Fire Arrows

[Grank]

I've played recently where guards just spam the fire arrows. I think there should be a limit on the amount guards should be able to buy maybe 2 or 3. The thieves are limited to the amount of invis and flashbombs they can buy so why shouldn't the guards? I think there should be a longer delay between the times they can fire the fire arrow too.

I don't see how this would interfer with the balance. In fact it will encourage those guards to explore other means to kill a thief rather than firing off 4 or 5 fire arrows in a row.

If this isn't done then I'd like to suggest the limit on flashes and invis be lifted for thieves just to make things more even. If i'm going to be fire bolted to hell I should at least have the ability to flash that guard to hell.

[LaughingRat]

The limit on fire bolts isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't deal with the issue of "flametagging". Here's an alternate suggestion:

First, fire does damage to all guards, whethet they fired the fire bolt or not, and regardless of friendly fire settings. Second, any guard that get lit on fire has all the firebolts he's carrying detonate, doing the initial damage for a direct hit directly to him, and the splash damage to him and any other guard caught in the blast radius (which should be reduced, to keep this from getting out of hand).

Possibly tagbolts could could ignite, too.

[BrokenArts]

Makes sense to me.

[WildBill]

One difference I see is that firebolts are rather easy to avoid, while an invis and catfall combination makes a thief literally undetectable unless they're leaving bloody footprints. I have no problem with guards getting lots of firebolts, or even firespamming for that matter, it's a valid tactic.

[WildBill]

The limit on fire bolts isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't deal with the issue of "flametagging". Here's an alternate suggestion:

First, fire does damage to all guards, whethet they fired the fire bolt or not, and regardless of friendly fire settings. Second, any guard that get lit on fire has all the firebolts he's carrying detonate, doing the initial damage for a direct hit directly to him, and the splash damage to him and any other guard caught in the blast radius (which should be reduced, to keep this from getting out of hand).

Possibly tagbolts could could ignite, too.

This creates some terrible possibilities for both abuse and newer players literally destroying an entire team. Flametagging is a bit lame, and needs to be fixed somehow, but I don't that's the solution. I'd suggest having the fire burn guards for a very short period of time, maybe just a second or two, and perhaps do more a bit more damage.

[Grank]

One difference I see is that firebolts are rather easy to avoid, while an invis and catfall combination makes a thief literally undetectable unless they're leaving bloody footprints. I have no problem with guards getting lots of firebolts, or even firespamming for that matter, it's a valid tactic.

Yes 1 firebolt is but when you have a guard spamming a bunch it is hard to avoid. I see your point with invis and cat so maybe just make no limit to flashbombs as they are a good counter to being fire spammed.

[WildBill]

Yes 1 firebolt is but when you have a guard spamming a bunch it is hard to avoid. I see your point with invis and cat so maybe just make no limit to flashbombs as they are a good counter to being fire spammed.

I actually have found avoiding firebolts and firespamming much easier since I've started ghosting. Regardless, no limit on flashbombs makes sense, although I personally can't concieve of a thief wanting to buy more than three.

[Grank]

Yes 1 firebolt is but when you have a guard spamming a bunch it is hard to avoid. I see your point with invis and cat so maybe just make no limit to flashbombs as they are a good counter to being fire spammed.

I actually have found avoiding firebolts and firespamming much easier since I've started ghosting. Regardless, no limit on flashbombs makes sense, although I personally can't concieve of a thief wanting to buy more than three.

I would have thought the same thing about fire bolts. :roll:

[Occam]

I agree that something must be done on this issue. I agree that damage should be dealt to flaming guards, and I also like darkbills idea of decreasing the amount of time that guards burn. I still think it would be funny if flaming players had a "run in a random direction" effect, similar to what happens with crack arrows. Maybe include an appropriate sound file too.
*guard hiding in the corner of alfonsos kitchen*
*thief enters kitchen*
*guard firebolts thief*
Thief: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHPUTITOUTPUTITOU TPUTITOUT
*thief runs in circles for a few seconds, and bumps into the guard*
Guard: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHPUTITOUTPUTITOU TPUTITOUT

=)

[-=V12US=-]

On the topic of firebolts, I have another suggestion.

