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ATTN: NEW INFO on the SUPER AI

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  • ATTN: NEW INFO on the SUPER AI

    New info I found on the Super AI sight.

    I ran some scenarios to get more info on this bug. Both of these Scenarios were run at the NORMAL guard intelligence.

    It seems that once the AI gets his sights on you at lets say 20% visibility... He will have a lock on to you until you drop to 9% or lower; or until you run a certain distance away.

    Scenario 1:
    Ran past 2 AI in the dark without BJ, 12% visibility.
    Both AI heard me and began searching for me with flares and rude comments. I had my main focus glued to the visibility percentage and know that I never got light enough to go above 12%. I watched where I was running with my peripheral vision. In between flare scans, the AI never saw me once in the dark during my 12% runs unless I got right in there face.

    So next, When they flared, I got close enough to raise my visibility to 35%, they saw me and took a shot at me; i immediately jumped back to 12% area and I ran a full circle around a tree. They both missed me with their bolts and I began running through the field, still at 12%. This time, AI kept shooting at me and both hit me. Now I was a good distance away when they finally hit me and they continued chasing me until I dropped below 10%. A human guard at that range shouldn't be able to see me, especially not with that shot accuracy. Once I dropped below 10%, only for a second, they went back to the "Where'd he go?" lines. Repeated it again the same way but in 3rd person mode to see exactly what I looked like to them. Although I could a faint glimpse of me, there is no chance that anyone more than 5 feet away could see me.

    Scenario 2:
    Tried the exact same routine with the Blackjack out. Therefore my visibility while running would be at 10% instead of 12%. Same effect. Even at 10%, once I got my visibility up to about 35% and right back down to 10%, the AI still saw me until I went to 9% or below even far down the field.


    Now in both situations.. if I kept running eventually I would have out ran the guards and they wouldn't see me anymore. But I had to run a certain distance before they would let their guard down.

    Resolution: Tweak the distance so that the farther they are, the less chance of hit with the first bolt or 2, then have their Aim get better...just like a real human... or fix this lock on crap.

    ALSO: Very important fix. AI needs a delay set for them after pulling out the crossbow. It has come to my attention that AI can drop a flare, pull out a crossbow, shoot the crossbow with perfect aim and hit a thief.. All before that dropped flare even hits the ground. Same goes with the mace. They can swing the mace before that flare hits the ground.

  • #2
    I think this is Kewls way of saying he sucks at thievery and in order to help him out the ai should be set back to Benny.

    Really, you just gotta adept your style a little... Theyre not that tough!
    "There's no problem that can't be solved with a big crate!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Better resolution: Make the visibility-limit of the AI proportional to the distance they are from the player. Ie. closer-up guards should be able to spot thieves at a lower visibility, than further away guards.

      Comment


      • #4
        Bloody- umm yea.
        */me waits for someone with intelligence higher than Benny to respond*


        Dan- yea thats what i was saying in a large nut shell. Up close they see me, bbut far away they still see me... that needs to be nerfed.

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        • #5
          Once I've spotted a thief there are a few very dark areas where I can't track them well enough to get an accurate crossbow target until they go behind something or drop below that 10%. The only time range becomes an issue is when they are so far away that I have to work out the quirky bolt arc and hw much higher I need to aim to hit them, which isn't even an issue on some maps it's so far.

          They're fine the way they are because, unlike me, they don't hunt you down and finish you off....
          One of the three LANers of the Apocalypse!
          -
          The Unforgiven Casual Gaming Group - New Members Welcome

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          • #6
            FAIL. You cant hit a thief running side to side, and like you said, you need to adjust arc after a certain distance which is automatically done for the AI. Ruling on the field still stands. BUG.

            Comment


            • #7
              I ended up playing 1.3 for about 12 hours straght over the weekend:

              More than a few times the bots saw me, I continued to run around a corner and duck into a LARGE shadow... 10 seconds later, the bot runs around the corner, straght up to me, and smacks me with the mace... grrrr...
              It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BiG_D
                I ended up playing 1.3 for about 12 hours straght over the weekend:

                More than a few times the bots saw me, I continued to run around a corner and duck into a LARGE shadow... 10 seconds later, the bot runs around the corner, straght up to me, and smacks me with the mace... grrrr...
                Thats ok.. somewhat..

