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  • BEGGING!

    My first posting... and probably my last considering i'll just get out all of it here... This is an EXCELLENT mod... In most aspects it does justice to the great great game that it was based upon. However at the moment i have 2 main problems. 1. I was going to e-mail you guys and BEG you to put in the killing knocked out guards... But then i heard it was removed because people abusing it... I believe this was a great game feature and shouldn't be scrapped entirely. It was one of my favorite features from the original thief games... My suggestion would be to make it a feature in the options so it could be turned off in multiplayer games and such. 2. Has to be the blackjack KO's... supposed to be silent... Too many times have i knocked out a guard and am quickly "unnecessarily ventilated" by 50 crossbow arrows, even if i run. Guards from across the level come running with flares. At the very least make it kinda silent... Like only people VERY close will hear it. Well... those are my only 2 problems... Try to remember that considering i only have 2 requests that there are thousands of other things i DIDN'T complain about... Meaning you guys did a great job. Also remember.. This isn't to be read in an angry tone (begging remember?) lol. Thanks for the great mod.. And thanks ahead of time if you decide to change these problems... otherwise.... :cry: lol
    Rosebud frozen peas... They're filled with country goodness and green pea-ness... Wait that's terrible! (walks out) (walks back in and grabs some peas) just a handful for the road...

  • #2
    Welcome to the TUT community Hef.

    About your first request: I believe you answered your own question. KOing a guard is easy, Flash/KO a guard is easier, invis/KO a guard is even easier, catfall/invis/KO a guard is a piece of cake. I believe you can see where this goes right?

    About the second: Perhaps you are right, but don't forget that many times thieves try to scare human guards by hitting the BJ on the ground. The smaller sound radius though is a good thought. Personally I would like to see this:

    When a thief KOs a guard and doesn't catch him instantly before he falls, the guard makes a hell of a noise by falling. If he catches him before he hits the floor then its all silent and ok.
    I Need Training!

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    • #3
      As a newbie myself, I agree with the smaller sound radius. In my admitedly very short experience, I have found that KOing a gaurd is rarely worth it

      Also thanks to the Judge for trying to teach me the ways of thievery and the encouragement (I'm Leviathan when I play, confusing eh?)
      "Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!"

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      • #4
        Hi man! Welcome to you too! Don't worry, from what I've seen you are learning pretty fast. In a few weeks you'll master everything. Just keep practicing!
        I Need Training!

        Comment


        • #5
          Well.. Sounds good to me.. But i'd still like to see killing KO'd guards by throwing them in water or fire (If at least for the realism..... or fun... lol.. maybe a mutator or something so people can just use it if they're playing around?) and it definitly needs at least the smaller sound radius... I like the idea of having to catch the guard too... Of course if you're playing on the internet with slow connection ..... i'm sure you can see where i'm going... hehehe. Hmmm... and now that i think about it... I'd also like to see items on guards belts (for pickpocketing purposes) such as keys and small bags of coins. I think this would add to the excitement... Having to sneak close to a guard to steal from him would be a thrill. Of course i can see the problem with this... What about human guards? It would probably be difficult to set that up (of course i don't know cause i have NO experience what-so-ever with coding) but if it wasn't then it would probably be nearly impossible to steal from them. But of course this is a suggestion from the original thief games :grin: .. Perhaps it could be set up so items only appear on AI guards... since you can only pickpocket from an unalert guard (and human guards are always alert) But i think this is a very minor thing compared to my other previous suggestions.. just thought it would be fun to have.
          Rosebud frozen peas... They're filled with country goodness and green pea-ness... Wait that's terrible! (walks out) (walks back in and grabs some peas) just a handful for the road...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hef
            Well.. Sounds good to me.. But i'd still like to see killing KO'd guards by throwing them in water or fire

            actually..


            Depends on how and where you throw them. most guards ca nget stuck inside a fireplace when they respawn, and therefore dying instantly. Just 5 minute or so wait before it hapens. enough time for you to get away bofre the death scream alerts others.

            As for water, you have ot be good., I've killed Ghostly too many times ot count by throwing the bodiesthat others KO inot the uderwater sewers in Warehouse, that when inhabited, they drown :twisted:
            "Just off the border of your waking mind there lies another time, where darkness and light are one. As you tread the halls of sanity, you feel so glad to be unable to go beyond. I have a message from another time."

