a little more.

    Speed bonus/penalties

    Thieves who are 10% or less visible, get a speed bonus of 30%... but only when they are not holding a weapon (BJ/Sword/Bow). This will promote sneakiness.

    Guards who are in shadows where thieves can go 10% or less visible, will suffer a 15% speed penalty... regardless of the fact whether they're holding a weapon or not. This indicates the guard is wary of a shadow and is reluctant to run through it on top speed.
    Tagged guards or guards with lighted flares do not suffer from the penalty.


    Fire tagging
    Guards will not be able to catch on fire. Instead, they will only take damage for running over it. To balance it out, the fire should do 150% the normal damage.
    Using tag arrows to tag a guard will still be possible, because the Tag arrow uses a "magical" source of light.


    Anti DM/Circlestrafe measures
    Thieves who take damage will drop any melee weapon (BJ/sword) they were holding. The dropped weapon will not fall on the ground, but they will put it away to their inventory again, so they will be barehanded (encouraging them to flee rather than fight). This way, DM'ing will still be possible, but it will take skill and clever use of shadows rather than *click* *click* *click* *KO/Kill*


    Invisibility Inaccuracy
    Thieves who are 0% visible have a 50% chance to not be hit by any melee weapon.
    This resembles the fact that the guard cannot see the thief and therefor suffers from inaccuracy.
    Bolts of any kind will allways hit, since they allready suffer from the inacurracy of the person firing them.

    NonCombat Invisibility
    Thieves swallowing an invis. potion will automattically put away the weapons they were holding. Readying a weapon cancels the invisibility effect.

    Heavy Crack arrows
    Crack arrows are heavy because of the gas/drug patch on the tip. Therefor they should behave like water arrows (shorter range).

    Crack = speed?
    Cracked guards or thieves should run a little faster than they do now... this way cracked guards fall of off buildings easier, but they are harder to snipe.
    Rats cannot be cracked.

    Breathing potion
    Swallowing a breathing potion will silence the thieves screams for as long as the breathing lasts... IE: They will not scream whenever they take damage.
    Swallowing a breathing potion will also allow thieves to swallow other potions without making the *gulp* noise.

    Dousable tags
    A tagged person should be able to put himself out with a water arrow.

    Helmets
    Helmet cost = 100
    Helmets should halve the duration effects of both Crack Arrows and Flashbombs.
    Edit: Also, helmets should be repairable... if a friendly guard aims at your head and you have (had) a destroyed helmet (maybe change the model so it really shows a loused up helmet with pieces missing and some dents) he can reapi it with the repair tool. AI helmets can not be repaired.

    Repair tools
    Repair tools should be able to relock lockpicked objects (same time as it took to lockpick them)

    NEW IDEA: Flares
    Guards should not be able to carry more than the default amount of three flares.
    Dropping flares and loading more from the chest will not work anymore, and they will just get the message "You cannot carry anymore flares".
    The only way for guards to obtain more flares is to buy extra ones at the start of the round. If the guard buys one extra flare, his limit will be raised to four instead of three, the chest will then allways restock his flares to four instead of three as well.
    Extra flare cost: 20

    Just my two cents. Feel free to comment.

  • #2
    Fire tagging

    Invisibility Inaccuracy

    I like these two.
    Kiech

    Comment


    • #3
      Speed bonus/penalty in darkness - Already suggested (by me, as it happens), a short while ago. It's not on the main page or anything, but the populous is aware of the idea.

      Fire tagging - Agreed, guards shouldn't catch on fire. Also, perhaps reduce the range of the random flame bits coming out of the main bit.

      Invisible dodging thingy - Wouldn't prevent shadowslashing. A guard swings about 3 - 5 times a second into the shadows, and as long as 1 hit is gotten, the thief is as good as dead unless he uses equipment. Besides, the guard could still run into a thief. All it would do is make thieves last twice as long if they quaffed invis.
      Suggestion: Miss chance is 80% with rapid swings but 10% or lower with charged swings.