                A human guard would do the same thing. But Straight up to you without pulling a flare would be the bug there. But that may be the only way to get the AI to chase you that well... I think that can be adapted to.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  The thing is, it really can't be countered, I would try moving, but he would just change his direction... What really bugs me is that I had been out of his sight for so long that he shouldn't really know if I kept running or if I had stopped in the shadow.
                  It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

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                  • #10
                    UPDATE: After Extensive Testing (extensive being a relative term) in both Normal and Clever modes... it has occured to me that Normal mode in 1.3 is the equivalent of Genius in 1.2. Guards dont search well, they do have heightened hearing, however they dont use common sense. I KO'd 6 in a row as they ran up the stairs, not a flare was lit among the falling bodies.

                    I switched up to Clever Mode, Guards are much smarter, and I tried the same trick again with KOing them as they ran up the stairs. This time, after the First body dropped, 2 of them Lit flares and walked around searching. The Super vision also took a little hold, though not as bad as Genius.

                    After playing in all modes from Benny to Genius, I have figured out the main problem that I think EVERYONE will agree with:

                    Overall Problem: AI can switch weapons way too fast. There needs to be a delay between weapon switching, flare dropping, etc. When an AI pulls a flare and sees a thief right next to him, he can wield the mace before his flare hits the ground, and before the thief can go from crouching to standing. I also think its wielded at Charged-up strength. Same with the Crossbow, if they are flaring and you take off when they get too close. They can shoot you with precision aim before their flare hits the ground. Human gaurds can not do this, The uber aim is one thing, but I think the real problem is that a thief is hit as soon as he is spotted with AI because there is no delay, Humans have to react and switch weapon, wait for the weapon to be pulled out, and then aim. If AI had a delay, thieves would at least have the chance to run behind an object before uber aim could rape them.

                    Easy solution: Delay time between AI switching from from flare to xbow to mace. Make it the same delay that humans have (about 1.4 seconds). And perhaps if they see a thief running, make the AI run in that direction while switching weapons. This will simulate much better Human activity. Perhaps if they see/bump a thief, they jump backwards as they are switching weapons. Similar to the Jump'n'spin thing that veteran guards do. While the second part of this may take thought on design, the delay time between weapons should take no more than 2 minutes to change.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Uber AI don't actually bother me *That* much, however....

                      A noob, playing the game online is gonna get SO whipped, he's not going to stand a snowball in hells chance of even passing ONE AI, which means they may be disheartened and not continue playing this great mod, which is thier loss, and ours.

                      I totally agree with what Kewl has suggested, there should be a delay.

                      Like it of not, bots will NEVER be as creative, nor as cunning as Human players, and as such I think thier super aiming ability is a good substitute for this. I know I personally want them to be a good shot, as I'd rather have them stand ground and snipe than run in and get KO'd.

                      BUT.... at the moment they are hitting people whom would otherwise be near impossible to hit, a thief running miles away, ok, we all make lucky shots, and I myself have made dubious shots too, I've ran into a big room knowing a thief had just entered, and shot where "i'd hide" at hit them, slap bang in the face, but these are rare, and pure luck.

                      There's very little time for pre-emption with the bots at the moment, especially if you've got a little lag, say 400ping, the bots whip out their bows in less than that and fire, BAM, your tagged. at least with the 1.4 second change, the player has a tiny amount of time to say, duck behind that table or whatever.

                      Like I said, the bots don't personally bother ME as such, I love the challenge but I'm paranoid that the constantly rising standard of play coming from the people online (Many of our players now are so good, it's a joy to watch them) we're going to just make the curve so steep we're going to drive away new intreast.

