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  • Black Jack too strong

    I think there should be an option to make the blackjack have an effect similar to crack if the guard is running when hit.

  • #2
    Any human guard that is worth their salt is almost always running. Just imagine if they knew that running would make them impossible to blackjack :?
    It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

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    • #3
      It doesnt make them impossible to blackjack. Its just means that thieves cant go around in a group wiping out all the guards. It means that a person new to the game who is guarding doesnt chase every thief for ages until he finally catches up, only to be bjed. Because of the usual delay that everyone suffers from its possible to swing round the back of an approaching guard before he can see it. If you are good enough you can KO any human guard instantly.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by SimpsonsChristmasBoogie
        It means that a person new to the game who is guarding doesnt chase every thief for ages until he finally catches up, only to be bjed.
        Unless there is some pressing reason (like they've just taken the last objective or something), you should not chase thieves very long, Its a bad idea, it takes you away from objectives and set you up to get CSed. I made that mistake, learned from it, then went back to the body, woke up the guard and enjoyed my free loadout...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SimpsonsChristmasBoogie
          It doesnt make them impossible to blackjack. Its just means that thieves cant go around in a group wiping out all the guards. It means that a person new to the game who is guarding doesnt chase every thief for ages until he finally catches up, only to be bjed. Because of the usual delay that everyone suffers from its possible to swing round the back of an approaching guard before he can see it. If you are good enough you can KO any human guard instantly.
          However, a guard has to only frob an unconscious body to re-wake him so imagine the following scenario:

          -Two guards, both human, staying together for safety
          -Kamikaze thief runs in & BJs one guard
          -Second guard instantly revives guard, before dealing with thief
          -There is no way that the thief will have time to BJ the second guard without being slaughtered by the revived AI that has appeared
          -BJ-ed Guard can respawn as that guard, or another guard

          -Overall effect: Thief risks getting hammered & achieves nothing
          -Moral of the story: Stays in groups. Team-work is what holds the guards together

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SimpsonsChristmasBoogie
            I think there should be an option to make the blackjack have an effect similar to crack if the guard is running when hit.
            \


            Sorry man, but terrible idea.
            Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
            "Dream is Destiny"
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            • #7
              Want to make a helmet a worthwhile buy? Implement this for helmetted guards. A charged blackjack hit produces this effect (wobbly vision and stumbling, as though cracked, but without the green). Second fully charged blackjack hit, while in this state knocks the guard out.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LaughingRat
                Want to make a helmet a worthwhile buy? Implement this for helmetted guards. A charged blackjack hit produces this effect (wobbly vision and stumbling, as though cracked, but without the green). Second fully charged blackjack hit, while in this state knocks the guard out.
                this is a good idea....the game already has a similar effect but doesn't last long....but i don't think uncontrolable stumbling should go with it just distorted vision...if you think about it if you get hit in the head you aren't going to run arouind like a lunatic in circles........and for the second part of it....the guards shouldn't have to be in the "dizzy" state to be knocked out...the helmet should fall apart..as it does already...and then the guard would then be able to be vulnerable.

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                • #9
                  You get hit hard enough in the head to make your vision go wonky, you'll be stumbling about, much like the crack effect. Besides, it's already coded.

                  I've always thought that helmets shouldn't shatter, anyway, that once you've bought one, you should keep it throughout that spawn, and that a charged blackjack hit should be required to KO you. But doing things this way, with the first charged hit disorienting, and the second being required for a KO would probably help cut down on the guard-thief confrontation some. If a thief has to hit a guard twice, and if after the first hit the guard is obviously going to be aware of the thief's presence and swinging wildly, that thief is going to think twice before attacking that guard.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LaughingRat
                    You get hit hard enough in the head to make your vision go wonky, you'll be stumbling about, much like the crack effect. Besides, it's already coded.

                    I've always thought that helmets shouldn't shatter, anyway, that once you've bought one, you should keep it throughout that spawn, and that a charged blackjack hit should be required to KO you. But doing things this way, with the first charged hit disorienting, and the second being required for a KO would probably help cut down on the guard-thief confrontation some. If a thief has to hit a guard twice, and if after the first hit the guard is obviously going to be aware of the thief's presence and swinging wildly, that thief is going to think twice before attacking that guard.
                    I think you guys are on to something here ...

                    In Thief, there were a few guards that had helmets, and they could not be KO'd.

                    Making the helmet more "powerful" is an excellent idea (and I agree that they shouldn't "shatter"), but the cost would have to be inflated to match, possibly as much as 3 times their current cost.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LaughingRat
                      You get hit hard enough in the head to make your vision go wonky, you'll be stumbling about, much like the crack effect. Besides, it's already coded.

                      I've always thought that helmets shouldn't shatter, anyway, that once you've bought one, you should keep it throughout that spawn, and that a charged blackjack hit should be required to KO you. But doing things this way, with the first charged hit disorienting, and the second being required for a KO would probably help cut down on the guard-thief confrontation some. If a thief has to hit a guard twice, and if after the first hit the guard is obviously going to be aware of the thief's presence and swinging wildly, that thief is going to think twice before attacking that guard.
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                      • #12
                        Yeah, the helmet could just be a different type that cost more maybe.
                        I was thinking it would be really cool if there was visual distortion for the guards when they get hit. It could use the code from the crack without the green tint as you say, but maybe also the code from the flashbomb with the white replaced with black. Basically there is no point in having '5 minutes after a thief KO's a guard - a new guard spawns'.
                        I don't know if anyone, who plays this either as a thief or guard, thinks it is good when the thief team win by KOing all the guards, but I hate it. The thieves should fail the mission if they take out all the guards.
                        The thieves need weapons that disable the guards, otherwise it's a deathmatch.
                        The reviving of stunned friends would be good too. Just keep frobbing a stunned fellow guard to bring him round faster. With his vision fading in slowly and the wobbling effect subsiding.
                        So basically i want to have real life KO's where the devide between being KOed and not is less definate.[/u]

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                        • #13
                          hmm i suppose these ideas could all be used if you consider that maybe there could be a few different types of helmet....

                          1. a mere chain mesh(KO'ed with 1 fully charged up hit)(40 loot)
                          2. a skull cap(shatters after 1 full charged up hit, but hit will not KO)(60 loot)
                          3. full face helmet(cannot shatter)(150 loot, give or take)

                          the chain could be bought along with the skull cap for a little added protection and the full helmet wouldn't need it seeing that it is indestructable

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Errblah
                            hmm i suppose these ideas could all be used if you consider that maybe there could be a few different types of helmet....

                            1. a mere chain mesh(KO'ed with 1 fully charged up hit)(40 loot)
                            2. a skull cap(shatters after 1 full charged up hit, but hit will not KO)(60 loot)
                            3. full face helmet(cannot shatter)(150 loot, give or take)

                            the chain could be bought along with the skull cap for a little added protection and the full helmet wouldn't need it seeing that it is indestructable
                            Great, let's just use BH... :roll:

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LaughingRat
                              <snip>

                              Good idea LR. Keeping the helmet would be nice.

                              I would, however, like to see the helmet be free for guards, and let thieves get a set of lockpicks for free.
                              Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
                              "Dream is Destiny"
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