      Breath potion -> Silent potion drinking is agreed with, perhaps with the drinking the breath potion being silent (It's a bottle of air!).

      Other points - more or less agreed with.
      M-M-M-M-MONSTER BLACKJACK... jack... jack... jack...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tieom
        Speed bonus/penalty in darkness - Already suggested (by me, as it happens), a short while ago. It's not on the main page or anything, but the populous is aware of the idea.
        True, but I felt like exploring the idea further. You did not suggest guards getting a speed penalty in shadows for instance. Plus I put the "Some of these idea's have allready been suggested by other people" line on top.

        Originally posted by Tieom
        Fire tagging - Agreed, guards shouldn't catch on fire. Also, perhaps reduce the range of the random flame bits coming out of the main bit.
        Hmm, I think the range should be the same... powerfull as the firebolt is, when you look at it price/quality, it is no match for the tag arrow. The firebolt should have a large range to offset the fact that the tag bolt is cheaper.

        Originally posted by Tieom
        Invisible dodging thingy - Wouldn't prevent shadowslashing. A guard swings about 3 - 5 times a second into the shadows, and as long as 1 hit is gotten, the thief is as good as dead unless he uses equipment. Besides, the guard could still run into a thief. All it would do is make thieves last twice as long if they quaffed invis.
        Suggestion: Miss chance is 80% with rapid swings but 10% or lower with charged swings.
        Again, I don't agree. On it's own, this idea might not prevent shadowslashing... but when you implement the speed bonus/penalties, this idea might just work.
        Remember, 1 out of 2 attacks is a lot, and when guards suffer a speed penalty in the dark as well, they might consider lighting up the area first, instead of shadowslashing it.

        Originally posted by Tieom
        Breath potion -> Silent potion drinking is agreed with, perhaps with the drinking the breath potion being silent (It's a bottle of air!).


        When you have the potion give the effect of not making the gul'p sound, and you give it to the potion itself as well, it becomes one hell of an overpowered ghosting weapon... And it's not a bottle of air, the description clearly says Breathing potion.

        Originally posted by Tieom
        [b]Other points - more or less agreed with.
        I added a new idea concerning flares.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by -=V12US=-
          Rats cannot be cracked.


          Boo this idea.
          Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
          "Dream is Destiny"
          Waking Life

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Curunir
            Originally posted by -=V12US=-
            Rats cannot be cracked.


            Boo this idea.
            Either give them crack immunity, or fix the bug that screws up your screen when you get cracked as a rat.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by -=V12US=-
              Dousable tags
              A tagged person should be able to put himself out with a water arrow.

              Helmets
              Helmet cost = 100
              Helmets should halve the duration effects of both Crack Arrows and Flashbombs.

              Repair tools
              Repair tools should be able to relock lockpicked objects (same time as it took to lockpick them)
              I disagree on the dousable tags, and would actually like to see tags not doused when the thief jumps in the water, as well. Either that or, if tags are fire-based, they should burn the thief while he's tagged.

              Your helmet idea would be cool if they didn't break so easily.

              I don't know about doors/locks in the past, but nowadays, for many things you don't need a key (or picks) to lock them. On modern doors you just turn the knob in the middle of the handle (or some other mechanism) - no key required to re-lock. So I'd change your idea to be:
              Any door that can be opened by a guard while locked, is automatically re-locked when a guard closes it. The repair kit can be used like an "unlockpick" to lock any other lock-able item. (if a lockpick unlocks something, then an unlockpick must lock it, right?)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Slappy
                I disagree on the dousable tags, and would actually like to see tags not doused when the thief jumps in the water, as well. Either that or, if tags are fire-based, they should burn the thief while he's tagged.
                Hmmm, point. Though when tags would also work underwater, they'd get awfully powerfull... they're dirt cheap as is.