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            • #7
              another thing i like about killing KO'd guards is that it gives the other guards a good incentive to hurry over if they hear a KO... that way they could stop the thief from taking out their ally... it would be hard to sneak off with the body... so i don't really see the problem with having it.
              Rosebud frozen peas... They're filled with country goodness and green pea-ness... Wait that's terrible! (walks out) (walks back in and grabs some peas) just a handful for the road...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hef
                another thing i like about killing KO'd guards is that it gives the other guards a good incentive to hurry over if they hear a KO... that way they could stop the thief from taking out their ally... it would be hard to sneak off with the body... so i don't really see the problem with having it.
                I thought guards hurrying over at the sound of a KO was something you hated? In fact, didn't you start a poll about making the blackjack quieter or silent?

                In any event, allowing killing of unconscious guards is a very poor idea for balance. In early versions of the game, KO'd guards didn't wake up at all, turning the blackjack into a one-shot kill weapon. If you allow KO'd guards to be killed, that just brings that unbalancing element back to the game, as there'd never be a reason not to kill an unconscious guard, and forces a thief to decide whether a given KO is really worth it or not.

                Why would the devs want to undo something they spent so much time fixing in the first place?

                Comment


                • #9
                  well... ok... I agree having BOTH silent b/j ko's AND killing KO'd guards would be bad for balance, i'm just saying that at the moment it's practically pointless to KO a guard because he will always wake up, and it immediatly gives away your position to half the guards on the level.
                  Rosebud frozen peas... They're filled with country goodness and green pea-ness... Wait that's terrible! (walks out) (walks back in and grabs some peas) just a handful for the road...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    not always :
                    1. KO AI guard
                    2. if wakeonfrob is off, they must wake 'em up
                    3. As a defense :
                    3a. He searches for you in shadows (dumb guard)
                    3b. He chases you
                    4. He is alone

                    you can take KOed guard and hide the body, so that guards won't find the body when they return and firespam the place

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                    • #11
                      In addition to what Korax said, it a KO'd guard's body isn't found, you have a period of time (variable, depending on server setting, but not less than 7 minutes on any major server) during which that guard is gone, the guard force is weakened, and you may be able to slip in and do what you're SUPPOSED to be doing - stealing.

                      That's the objective of the game, not running around whacking all the AI on the head. If you're interested in team elimination games, there are plenty of those around.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I mean, right now there's really no incentive to take out a guard. I think it would make sense to have killing KO'd guards OR quieter b/j KO's because right now it's pretty much "hmm... why should i KO that guard when it will just bring 5 more over here, and he'll wake up shortly?" Perhaps make it so the only way to kill a KO'd guard would be with water or fire. The thief would have to be able to sneak past the other guards to the nearest source of water or fire (which can sometimes be quite far) and carrying the body makes them VERY visible, and since guards come running when you knock someone out it would make it very difficult (but also very rewarding) to get the guard's body out of there.
                        Rosebud frozen peas... They're filled with country goodness and green pea-ness... Wait that's terrible! (walks out) (walks back in and grabs some peas) just a handful for the road...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sure there's incentive to take out a guard. If he's standing in your way of getting an objective, sneak up, KO him, grab the objective, run.

                          You also seem to be ignoring the TEAMPLAY possibilites here:

                          Taffer1: Bunch of guards around the [objective]. Can't get to it without being killed.

                          Taffer2: OK, I'll KO one of these over here, and they'll all come running, leaving you clear....

                          See, it's a TEAM game.

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                          • #14
                            well.. i'm talking more about single player where as of yet there is no thief AI (because it probably would be impossible to code) and you have no team to work with. Sure in multiplayer this game is great, and all the options are suited as such... But for SP it's more difficult because you have to do everything yourself. Perhaps make my suggestions options for SP only? You have to think about people who don't play multi very much due to slow connections such as 56k (like me ) .
                            Rosebud frozen peas... They're filled with country goodness and green pea-ness... Wait that's terrible! (walks out) (walks back in and grabs some peas) just a handful for the road...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Actually, the AI are pretty easy to defeat once you get used to them. I have a demo somewhere where I kill all the AI in Aquatone with only the sword, nothing else except a vine arrow and lockpicks.

                              KOing is even easier.


                              I'm not even half as skilled at forcefully removing the AI as some of the players. It's just that I know the AI.
                              Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

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