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  • Do you see this as an issue?

    Today CrouchingDork rushed the apartments on Spider and had entered them in less than 90 seconds. In under 2 minutes he had 800 loot and the grail. Needless to say the thieves won.

    As you would expect, since I'm a guard I'd have "issues" with that. I don't have issues with CrouchingDork but I do think that map is flawed when 3 objectives can be completed in under two minutes.

    I don't think the intent of invisible and speed potions was to make it so the objectives on a map could be completed in under 2 minutes. If you can quaff two speed and two invisibles and get away with hitting three objectives in that time then there is a problem, IMHO.

    Maybe this is part of a larger issue, but on a public server there is NO way a guard team (decided upon just as the game goes live) could possibly defend against that sort of thing. There is no time to plan, there is no time to respond, and what would you respond to if the thief runs by you with an invis/speed/catfall combo?

    I'd suggest having the thieves start two minutes after the guards but then you end up with spawn rape.

    Any suggestions?
    "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

  • #2
    Guards: Rush the keys.

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    • #3
      i suggest the suggestion forum 8)
      I'm not so bad... Once you get to know me.

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      • #4
        I know exactly what he did. If you know how he did it, then you know there is a way to stop it. I also know it leaves him with virtually NO resources to get out the exit.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Yenzarill
          Guards: Rush the keys.
          If I do that then all the AI get BJ'd.
          "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

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          • #6
            I have been playing for several months now and although I have seen a few maps finished in a very short amount of time, many seem to tend towards a longer rather than a shorter game. Being one of the less skilled players I have only a bit of an idea how CDork did Spiders in about two minutes, but most strategies and plans have counter-strategies. If you lose a few AI on Spiders it is no big deal anyway. True balance on a map is very hard to achieve, so I applaud the developers for having maps that do the best they can (considering this is a beta).

            I would be proud if I could do spiders in two minutes AND get out alive. I can understand that it might be frustrating for the opposition, but victory is sweet too!!

            cheers

            mono
            Yenz: "It's only murder if they say stop"
            Mono's wife: "What if they are mute?"
            Yenz: "There are internationally recognized hand signals for 'stop killing me you bastard!'"

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            • #7
              Additional note here, the map can't be finished that fast by one person. Dork got the loot and grail objectives in that time. Someone else has to get the switches. And the loot objective can fail in the apartments, because 800 doesn't always spawn there.

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              • #8
                bad guarding i'd say
                http://profiles.myspace.com/users/7360475
                -=:ToB:=- / :]eDe[: Site: www.endarkend.net
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DarkProject
                  bad guarding i'd say
                  sorry, your wrong. I could do the same with the top guards around.
                  This is true ... the rushing isn't really nice ... allthough i have to say lately i'm not doing something else I rush spider myself.

                  But i agree with you. Something must be done about that. It's ... not fun for guards. It's the same as folly.
                  On demand this signature has been changed. I hope nobody was insulted or got harmed due to my signature. If this is the case, I'm fully responsible for the harm that was done. Do you feel harmed or you simply want a listening ear?

                  Call 0900-PHAE

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                  • #10
                    well like someone mentioned...the guards can rush the keys....even easier for than the rush to the keys than for the thief
                    http://profiles.myspace.com/users/7360475
                    -=:ToB:=- / :]eDe[: Site: www.endarkend.net
                    -=:ToB:=-Forums: www.endarkend.net/phpbb/
                    -=:ToB:=-PayingSins (TUT MAP)- http://www.endarkend.net/downloads/m...oB_Payback.zip

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                    • #11
                      Speed potions could be turned off for the first 20 seconds or so of the map. That should give guards plenty of time, and would prevent objective rushes on maps such as Folly.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MrEricSir
                        Speed potions could be turned off for the first 20 seconds or so of the map. That should give guards plenty of time, and would prevent objective rushes on maps such as Folly.
                        but you don't even need speed potions for folly! :lol:
                        http://profiles.myspace.com/users/7360475
                        -=:ToB:=- / :]eDe[: Site: www.endarkend.net
                        -=:ToB:=-Forums: www.endarkend.net/phpbb/
                        -=:ToB:=-PayingSins (TUT MAP)- http://www.endarkend.net/downloads/m...oB_Payback.zip

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MrEricSir
                          Speed potions could be turned off for the first 20 seconds or so of the map. That should give guards plenty of time, and would prevent objective rushes on maps such as Folly.
                          Wrong. In my loadouts speed potions don't exist. I do it all the natural way. Just running This would not help for guard imo.
                          On demand this signature has been changed. I hope nobody was insulted or got harmed due to my signature. If this is the case, I'm fully responsible for the harm that was done. Do you feel harmed or you simply want a listening ear?

                          Call 0900-PHAE

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                          • #14
                            For the record, I never used any speed pots during the entire course of the game. Like Phae, they're not even in my loadout.

                            Gerb, there are PLENTY of good gaurd strategies for that level.

                            1. Stay by the doors while other gaurds bring AI.
                            2. Gaurd a key.
                            3. Put a whistler by the corridor.
                            4. Watch the doors, I lockpicked that door, opened and closed it with no gaurds even noticing... they were too busy flamespamming the corridor.
                            5. Gaurd the apartments period. Once I had the key, I only saw 1 AI which I flashed and I was in.
                            The only constant is change.
                            (And I wouldn't have it any other way.)

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                            • #15
                              CD:

                              The fact you nabbed a key and cleaned out the apartments in less than 2 minutes without the speed potions actually makes matters worse. I was actually sending AI up to the apartments at that time (which I thought I was supposed to be doing).

                              I really don't see that tactic as any different than rushing a spawn. It's something that can only happen in the first few seconds of a game when the other team hasn't had any time to prepare.

                              I could see trying this against a team, but on a public server (often full of noobies) it takes the guards two minutes just to figure out who is doing what and where. It makes the play on a public server lame when this sort of thing happens because a single thief can win the game virtually without the use of teammates whereas the guards have to have all their team on the same page to avoid it.

                              I'm not sure how to fix something like this, but when major objectives can be snatched in 15 seconds (Folly) before any of the guards even know where anything is then the map is broken, IMHO.
                              "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

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