                Originally posted by Slappy
                Your helmet idea would be cool if they didn't break so easily.
                2-0 Slappy, I added the ability to repair helmets to the idea.

                Originally posted by Slappy
                I don't know about doors/locks in the past, but nowadays, for many things you don't need a key (or picks) to lock them. On modern doors you just turn the knob in the middle of the handle (or some other mechanism) - no key required to re-lock. So I'd change your idea to be:
                Any door that can be opened by a guard while locked, is automatically re-locked when a guard closes it. The repair kit can be used like an "unlockpick" to lock any other lock-able item. (if a lockpick unlocks something, then an unlockpick must lock it, right?)
                Sounds a little too powerfull if guards can just lock doors again by opening/clocing them. Thieves have a hard time getting through the doors allready, with guards playing the open/close game... Imagine if they'd have to lockpick the door again every time a guard closed it on them. Oh the horror! :O

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think too many of these ideas are making thieves more powerful, and too few are helping out guards.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Heavy crack arrows - they already ARE heavy, just not as much as water arrows.
                    The only constant is change.
                    (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok, now that I have a little more time, I am going over this one by one, my marks area in red.

                      Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                      Some of these have been posted before, but I just worked them out a little more.

                      So noted.

                      Speed bonus/penalties

                      Thieves who are 10% or less visible, get a speed bonus of 30%... but only when they are not holding a weapon (BJ/Sword/Bow). This will promote sneakiness.

                      Guards who are in shadows where thieves can go 10% or less visible, will suffer a 15% speed penalty... regardless of the fact whether they're holding a weapon or not. This indicates the guard is wary of a shadow and is reluctant to run through it on top speed.
                      Tagged guards or guards with lighted flares do not suffer from the penalty.

                      No. Thieves are getting a speed bonus already in 1.3 reportedly. There is no special foundation in physics as to why someone would move slower or faster in darkness. Lets take the new speed boost and be done with it.

                      Fire tagging
                      Guards will not be able to catch on fire. Instead, they will only take damage for running over it. To balance it out, the fire should do 150% the normal damage.
                      Using tag arrows to tag a guard will still be possible, because the Tag arrow uses a "magical" source of light.

                      Great idea. But mind you, this goes along with my 'lets turn on friendly fire' thread. The only guard you can hurt with your firebolt is yourself.

                      Anti DM/Circlestrafe measures
                      Thieves who take damage will drop any weapon (bow/BJ/sword) they were holding. The dropped weapon will not fall on the ground, but they will put it away to their inventory again, so they will be barehanded (encouraging them to flee rather than fight). This way, DM'ing will still be possible, but it will take skill and clever use of shadows rather than *click* *click* *click* *KO/Kill*

                      No, no, no. The BJ is already being nerfed in 1.3. Lets see what the difference is before we make another change.

                      Invisibility Inaccuracy
                      Thieves who are 0% visible have a 50% chance to not be hit by any melee weapon.
                      This resembles the fact that the guard cannot see the thief and therefor suffers from inaccuracy.
                      Bolts of any kind will allways hit, since they allready suffer from the inacurracy of the person firing them.

                      Love it. Hey, another idea that has its roots in me. Go figure that I would be supporting this one.

                      NonCombat Invisibility
                      Thieves swallowing an invis. potion will automattically put away the weapons they were holding. Readying a weapon cancels the invisibility effect.

                      No, not necessary. The thief loses his invisibility already when he uses his weapon, which is a better compromise.

                      Heavy Crack arrows
                      Crack arrows are heavy because of the gas/drug patch on the tip. Therefor they should behave like water arrows (shorter range).

                      They already use gravity don't they? Am I missing something on this? Do you want them heavier? If so, I still fail to see the point.

                      Crack = speed?
                      Cracked guards or thieves should run a little faster than they do now... this way cracked guards fall of off buildings easier, but they are harder to snipe.
                      Rats cannot be cracked.