How about we make the firebolt just an ordinary bolt? No lame fireball shooting through the sky, slow as hell, but just an ordinary (tag) bolt being fired.

To balance it out, the firebolt wouldn't explode imediately as it hit a surface, but instead it would act like a tag bolt which explodes into a shower of flame after three seconds or so. Optionally, gravity could be increased on the bolt, to reduce the amount of range this method would add to the bolt.

Opinions?

[WildBill]

On the topic of firebolts, I have another suggestion.

How about we make the firebolt just an ordinary bolt? No lame fireball shooting through the sky, slow as hell, but just an ordinary (tag) bolt being fired.

To balance it out, the firebolt wouldn't explode imediately as it hit a surface, but instead it would act like a tag bolt which explodes into a shower of flame after three seconds or so. Optionally, gravity could be increased on the bolt, to reduce the amount of range this method would add to the bolt.

Opinions?

That wouldn't be nearly as useful to guards, as firebolts are mainly used for finding and tagging thieves when you only have a general idea where they are. It would also make it much harder for thieves to dodge them or avoid their splash damage. Their slow speed and obvious approach are what balances their incredible usefulness to guards. So, if you didn't figure it out already, I don't like that idea. ^_^

[BobTheDog]

I second (or something around that number) the 3 bolt limit idea.

[Slappy]

Firebolts are weak for what they cost. I don't see why they need to be limited, since a guard who spends all his money on them is actually doing the thieves' a favor..

That being said, firebolts are the best thing in some situations. Like when a thief is running at you, and drinks an invis. You'd best shoot a firebolt right in front of you, unless you like being BJ'ed by an invis thief.

A thief can *carry* lots of invis pots, you just can't buy that many - but you can pick them up. If a guard dropped his firebolts for others to pick up, then limiting the # you can buy might make sense.

Flashbombs are one of the best items in the game (incapacitates multiple opponents, can be used while having other weapons ready), so they need to be limited.

Also, I'd gladly trade firebolts for crack arrows. Crack arrows cost half as much, and also incapacitate multiple opponents. They have no counter. A firebolt, while it *hits* multiple thieves, is easily extinguished by a water arrow that comes standard in every thief loadout.

In order to be worth 100 loot, firebolts need to have a crack-like effect - the burning victim should lose control and vision while on fire. THEN you could complain about em But right now, firebolts are more or less a waste of money.

[Omega]

[LaughingRat]

Firebolts are weak for what they cost. I don't see why they need to be limited, since a guard who spends all his money on them is actually doing the thieves' a favor..

...says the newest member of the fire bolt spamming all-guard guild....

Also, I'd gladly trade firebolts for crack arrows. Crack arrows cost half as much, and also incapacitate multiple opponents. They have no counter. A firebolt, while it *hits* multiple thieves, is easily extinguished by a water arrow that comes standard in every thief loadout.

Ummm... no. Crack arrows have a VERY obvious counter, wich is not to get hit by them. They're a direct hit only weapon, where a firebolt tags EVERYONE in it's blast radius automatically, and THROUGH WALLS, no accuracy required. The claim that crack arrows affect multiple opponents COULD be seen as accurate, but assuming it hits its initial target, the supposed additional targets have to be daft enough to run into it themselves. Not really a valid claim for it affecting multiple targets.

In order to be worth 100 loot, firebolts need to have a crack-like effect - the burning victim should lose control and vision while on fire. THEN you could complain about em But right now, firebolts are more or less a waste of money.

Firebolts are WELL worth the 100 they cost now, provided you don't mistake them for a main weapon. The fact that they'll expose any thief in about a 20 ft radius makes them QUITE powerful for that purpose and requires the thief to slow down by drawing a water arrow to counter it, or continue to take damage and remain visible to the pursuing guard.