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Preventing the elimination of guards

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  • Preventing the elimination of guards

    I'm talking about preventing thieves from winning by killing/KOing all guards, or by killing/KOing most guards and then looting the seriously under-guarded map.

    This idea doesn't involve making blackjacking any harder.
    I just need to know if thieves winning by elimination of guards is by itself needed in TUT.
    1
    Yes
    0.00%
    0
    No
    100.00%
    1

  • #2
    You mean, only a certain number of guards can be KOed or killed at any one time?

    If you KO or kill a certain number of guards, you can't KO or kill any more than that number?

    If you mean it that way, I'm all for it.

    Means the Thief team would have to use more planning in thier tactics.
    "I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory,
    even stopper death - if you aren't as big a bunch
    of dunderheads as I usually have to teach." -- Professor Severus Snape.

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    • #3
      As much as I don't like to see this kind of win, I have to say I'm against preventing it altogether. It's a valid method of winning, and sometimes the only or best option for thieves.

      Comment


      • #4
        Prevent - no, make it harder for the thieves to eliminate guards - yes.
        GerbilSong gave Jimmy some unnecessary ventilation.

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        • #5
          It was allready attempted to make it so that thieves can't win by guard elimination by having guards wake up after a period of time... this resulted in guards running around the map without fear for their lives, since they couldn't possibly lose anyway. So no, I'm against this idea.

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          • #6
            Taffergirl - I'm not in favor of artificial limitations (aka. you can only KO 60% of guards), but my idea will make it much harder to have most/all of the guard team KOed/killed.

            Jimmy - By prevention I mean making it significantly harder, but not impossible.

            LR - You say that eliminating the guard team SHOULD be a valid way of winning?
            Could you give me an example of a situation where elimination is the only/best way of winning for thieves?

            Thanks for the replies

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            • #7
              V12US - I've taken in consideration that thieves need some dissuasive powers to prevent guards from just rushing them. At any rate, would you be so kind to point me to some information or documentation about that attempt? It's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for.

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              • #8
                Erm.... what is your idea? :roll:

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Phoebus
                  Taffergirl - I'm not in favor of artificial limitations (aka. you can only KO 60% of guards), but my idea will make it much harder to have most/all of the guard team KOed/killed.
                  What exactly IS your idea, then? You have yet to be specific about what it is.

                  Originally posted by Phoebus
                  LR - You say that eliminating the guard team SHOULD be a valid way of winning?
                  Could you give me an example of a situation where elimination is the only/best way of winning for thieves?
                  Of course it should. A manor house of unconscious guards is far easier to loot than one with alert guards roaming around. It's a far less subtle method of stealing, and would probably result in a much more intensive effort to catch the thieves, since they'd be seen as more dangerous for being so violent, but this is NOT a roleplaying game.

                  As far as the examples you've requested, the one that springs most readily to mind is one where very little time is left to complete objectives with almost no progress made in doing so, and only a guard or two left. There are many others, I'm sure various members of the community could add dozens.

                  At the core of my opinion, though, is a desire NOT to see this become a completely one-dimensional game, with only one successful method of winning a round.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My idea is currently of no consequence.
                    The reason I created this thread is just to know if the goal I've trying to achieve is wanted in the TOT community, that is, making guard team elimination an unlikely event.
                    I see no reason to write a long post just for it to be shut down by an 'common-sense' one-liner.

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                    • #11
                      I do not like the idea of elminating the ability of thieves to Kill/KO all guards (unless prevented specifically by the mapper) for reasons already stated above. However, I would also like to see encouraged the objective oriented aspet the game that helps set it apart. To that end, I will add a couple of suggestions that I think are in the spirit of the poll:

                      1) The elmination of all guards does not automatically give the the thieves a win. Instead, they are given a specified amount of time to complete the objectives.

                      2) If they do not achieve the objectives in that time, the game ends in a draw.

                      Numerous details need to be worked out, but I see this as a possible framework.
                      Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
                      Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Phoebus
                        V12US - I've taken in consideration that thieves need some dissuasive powers to prevent guards from just rushing them. At any rate, would you be so kind to point me to some information or documentation about that attempt? It's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for.
                        Well, if you make a new server, it's the standard server settings for KO'd guards to autowake-up as AI after 5 minutes. This sorta gave guards infinite lives and loadouts, and they went on firebolt spree's since when the thieves KO'd them, they'd get all of their money back anyway.

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                        • #13
                          I too don't like the idea of limiting the way thieves or guards can win a map. Didn't we learn after the release of 1.3 that it just isn't a good idea?
                          Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
                          "Dream is Destiny"
                          Waking Life

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LaughingRat
                            Originally posted by Phoebus
                            LR - You say that eliminating the guard team SHOULD be a valid way of winning?
                            Could you give me an example of a situation where elimination is the only/best way of winning for thieves?
                            Of course it should. A manor house of unconscious guards is far easier to loot than one with alert guards roaming around. It's a far less subtle method of stealing, and would probably result in a much more intensive effort to catch the thieves, since they'd be seen as more dangerous for being so violent, but this is NOT a roleplaying game.

                            As far as the examples you've requested, the one that springs most readily to mind is one where very little time is left to complete objectives with almost no progress made in doing so, and only a guard or two left. There are many others, I'm sure various members of the community could add dozens.

                            At the core of my opinion, though, is a desire NOT to see this become a completely one-dimensional game, with only one successful method of winning a round.
                            LaughingRat: I'm confused.

                            Did you not say that winning through the process of elimination of guards is a bad thing, in another post?

                            I still haven't voted yet, because I still don't know what idea is being presented.
                            "I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory,
                            even stopper death - if you aren't as big a bunch
                            of dunderheads as I usually have to teach." -- Professor Severus Snape.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Taffergirl
                              LaughingRat: I'm confused.

                              Did you not say that winning through the process of elimination of guards is a bad thing, in another post?

                              I still haven't voted yet, because I still don't know what idea is being presented.
                              I admit to some internal inconsistency here. I don't LIKE to see a guard elimination win, but I don't see it as being invalid, or needing to be eliminated. My personal preference is for an objective win. An elimination win leaves me feeling... unfulfilled, I guess, regardless of which team I'm on.

                              Despite this personal preference, though, I think it's a bad thing for the game overall to limit the choices of playstyle in such a way that only one method of play can be successful. That's not interesting, that's just stagnant.

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