                      The cracking system works well aready IMHO. I don't see how this change will really help out either side.

                      Breathing potion
                      Swallowing a breathing potion will silence the thieves screams for as long as the breathing lasts... IE: They will not scream whenever they take damage.
                      Swallowing a breathing potion will also allow thieves to swallow other potions without making the *gulp* noise.

                      Yea, its a potion, so its going to make that annoying sound. I think that sound should be lowered though.

                      Dousable tags
                      A tagged person should be able to put himself out with a water arrow.

                      Indifferent on this one. But the guards do need a way to tag thieves effectively. Maybe we should wait and see on 1.3 here.

                      Helmets
                      Helmet cost = 100
                      Helmets should halve the duration effects of both Crack Arrows and Flashbombs.
                      Edit: Also, helmets should be repairable... if a friendly guard aims at your head and you have (had) a destroyed helmet (maybe change the model so it really shows a loused up helmet with pieces missing and some dents) he can reapi it with the repair tool. AI helmets can not be repaired.

                      I don't think this is a good idea. The helmet is only there to give thieves a headache when trying to KO. Again, the nerf will probably quell any concerns you have here.

                      Repair tools
                      Repair tools should be able to relock lockpicked objects (same time as it took to lockpick them)

                      Good use for the tools, but the game only lasts so long, and the kicker here is that gaurds tend to have a 'place' to drop off thier tools for all to use - even after they have died, thieves don't typically have that option. I think it would just drag games out in the long run.

                      NEW IDEA: Flares
                      Guards should not be able to carry more than the default amount of three flares.
                      Dropping flares and loading more from the chest will not work anymore, and they will just get the message "You cannot carry anymore flares".
                      The only way for guards to obtain more flares is to buy extra ones at the start of the round. If the guard buys one extra flare, his limit will be raised to four instead of three, the chest will then allways restock his flares to four instead of three as well.
                      Extra flare cost: 20

                      The cost of flares should stay the same, or be no less than 30 to compete with water arrows. What is the top limit now, 10? I think this would be a good thing, but I have been re-considering my previous approval of this idea. I mass-produce flares whenever I can, but truthfully, it never quite helps as much as it really should. If I get to the point were I have enough flares for all of the other guards to be able to flarescan the entire map with, the thieves are usually done anyways.

                      Just my two cents. Feel free to comment.
                      I felt free.

                      Kiech Bepho
                      Irishman
                      CTG Probie
                      www.thecrackaz.com
                      Kiech

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                        Originally posted by Curunir
                        Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                        Rats cannot be cracked.


                        Boo this idea.
                        Either give them crack immunity, or fix the bug that screws up your screen when you get cracked as a rat.


                        Never had a problem with being cracked before as a rat. What's the problem?
                        Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
                        "Dream is Destiny"
                        Waking Life

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Curunir
                          Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                          Originally posted by Curunir
                          Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                          Rats cannot be cracked.
                          Boo this idea.
                          Either give them crack immunity, or fix the bug that screws up your screen when you get cracked as a rat.
                          Never had a problem with being cracked before as a rat. What's the problem?
                          You can see your ass afterwards, quite the problem if you ask me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                            Some of these have been posted before, but I just worked them out a little more.

                            Speed bonus/penalties

                            Thieves who are 10% or less visible, get a speed bonus of 30%... but only when they are not holding a weapon (BJ/Sword/Bow). This will promote sneakiness.

                            Guards who are in shadows where thieves can go 10% or less visible, will suffer a 15% speed penalty... regardless of the fact whether they're holding a weapon or not. This indicates the guard is wary of a shadow and is reluctant to run through it on top speed.
                            Tagged guards or guards with lighted flares do not suffer from the penalty.

                            Interesting idea. No further comment than that

                            Fire tagging
                            Guards will not be able to catch on fire. Instead, they will only take damage for running over it. To balance it out, the fire should do 150% the normal damage.
                            Using tag arrows to tag a guard will still be possible, because the Tag arrow uses a "magical" source of light.

