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  • AI wake-up suggestions/opinions

    Since the introduction of AI wake up into thievery in the 1.3 patch, personally I’ve heard a huge amount of great ideas and suggestions as well as complaints about how the system operates.
    Many ideas have been put forward, such as the smelling salts item idea, by which human guards require an item to wake-up knocked out guards. As well as many other great ideas.

    The idea of this thread is for people to write up there suggestions and ideas regarding how this should be handled in future patches. The current system of either having frob to wakeup or automatic wakeup on (which is used on the major servers) is quite successful, but I believe that as a side-effect many frustrating situations have been created.

    For example: with frob to wakeup AI's BJ'ed can be immediately woken up and are ready for action immediately, pretty incredible for a guard that was just beaten unconscious.
    Also with Auto-Wakeup on guards can suddenly materialise in front of you causing much pain, as once again they are ready for action immediately.

    I'm not saying that the current system isn't good, I just think its a little rough around the edges and could do with some finer tuning. Feel free to disagree with me.

    Anyway I would like to encourage people to post there opinions and suggestions about this issue, because I know some of you have some great ideas on the subject.
    .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

  • #2
    I like the idea of guards having to buy something to get back KOd guards, but all one has to do, unless there is a limit, is buy several, get KOd, and the team is set. There would definately have to be a major limit. Good idea though.


    And I also think that guards that just wake up from a KO should have the crack effect or flash effect for about 10-20 seconds. Yes this has been said before, but it's a good idea. This will keep humans from waking up AIs and using them to slaughter thieves or from an AI unsuspectingly popping up in front of a thief.
    Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
    "Dream is Destiny"
    Waking Life

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't take credit for these ideas, they've sprung up from idle talk on the servers and can be attributed to many players.

      For non-frob AI timed wakeup: as suggested above by Curu, a period of around 15 - 20 secs where guards have a crack effect, but less pronounced. Perhaps they could sit up on their haunches for the allotted period, before getting to their feet (fully active once more). I'm not sure if sitting would represent a problem for the models or associated processes, though.

      For frobbable AI wakeup: a period of 20 - 30 secs after the KO in which the AI can't be woken up, because he's still heavily affected by the blow to the head, then the additional period after he's frobbed, as above in the timed wakeup.

      I don't have any opinions either way about the wakeup "equipment".
      Nightmaster,
      .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
      - "until the cat is skinned"

      Comment


      • #4
        Good of you to post the "they can't wake up for at least 20-30 seconds after being KOd b/c of the effect".


        I really like that one too. Keeps guards from running around waking up AI and getting KOd, and so on and so on.
        Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
        "Dream is Destiny"
        Waking Life

        Comment


        • #5
          I think that when an AI wakes up, he is cracked.

          THis keeps him from being "ready for action" immediately, and emulates the actual effect of a blinding headache and disorientation. (belive me, i've been beaten unconcious a few times :lol: )
          "Just off the border of your waking mind there lies another time, where darkness and light are one. As you tread the halls of sanity, you feel so glad to be unable to go beyond. I have a message from another time."

          Comment


          • #6
            Frob wake up is the best way to elimate frontal cs dm thieves.
            Well, maybe not, but that way they wont gain anything but pain from knocking out guards till they die of it.

            Comment


            • #7
              You may be right, Builder - but from where I see it, the onus is on the guards to make sure they don't get taken out easily. That requires discipline learnt from experiences like following a one or a group of thieves into dark areas, leaving objectives unguarded, and going off alone.
              If you're in a group, the CSer may not even take you on in the first place, and if he does you should cut him up in short order and bring back the body of any teammates to a safe place.

              As for the 'crack' effect on wakeup; I don't think people would wake up quivering with green vision. Perhaps a slightly less potent variation would serve the purpose.
              Nightmaster,
              .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
              - "until the cat is skinned"

              Comment


              • #8
                What I'd like to see is less discussion of how to make direct confrontation a viable thief tactic, and more of how to make stealth work well. This was intended to be a game about stealth, trickery and misdirection, after all, and not merely another run-of-the-mill kill-all-the-other team game. If that's all you want out of gameplay, play some other game. There are plenty like that out there.

                That said, I don't think there needs to be any changes to the way it works now. It may be UNREALISTIC to have a frob awakened guard up and ready to fight in no time, but it's certainly going to make a thief who's considering taking on two or more guards at once think twice about it, maybe avoid the situation, and instead get creative about how to get past them, and that's exactly how it should be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Curunir
                  ... guards that just wake up from a KO should have the crack effect or flash effect for about 10-20 seconds. Yes this has been said before, but it's a good idea. This will keep humans from waking up AIs and using them to slaughter thieves or from an AI unsuspectingly popping up in front of a thief.
                  Hmmm , if you consider the time a respawned guard takes to return to the place where he was BJed , 20 seconds isn't enough. I'd say 1 minute rather : the said guard can protect the unconscious body if it's lying in the light , but not if it's laying in deep shadows (that is , in thief-friendly zones like outdoors) : here we have a counter against circlestrafers which also prevents guards from being foolish and shadowslash/firespam all the time.

                  More on the "finer tuning" : it would be interesting to have KO guards switch to "sleeping" state after a while (like 5 minutes) , waking up if hurt , touched (couldn't be moved anymore btw) or hearing any loud noise ; they'd also snore to be noticed by thieves or other guards. Since it's already unrealistic to see Sgt. Flavio jump out of his bed to ask for orders as soon as you frob him , the awakening animation really should be implemented.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On a side note: In the unlikely event a thief is marioed by a guard, should it be possible for his teammates to wake him up?

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                    • #11
                      Give me my PIACSAI!
                      ]V[]V[

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I get your point, Laughing Rat about the ease of frob-wakeup being a game-play orientated issue, making it harder for direct thief assaults and Dm'ing tactics to succeed and etc. However, realism aside i think that game-play would benefit from a few changes that prevent irritating situations such as I described, that effect all thieving styles. A few changes could be made to stop the exploitation of the ease of frob-wakeup, ie. Overly aggressive guarding tactics, which are also against the target game-play of thievery which you described.
                        .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LaughingRat
                          What I'd like to see is less discussion of how to make direct confrontation a viable thief tactic, and more of how to make stealth work well. This was intended to be a game about stealth, trickery and misdirection, after all, and not merely another run-of-the-mill kill-all-the-other team game. If that's all you want out of gameplay, play some other game. There are plenty like that out there.
                          Doesn't this go against my complaint about sword thieves?! weren't your words "Its a valid play style"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oie
                            On a side note: In the unlikely event a thief is marioed by a guard, should it be possible for his teammates to wake him up?
                            No,because when a guard marios a thief, it kills them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Grey Fox
                              No,because when a guard marios a thief, it kills them.
                              But why is this different than guards being marioed? Is there some practical reason behind this double-standard?

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