                      Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that with practice you get better and better, and you can't just pick up the game and away you go, your the best, I remember somebody saying the went on Counter-Strike and they owned a server for a few hours, *I DON'T WANT THAT* I like the effort I put into the game to shine on those games where I'm lucky, where my skill can shine, I'm sure all of us have been the last guy, the last theif, and all the spectators are all shouting "GG", and you pull every trick you know, you slip past and get that gem/lye/book/ruby and you escape... the feeling of your heart pounding and the relief when you win and the spectators congratulate you... I don't want to loose that.

                      Anyway, it seems I've drifted WAY off topic, so I'll stop here.

                      Thanks for reading..... I know it's a long one!
                      ~TuF~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheMachine
                        The Uber AI don't actually bother me *That* much, however....

                        Like it of not, bots will NEVER be as creative, nor as cunning as Human players, and as such I think thier super aiming ability is a good substitute for this. I know I personally want them to be a good shot, as I'd rather have them stand ground and snipe than run in and get KO'd.

                        There's very little time for pre-emption with the bots at the moment, especially if you've got a little lag, say 400ping, the bots whip out their bows in less than that and fire, BAM, your tagged. at least with the 1.4 second change, the player has a tiny amount of time to say, duck behind that table or whatever.
                        I totally agree...AI makes up for its cunningness (?) by have the super shot, but without a delay that makes it ridiculous. I think the Super Aim would be allowed to slide for most people if there was a delay added in that gave people a chance to get behind something when possible. Good stuff Machine.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is some more data for you. The map is Korman and Burger, and I am just playing with the AI's on godmode/loaded.

                          If you snipe a guard, and IF he has a tagbolt, regardless of which way he is facing, or what he has readied, you will be tagged instantly. So, the AI doesnt even need to aim IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION to pwn you!!!

                          I found that if they don't have a tagbolt, it gets a lot easier to snipe them. It appears that the tagbolt hit is just an automatic response, and independant of the AI itself. So: If you snipe the AI doesn't know you are there even though you have been just tagged. After a second he will, however see you, and then procede normally. So, if he has no tagbolts to hit you with, the AI will not get that magic shot on you.

                          This is no fun for blocking: The AI's use a charged-up swing EVERY SINGLE TIME, yet it doesn't take them anytime to charge thier weapon. Well, ok, I was able to block ONE hit from an AI, but I just assume that was a bug.

                          Some AI have the power to COME BACK FROM THE DEAD! I sniped the guest-lord in Burger...and about 5 min or so later, his clone appeared! Thats no good.

                          Oh, and the AI were able to see me after drinking an inviso pot after being tagged.

                          Kiech
                          Kiech

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yeah... The AI aim-turn faster than the game will let the model turn.

                            Also, Is it just me, or do AI bolts travel faster than human's?

                            And,
                            Oh, and the AI were able to see me after drinking an inviso pot after being tagged.
                            THAT realistically simulates what a human could do, at least. Maybe if inviso pots hid the 'tag effect' as well, then you could complain, but they hit you after you drink inviso anyways.
                            M-M-M-M-MONSTER BLACKJACK... jack... jack... jack...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tieom
                              Yeah... The AI aim-turn faster than the game will let the model turn.

                              Also, Is it just me, or do AI bolts travel faster than human's?

                              And,
                              Oh, and the AI were able to see me after drinking an inviso pot after being tagged.
                              THAT realistically simulates what a human could do, at least. Maybe if inviso pots hid the 'tag effect' as well, then you could complain, but they hit you after you drink inviso anyways.
                              Again: When the AI shoots you with a tag-bolt...he really isn't. It comes from his body, yes, it uses a tagbolt from his inventory, yes, but the AI doesn't actually shoot it at you. Just think of it this way: AI that carry tagbolts have a 'magical' spell enchanted over their tags to fly all by themselves into whatever taffer tried to snipe them. Now, it may look like the AI shot you, but he didn't. He didn't even know where you were till you were lit up.

                              As for the AI seeing you for a few moments after drinking an inviso, thats because the inviso doesn't always work right away. Instead you get a delayed 7 seconds of inviso.

                              Also: Drinking an inviso doesn't trick AI anymore if you are tagged. Thats a good change.

                              Kiech
                              www.thecrackaz.com
                              Kiech

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