                            Good idea, since thieves are still highly flammable

                            Anti DM/Circlestrafe measures
                            Thieves who take damage will drop any weapon (bow/BJ/sword) they were holding. The dropped weapon will not fall on the ground, but they will put it away to their inventory again, so they will be barehanded (encouraging them to flee rather than fight). This way, DM'ing will still be possible, but it will take skill and clever use of shadows rather than *click* *click* *click* *KO/Kill*

                            Okay, except they shouldn't drop the sword. And then of course, we have to add unarmed combat

                            Invisibility Inaccuracy
                            Thieves who are 0% visible have a 50% chance to not be hit by any melee weapon.
                            This resembles the fact that the guard cannot see the thief and therefor suffers from inaccuracy.
                            Bolts of any kind will allways hit, since they allready suffer from the inacurracy of the person firing them.

                            Hmmm, may be a good idea

                            NonCombat Invisibility
                            Thieves swallowing an invis. potion will automattically put away the weapons they were holding. Readying a weapon cancels the invisibility effect.

                            With the BJ nerf, is this necessary?

                            Heavy Crack arrows
                            Crack arrows are heavy because of the gas/drug patch on the tip. Therefor they should behave like water arrows (shorter range).

                            I thought they already had abysmal range; less than water arrows.

                            Crack = speed?
                            Cracked guards or thieves should run a little faster than they do now... this way cracked guards fall of off buildings easier, but they are harder to snipe.
                            Rats cannot be cracked.

                            Hmm, maybe. But rat cracking MUST STAY!

                            Breathing potion
                            Swallowing a breathing potion will silence the thieves screams for as long as the breathing lasts... IE: They will not scream whenever they take damage.
                            Swallowing a breathing potion will also allow thieves to swallow other potions without making the *gulp* noise.

                            VERY nice, as long as there are no upcoming levels with large amounts of water.

                            Dousable tags
                            A tagged person should be able to put himself out with a water arrow.

                            Yeah, I think he should

                            Helmets
                            Helmet cost = 100
                            Helmets should halve the duration effects of both Crack Arrows and Flashbombs.
                            Edit: Also, helmets should be repairable... if a friendly guard aims at your head and you have (had) a destroyed helmet (maybe change the model so it really shows a loused up helmet with pieces missing and some dents) he can reapi it with the repair tool. AI helmets can not be repaired.

                            Just make the helmet not be made out of glass

                            Repair tools
                            Repair tools should be able to relock lockpicked objects (same time as it took to lockpick them)

                            That'd be pretty cool. Need to raise the price of the repair tool or lower the price of lockpicks though.

                            NEW IDEA: Flares
                            Guards should not be able to carry more than the default amount of three flares.
                            Dropping flares and loading more from the chest will not work anymore, and they will just get the message "You cannot carry anymore flares".
                            The only way for guards to obtain more flares is to buy extra ones at the start of the round. If the guard buys one extra flare, his limit will be raised to four instead of three, the chest will then allways restock his flares to four instead of three as well.
                            Extra flare cost: 20

                            That'd be excellent.

                            Just my two cents. Feel free to comment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                              Some of these have been posted before, but I just worked them out a little more.

                              Speed bonus/penalties

                              Thieves who are 10% or less visible, get a speed bonus of 30%... but only when they are not holding a weapon (BJ/Sword/Bow). This will promote sneakiness.

                              Guards who are in shadows where thieves can go 10% or less visible, will suffer a 15% speed penalty... regardless of the fact whether they're holding a weapon or not. This indicates the guard is wary of a shadow and is reluctant to run through it on top speed.
                              Tagged guards or guards with lighted flares do not suffer from the penalty.
                              Wooohooo! Now, I can run into the shadows, have guards follow me, then draw the BJ, still be as fast as a guard, and KO them to hell!

                              Comment

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